 sj |
||
|
||
Frequently misspelled/confused names.
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Reinhard Date: 12 Dec 08 - 01:33 PM Dave, Yiddish is a Germanic language, but it is not modern German. Its vocabulary is based on Early and Middle High German. My Yiddish dictionary (Siegmund A. Wolf, Jiddisches Wörterbuch, Hamburg: Buske 1991) translates German 'bei' and 'schön' as Yiddish 'bay' and either 'schen' or 'schein'. Besides, in German the song title would be 'Für mich bist Du schön' or words to that effect. Reinhard |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jack Campin Date: 12 Dec 08 - 10:15 AM Niel Gow not Neil Gow, unless you mean his son Neil Gow Jr., and neither of them to be confused with Niel's son Nathaniel. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 12 Dec 08 - 09:59 AM As to the problems of rendering Yiddish into English, I believe the appropriate orthographic scheme would be German spellings, because Yiddish is a Germanic language, really closely allied to modern day Deutsch. Thus "Bei mir", "schoen" "bist Du", and so on. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:29 AM Don't even get started on how to properly spell Yiddish words (or Hebrew or Russian or Arabic or Chinese, etc.) in English, since those languages aren't customarily written in the same alphabet as English. I've seen "Bai Mir Bistu Schön," "Bei Mir Bist Du Shön," "Bay Mir Bist Du Schein," and probably a dozen other variations on that particular Yiddish song title. One's not really more "right" than another, since (I've been told) Yiddish traditionally was written in the Hebrew alphabet. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Gurney Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:15 AM ...calls it..., I'd... |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Gurney Date: 12 Dec 08 - 12:14 AM The work of scholarship is admirable, but in the interests of colourful English I'll point out that Ukelele and ukulele Accordion and accordeon Shanty and chanty (Work songs) are correct spellings, according to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music. Shanty (the hut) same spelling (Longman Dictionary) On the other hand, I can't find melodeon in the Oxford at all! Were they invented after 1974, when my copy way bought? I also have an idea that Acker Bilk calles it the clarionet, but i'd have to do a lot of research to confirm that, on a LP cover somewhere. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Rowan Date: 11 Dec 08 - 11:10 PM Many times when people are searching for Margret Roadknight they ask for Margaret Roadknight. And, while I think Jim's suggestion and list are valuable, I offer a couple of comments. Didgeridoo (Australian instrument), not didjeridoo, didjeridu, digeridoo, didgeridu, dijeridoo, dijeridu, etc. "didjeridoo, didjeridu, and didgeridu" are all acceptable, as orthography for words of Aboriginal origin can be very flexible and all of these have been used in formal, academic, publications. Shanty (a roughly built, often ramshackle cabin; a shack) While this statement is true it is not complete in the Australian context, where it also, correctly, refers to a (usually maritime) work song. This is where the suggestion of Jim's needs to be accompanied by a bit of experience in cultural variation. I have no interest in "bashing" but the points made above, where "Grey" is correct in some provenances and "Gray" is correct in others, illustrate the need for such experience. My browser (although US in origin) is indicating "Gray" as "incorrect" as I type but, having received a thorough education I can ignore most spellcheckers' recommendations with confidence. I have seen US 'catters quote British and Australian writings where I know the author would not have used US spellings; I've also observed British and Oz writers treat US writings with the same disregard. It irks me but I'm known as a recidivist pedant. While the DT is located in the US it seems reasonable for it to concentrate on US spellings but, if it is to cope with the international searches fluidly it might be helpful to either list, separately, alternate (but individually correct) titles of variants (preferred where the variants are sufficiently different from each other in text and/or provenance) or list all the variations in titles as part of the title where the differences in text and/or provenance are trivial. It seems that both seem to be happening to some extent. Which works most of the time. Cheers, Rowan |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:59 PM When I posted the following: Thus, "I wrote address on the envelope in Minnesota as follows: 4333 South Oak, Minneapolis MN XXXXX," (the XXXXX being the ZIP code, of course.) Of course I meant this: "I wrote his address in Minnesota on the envelope as follows: 4333 South Oak, Minneapolis MN XXXXX," (the XXXXX being the ZIP code, of course.)" Such P.S.: Yes, I know that Sibley is a street name in St. Paul, not Minneapolis. (blush) Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:46 PM As to the postal designations of US states and Canadian provinces, they are NOT abbreviations! They are postal CODES! If they were abbreviations, they would take a period after them. And, being postal codes, not abbreviations, you really shouldn't use them in normal text, as "He moved to MN." No, he moved to Minnesota, and one doesn't even write "He moved to Minneapolis, MN last spring." NO! If the word Minnesota (or another state name) is meant to be a word in context, it should be spelled out. MN should be used for Minnesota ONLY in an address setting, as a code for the Postal Service. Thus, "I wrote address on the envelope in Minnesota as follows: 4333 South Oak, Minneapolis MN XXXXX," (the XXXXX being the ZIP code, of course.) Note, too, there's no comma either before or after the MN where it is used in an address. [/pedant mode] Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Geoff the Duck Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:50 PM Uncle_DaveO - Are we STILL American Bashing, or are we allowed to pack it in, now that Obama is waiting for Bush to have his "Garage Sale", so he can move into the big white shack? Just curious! Quack GtD. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: JohnInKansas Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:39 PM Re a comment above about "case sensitivity:" It would be expected that the older DOS database would not be case sensitive because DOS is NOT CASE SENSITIVE. Almost no DOS programs ever have been case sensitive, with the exception of a few of the last Word Processors that allowed you to "search case sensitive" as an add-in selectable option. Windows usually is case sensitive but there are exceptions. In older Win versions you often found the ability to search in non-sensitive mode (the default) or to manually select "preserve case." (I can't comment on Office 2007 (or Vista) as - for me - no built in search works usefully in any way I can comprehend in either of these.) Another topic: or... how's about this... get a GOOD search engine that will allow FUZZY searches The most common "fuzzy search" method begins with collapsing the search terms to omit all the vowels. There are a few other common "reduction methods" that replace - for example - common word endings (...tion, ing, etc) or ignore them entirely. The problem with this is illustrated by a recent search, in which many 'catters participated, for information on a painting by an artist named "Prinet." Collapsed by Google's fuzzy search, the term actually used by the search engine is "Prnt". Note that Print - and all derivatives thereof such as Printer, Printing, etc - if "endings" are dropped, also collapse to "prnt." And the word "parent" and its derivatives (parenting, parental, etc.) also collapse to fuzzy search "prnt." The Google report thus returns its standard 237,429,714,811 hits, but will only show you the first ~800 (variable depending on some criteria nobody knows). If there are 800 Printers in the world(?) or 800 parents(?) you will NEVER SEE a result for the obscure 19th century artist. Fuzzy search usually "finds more." But when it finds too much, you're back to needing to search within the results (which Google sort of lets you do for some kinds of searches) but doing that successfully means you often have to know what the exact result is - and sometimes exactly where it's located. You're back to needing to "spell it right." For a data base the size of the DT, or maybe even for searching threads here, fuzzy search might be helpful; but it's not really a sure thing. A complicating factor for the DT might be that many of the filenames/records in the database, I believe, still retain their DOS 8-char names which already are - effectively - pre-fuzzified, sometimes in ways not obvious until you actually find them. John |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Dec 08 - 06:38 PM Geoff the Duck, way back in 2001, sagely informed us that: REMEMBER ! Grey is spelt with an E Aluminium contains TWO I's Gaol does not contain either J or I That's true. And equally, Gray is spelled with an A Aluminum contains ONE I Jail does not contain either G or O! Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 11 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM Oh, and "jive" is a type of music or dance. It can also be a verb, but it does not mean "to match or agree with or fit." That's "jibe" -- which has a couple of meanings, none of which have to do with music or dance. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 11 Dec 08 - 05:33 PM To add to your early list, Jim D., it's "a cappella," not "Acapulco." |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Betsy Date: 11 Dec 08 - 04:59 PM Guess who's been billed as Vinegar Butt - true ask him |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: GUEST,Alistair Banfield Date: 11 Dec 08 - 04:30 PM I agree about the misspelled names of Wyndham-Read. The problem is that the record companies themselves are the ones who caused all the confusion. The early records in Australia were often Wyndham-Reid so when one followed the other they continued to misspell the name. In England the Topic LP had it as Reade and the Broadside LP had it as Reed. Martyn always knew how to spell his name but it seems the people putting his records out didn't bother to check with him... |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 23 Jun 02 - 10:41 AM Layuffin muh foowul ayuss awf, Kuhleeyuh! §;- D) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Kaleea Date: 23 Jun 02 - 01:56 AM Gorsh, Jimbo, if'n yew thank thet sum o' un'ns ratchere et th' 'cat caffee cain't spayull rat, thin yew ain't nevur bin t' th' port o' th' kuntree thet ah'm frum! Fortyewnaytlee fer us'nz therz uh thang kallt Dayown Hom Spayulltchekkur whitch yew'unz whut kain't spayull az gud az mee kin go tuh: dubbleyewdubbleyewdubbleyewdowotdayownhomspaylltchekkrudowotkowumm Thet thar wayubsaht orta kut dayown on them thar spayllun boobooz! |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 23 Jun 02 - 01:41 AM Other common misspellings include:
Joni Mitchell [not "Joanie"] Bill D., I'm witchyew! I think misspelling has become epidemic in the US largely because people--including those who write copy for the mass media [and those who supervise them]--don't give a fig if they use a word incorrectly or spell it incorrectly, or pronounce it incorrectly, or all of the above. If we're allowing wishful thinking, here's what I'd like: Mudcat search engine would allow fuzzy searches; then it would correct the misspelled words in thread titles, so as not to perpetuate the errors. SharonA, Maine has been "Me.," at least since the 1950s--back when California was "Cal." and Oregon was "Ore. --before our current postal abbreviations were instituted. Interesting bit of trivia there--that no state besides Mississippi has a "p" in it. As Johnny Carson would have said, "I did not know that." Dicho, I think Quebec is QB. Genie |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Jun 02 - 03:31 AM genie, similarly,one of my peeves is the frequent misspellings of 'singaround'. i've seen it as 'singeround' |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Jun 02 - 12:36 AM Spelchek drives me up the wall. Never use it. And a tip o' the hat to Colic Cotter. I named a daughter Siobhan. Poor girl! Sy-o-bun is about as close as they come. I guess that's why there are few songs about girls with that name, but many about Barbara or Liza Jane. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Genie Date: 12 Jun 02 - 12:25 AM Jim, You said to limit the discussion to proper names and terms that are relevant to folk music. Not sure, from your wording, whether folk music terms that are not proper names would count, but here's one of my pet peeves--thanks to Bill Gates [i.e., Microsoft Word]: "sing-a-long" -- which suggests one is incanting a lengthy ballad The correct hyphenated spelling is "sing-along," meaning, of course, to "sing along [with] others. ["Singalong," without the hyphen is also acceptable.] However, Microsoft Word's Spell Checker program incorrectly 'corrects' you if you spell it correctly, and tells you it is "sing-a-long." Since Word is so widely used, the misspelling has become rampant. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: clansfolk Date: 11 Jun 02 - 07:21 PM always have trouble at the end of a gig deciding if the audience is shouting "More" or "Door" |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Gloredhel Date: 11 Jun 02 - 07:10 PM The standard printed spelling of my name (also a not uncommon word in English-language songs of Irish origin) is Colleen, not coleen, collene, colene, colline, or anything else. And yes, I know this is not the actual spelling in Irish, I'm talking about the way it is spelled in published songs. Some people can misspell anything. As a child, I thought no one could possibly misspell my last name, Carter. How naive I was! |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Joe_F Date: 11 Jun 02 - 06:40 PM Bill Crofut, not Crowfoot. And, on the same tour, Steve Addiss (the capital of Ethiopia is not named for him). This will be a valuable list, but those whose carelessness sends people to it should blush. Look up the ******* name -- especially if you are going to put it in a subject line. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 02 - 07:18 AM Three days short of a year ago, Giac noted that the two-letter abbreviations for states were sometimes incorectly given in the DT, and wondered why AB wasn't selected for Alabama. Here's the answer a year later. It was selected for Alberta, that's why. The system applies to the provinces of Canada as well as to the states. There are only nine, but I can't remember them although I live in Canada. Let's see, ON = Ontario, but what is Quebec? Oh heck, Que. will do. For the states, I can't seem to give up Minn. or Ariz. Much clearer. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently mispelled words. From: Mr Red Date: 11 Jun 02 - 06:49 AM Etymology & lexicon? |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Mr Happy Date: 11 Jun 02 - 05:24 AM though not strictly a misspelling, more a mispronunciation, i recall some years ago at a local ff concert, the compere announced that the next act was 'silly arse' he meant, of course; 'sileas' |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 14 Jun 01 - 05:17 PM To Mary at Giac@Brian's:
HI (tee hee) and thanks for bringing up the postal abbreviation dilemma. The system (or lack thereof) that was used to determine those abbreviations has always puzzled me.
I always think MA stands for Maine when, in fact, it's for Massachusetts and ME, of all things, is for Maine. Likewise, I read MS as Massachusetts instead of the correct state, Mississippi (why couldn't they have named THAT one MP? No other "M" state has a "p" in it!)
I wish, too, that they had named Alabama AB so Alaska could've been AL and Arkansas could've been AK (and drop AR, and the resultant confusion, completely.). But nobody consulted me at the time!
And what did Tenna see? She saw what Arkan saw! SharonA P.S. - The "learn-to-spell-by-trial-and-error" advice seen above sounds a lot like the answer grade-school teachers would give us when we asked how to spell a word: "Look it up." ...and how does one do that if one doesn't know the spelling beforehand????? (trial and error and error and error and frustration and giving up!) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Giac@Brian's Date: 14 Jun 01 - 04:16 PM In notes after songs in the DT, where United States postal abbreviations are used, several are consistently incorrect. Arkansas is AR, not ak Arizona is AZ Alaska is AK Alabama is AL Postal abbreviations and postal codes for the United States were assigned beginning in the upper New England states and going south down the eastern seaboard. Scoot over to the west and go back north, scoot over to the west, go south and repeat. It's not alphabetical, it's geographical. Good thread, I'd wondered how to bring this up (about the mistakes in state abbreviations), and this thread seems to be as good a place as any. Thanks. Mary |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jim Dixon Date: 14 Jun 01 - 11:48 AM Scabby Doug: No, I wasn't being ironic. I was just being mistaken. Apparently I misread my notes. Thanks for the correction. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: pavane Date: 14 Jun 01 - 07:08 AM Good idea. I just searched for plughole and got nothing - the song is actually present as "Dahn the plug'ole" !!!! |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: IanC Date: 14 Jun 01 - 05:53 AM There's a fairly simple technical solution to most of these problems. Allowing an optional SOUNDEX search on our search engines would get over 95% of the names-misspelt problems (at least for English names). It's a very simple algorithm (with a publicly available spec.) developed years ago for genealogy, where different spellings are frequent. I've implemented it once or twice in text searches, but it does obviously need someone to do it.
Cheers! |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: GUEST,Scabby Doug at work Date: 14 Jun 01 - 05:41 AM And "Ewen" MacColl - I think it's "Ewan"... Error corrected in Jim's posting above. Thanks, Scabby Doug. -JoeClone, 14-Jun-01. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: GUEST,Scabby Doug at work Date: 14 Jun 01 - 05:39 AM Can I just check on the Eric Bogel/Bogle thing? Jim Dixon was saying his name was Bogel? ermm I could be wrong here, but I have never ever seen Eric's name spelled as Bogel, and the site on the web that claims to be official has Bogle, and every album cover I've ever seen has Bogle. Was Jim just being ironic and I missed it? Cheers
SD |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:38 PM Something here reminds me of my son: In the time he spends arguing about whether he ought to have to do his homework, he could have done it. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:36 PM Dicho: Wouldn't that be "fotografía"? |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Jun 01 - 09:35 PM Always envied the Spanish. Fotographie, etc., all ph rendered as f. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Bill D Date: 13 Jun 01 - 08:24 PM Martyn said to everyone, "fie, folk, fie" Martyn said to everyone, "who's the fool now?" Martyn said to everyone, "my name's not an easy one" "But searching Google gets it done... Thou hast learned something new...who's the fool now?" |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Bill D Date: 13 Jun 01 - 08:01 PM hmmm....a standard spell-checker won't help one with that name the FIRST time, but you can add it, once you know it.... and, a good WWW search engine is one gigantic spell checker! If you enter several versions of a word, of combination of words, you are VERY likely to discover the most commonly accepted version! This does require a bit of creative effort with Martyn's name, I admit I got no hits with Martin Windham-Reed and Martin Wyndam-Reed....but 2 with Martin Wyndham-Read (leading me to think that I am close, but there should be more...) but one of the mis-spelled ones at FocalPoint gives links to the performer's websites, and LO! a list with the correct spelling total time..3 minutes... yep...that's a lot of trouble, easier to just post randomly and wait for corrections from pedants like me..*grin* |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Jun 01 - 07:41 PM Spell-checkers aren't going to help you spell "Martyn Wyndham-Read" correctly. Anyway, regardless of how much you rail against bad spellers, they will always be with us. |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jun 01 - 07:31 PM I'm just ribbin' ya Bill... like I've never made a "tpyo" in my time! LOL!!!! |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Bill D Date: 13 Jun 01 - 07:28 PM *sigh*...I do 'imporve' with time ...(the money for typing lessons? I spent it on resords, why?) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jun 01 - 07:17 PM 'imporvement'? LOL!! I do know what you mean... and people like that, I simply ignore... |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Bill D Date: 13 Jun 01 - 07:06 PM I don't expect to solve it...but ANY imporvement is better than catering to those who won't even type 'you' in a chat (u no wht I mn?) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jun 01 - 06:18 PM Sure bill, you go right ahead and change the whole human race and make them better spellers... I'm more on your side than you might think... But I'm also less concerned with improving thier lot anymore... So rather than trying to change the world... ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Bill D Date: 13 Jun 01 - 06:07 PM "may as well fix it to compensate as best we can... " ...no, that just encourages and proliferates mis-spellings. If bad spellers (many of whom have genuine problems, though some are just careless) learn that an internet search ONLY gets good results when spelling is correct, maybe they will at least learn to try alternate spellings or use a spell-checker, rather than post sad requests begging someone else to find it for them! The very same search engines and spell checking software is available to everyone, and the guy who answers the request only did what the 'spelling challenged' SHOULD have done. As my ol' daddy used to say, "you shore ain't gonna learn it any younger" |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jun 01 - 06:00 PM I might be thinking of an older, downloaded version... But at any rate, my point that the current search could be a lot fuzzier stands... ;-) |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Jun 01 - 05:52 PM Clinton: It appears to me that a DigiTrad search is NOT case sensitive. At least not when you use the searches available on this web site. If you use the downloaded version, I'm not sure ... |
|
Subject: RE: Frequently misspelled/confused names. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jun 01 - 04:47 PM Mrs. Duck... That's my point... rather than going to all the work of creating threads that lead from misspellings to actually spellings and from hither to yon... we should be addressing the actually problem... That is that the digitrad search engine bites... any search engine anywhere these days allows for wild cards, and/or's, and will return fuzzy results... So a search for Erik eventually returns Eric as well... Hell, I'm shocked and stunned that the digitrad appears to be CASE SENSITIVE?!?!?!?!?! Why the hell is that?!?!?!? People are gonna misspell... we're not gonna change that... may as well fix it to compensate as best we can... ;-) |
| Share Thread: |