Metasongs, songs within songs

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 09:48 AM

Somehow I am reminded of the wandering minstrel, a thing of threads and zatches [biting his lip in consternation at the slip it made], whose name began with X and didn't.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:34 AM

There, I read through all the old posts and Geoff got there just a week ago with 'They don't write them like that Anymore'.
But has no-one mentioned 'The Egg'. Not only words from the songs but the tunes too. Somewhere there's a thread that decodes all the songs -some very obvious, some more obscure.
And how about 'A Wand'ring minstrel I', not song titles, but the tune changes to the style of the song he is singing - sentimental ballad, song of the sea, martial.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: John C. Bunnell
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:35 PM

Forest Lawn - written by Tom Paxton, best known for John Denver's performance per the link - includes passages from "Church in the Wildwood" and "Rock of Ages" (though both involve partially parodied lyrics).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 07:15 PM

THE OLD FIDDLE
Cicely Fox Smith © 1920
In SMALL CRAFT, pp. 91-95
tune by Charlie Ipcar

has the lines
,,,,,,,narrow street
Full of dinky Chinee houses, where the East and West do meet;
"Ranzo, Ranzo, Reuben Ranzo" – came the sound to me
Of a chantey chorus roaring 'bove the roaring of the sea.



thread
The Old Fiddle
thread.cfm?threadid=79690#1448343

Subject: ADD: The Sinner & the Song
From: Newport Boy
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM

A partial metasong is The Sinner & the Song, a gospel song for soloist and chorus by Will Thompson.

THE SINNER AND THE SONG

1 A sinner was wand’ring at eventide,
His tempter was watching close by at his side;
In his heart raged a battle for right against wrong;
But then from the church he hears the sweet song:
Jesus, Lover of my soul,
Let me to Thy bosom fly.

2 He lingered and listened to ev’ry sweet chord,
He remembered the time that he loved the Lord:
Come on! says the tempter, come on with the throng;
But hark! from the church again swells the song:
While the billows near me roll,
While the tempest still is high.

3 O tempter, depart, I have served thee too long.
I fly to the Saviour, He dwells in the song:
O Lord, can it be, that a sinner like me
May find a sweet refuge by coming to Thee?
Other refuge have I none:
Hangs my helpless soul on Thee.

I come, Lord, I come,
Thou’lt forgive the dark past,
And O, receive my soul at last.

Subject: ADD: Hurricane of Reels
From: GUEST,Jiggers
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 09:41 AM

Has anyone mentioned Hurricane of Reels.

HURRICANE OF REELS

I rolled with Roaring Mary and I cuddled Bonnie Kate,
I got drunk with Bonnie Annie, scared The Pigeon On The Gate,
After all these Comely Maidens, with whom I did parade,
I most often took my chances with the darling Sligo Maid.

Tim Moloney took The Bag o’ Spuds, it was A Heavy Load,
Fed them out to Jenny’s Chickens Coming West Along the Road.
The merry Maids of Mitchelstown are missing from the floor,
They’ll be in The New Mown Meadows with The Bucks of Oranmore.

Lord McDonald and Lord Gordon swing the Lasses from Fermoy,
But sure Drowsy Maggie told me that they were The Soldier’s Joy.
I met with Tim Moloney, he was feeling mighty proud,
As the hieland danced the highland with the darling Miss McLeod.

I met The Jolly Tinker, he was singing like a thrush,
And The Lark was in the Morning and The Bird was In The Bush.
After all my great adventures with these maidens great and small,
I settled down and married to the lass from Donegal

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM

Did Bettsy write that? Didn't know that.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 06:14 AM

Vin Garbutt- They don't write them like that anymore     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Jr3_po1LA

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 06:05 AM


THEY DO'NT WRITE THEM LIKE THAT ANY MORE
by Pete Betts

Chorus:
And oh, how we could sing, what fun those nights would bring
Singing for hours on end
Once we found the key - oh what harmony
Those drunken voices could blend
Heart of My Heart, just for a start
Walkin' My Baby Back Home
When it comes to an end let's sing it again
They don't write them like that any more

They don't write them like that anymore    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEW1LJv2ig

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 02:23 AM

From "The Half Door" Irish trad.

She said, "Play up The Shaskeen Reel,
And I will make yeh happy feel."
And turning smart upon her heel,
She lifted down the half door.
I played that tune with grace and style,
With every note she winked and smiled
Until she had my heart beguiled
While dancing on the half door.

Cheers, David

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 03:53 PM

Medley of titles is not, from what it sounds like [I have not looked it up] what I sought. I was looking for songs that mention other songs. Not songs that list songs.

So And the band played Waltzing Matilda, or that song about Kissed her while the guitars played the Bonaparte's Retreat, or Kick the Pope mentioned in the Ould Orangle Flute.

Thanks for the definitions, though!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 03:34 PM

Hmmmm, just looked it up on Wikipedia.
'Songs that refer to themselves or to songwriting'. Even more confused now!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:56 PM

'Medley of titles' is what you are looking for. 'Metasong' is perfectly well explained in the subject heading. 'songs within songs' so presumably not 'song titles within songs' which is what this thread has been filled with. Or not as the case may be!"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 09:49 AM

I didn't realize those were other songs in Dire Straits' song till rereading this thrwad just now. Musta missed that the first time around.

And I was looking for songs that mention other songs. If the word for that isn't metasong, then what is it?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: JHW
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 06:58 AM

More memories. Soon as I saw this title I remembered the song about Long Way To Tipperary being written to claim a bet. Regret I don't know who sang it (nor who wrote it until now) but remember well the Southfield Bar at Girvan where the singing was outstanding. Alas that Bar is now (was) just a B&B, no licence.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:17 PM

The lyric song 'Waly Waly' from the early years of the 18th century was incorporated into the ballad 'Jamie Douglas' (Child 204) some time before 1800, probably by a broadside writer, or it could have been someone like Lord Hailes (James Dalrymple). There was a lot of mixing and matching going on at that time.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Karen Impola
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 02:50 PM

This one's more subtle, as it doesn't refer to the songs *as songs*, but simply incorporates their names into the lyrics:

The Grateful Dead's "Uncle John's Band" mentions several oldtime/American trad songs and tunes. "Buckdancer's Choice" and "A Story the Crow Told Me" are the ones that come to my mind, but there may be more. Uncle John, supposedly, is John Cohen of the New Lost City Ramblers, who Garcia crossed paths with several times in the early 1960's.

Subject: Lyr Add: I HEARD IT FIRST ON THE RADIO (Gaither)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 06:54 PM

I HEARD IT FIRST ON THE RADIO
Words and music by William J. & Gloria Gaither
(As sung by the Gaither Vocal Band on the Homecoming Picnic album)


1. Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so,
And I heard it first on the radio.
This love of God so rich and strong,
Shall be the saints' and angels' song,
And I heard it first on the radio.

2. Amazing grace-- how sweet the sound--
The lost and lonely can be found,
And grace can even save a wretch like me!
No other love could make a way;
No other love my debt could pay.
And I heard it first on the radio.

3. Needing refuge for my soul,
When I had no place to go--
And I heard it first on the radio.
From a life of wasted years,
He gave me peace and calmed my fears,
And I heard it first on the radio.

4. Had I not heard where would I be,
Without this love that lifted me,
When I was lost and nothing else would help?
Just as I was without one plea,
Sweet Jesus came and rescued me--
And I heard it first on the radio.

5. Alas, and did my Savior bleed,
That captive spirits could be freed,
And I heard it first on the radio.
My soul has found a resting place,
Until I meet Him face to face--
And I heard it first on the radio.

6. I love to tell the story true,
And those who know still love it, too;
Oh, what a precious Friend we have in Him!
And when in glory saints will tell,
'Twill be the theme they love so well--
And we heard it first on the radio.


Tag: Na na na na na na na, Na na na na na na na.
And I heard it first on the radio.
Na na na na na na na, Na na na na na na na.
And I heard it first on the radio.
I heard it first on the radio.
And I heard it first on the radio.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 09:50 PM

To the same tune as "Turkey in the Straw" is another song, much more extensively self-referential, called "Old Zip Coon":

Oh, there was a man with a double chin,
Who performed with skill upon a violin,
And he played in time, and he played in tune,
But he never played anything but "Old Zip Coon".
"Old Zip Coon" he played all day,
Till he drove his friends away, etc.

For all we know, the man with the double chin may himself have been old Zip Coon.

Kipling's "Absent Minded Beggar" mentions "Rule Britannia" and "God Save the Queen".

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Ravenheart
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

The way Norma Waterson runs from "Al Bowlly's in Heaven" to "The Very Thought of You" should qualify.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM

It's called "Captain Collins and the Mermaid" and I'm trying to find the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 11:29 AM

And incidentally , Dave Houlden wrote a LOVELY parody of FOUR of Eric Bogles songs in ONE song . PM Trayton to see if there is another print due od Daves WONDERFUL songs .

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 11:27 AM

There was a reference to 'Flowers of the Forest' as a REEL !!!! (June Tabor's Band Played W M ) . It is in fact a lament , written I believe after Culloden , and the mere idea of doing it up tempo would
cause a riot in ANY good pipe band .

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 12:40 AM

Speaking of pedantry,

Wouldn't Bonaparte's Retreat" and one of the sets of words to "Ashokan Farewell" be self-referential songs?

"You have now started to read the sentence you have just finished."

clint

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM

Just to be a bit pedantic: Most of the songs referred to above are not in fact metasongs, but simply references to other songs.

A proper metasong, or song within a song, would be one that is contained, not simply referred to, by another song. And I can only think of one such song, in any genre, by Sir Andrew Lloyd-Webber in the musical Cats, where Gus The Theatre Cat refers to the story of a character he played, and in doing so literally changes song, only to return to his original song after he has finished telling the story.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Burke
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM

Shelley Posen's FA, SOL, LA is about Sacred Harp singing & refers to Wondrous Love, Parting Hand, and Showers of Blessings.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 03:09 PM

I just remembered the song/story that Ed McCurdy did about the teakettle that wanted to sing like people, and when he got the chance he sang Annie Laurie, Lo hear the gentle lark, (a few others I forget) "and several things from Rigoletto. He sang all the songs he had always wanted to sing..." - great story!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Uncle Phil
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 09:47 PM

How about Iris DeMent's song Mama's Opry..

"And we sang Sweet Rose of Sharon Abide with Me,
til I ride The Gospel Ship to Heaven's Jubilee,
on That Great Triumphant Morning My Soul Will Be Free,
My Burdens Will Be Lifted When My Savior's Face I See,
I Don't Want To Get Adjusted To This World Below,
I know He'll Pilot Me When It Comes My Time To Go,
Oh there's nothing in this world that's half as dear to me,
As the sound of my Mama's Opry"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 08:33 PM

Kristen Lems' - '50 Sound
Kate McGarrigle's - Work Song

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:41 PM

What's that song with the chorus that goes "Fanny Adams, Fanny Adams, don't sing 'Fanny Adams'"?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:28 PM

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As the ship pulled away from the quai....

The Band PLayed Waltzing Matilda.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:18 AM

Not sure of the title, but it's a trubute to Maybelle Carter where several of the songs she played are mentioned and then a guitar picks a verse or chorus of the tune. I think Johnny Cash is one of the people singing it.

~S~

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Santa
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:13 AM

Dave (Strawbs) Cousins has "Georgia on your mind" in his tribute to Sandy Denny.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:10 AM

When he tried it again it played Croppies, Lie Down

--The Auld Orange Flute

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 03:17 AM

OOps - clicked Submit by mistake.

You are right, I totally forgot about it, and I can't even remember what it was now!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 03:16 AM

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:35 AM

Looks like pavanne never did get around to this... :-)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:06 AM

I have just turned up a modern and humorous 'song of songs' from my archives. I will transcribe and post it later, if possible.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Burke
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 03:18 PM

Barbara mentioned Shelley Posen's "Fa-Sol-La." The song itself is entirely about a type of music (Sacred Harp) it includes a portion of Showers of Blessings, and I am pretty sure makes internal reference to several more Sacred Harp tunes.

Rick Fielding has also recorded it. He sings it with the Showers of Blessings reference, but leaves out actually singing it. I guess 'cause he could not do a 4 part fuge solo.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 12:20 PM

I wondered as I typed this up (The Piper's Tunes) if it is supposed to be "when back home" instead of "when that home he comes". I copied it as it is written in the songbook.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PIPER'S TUNES
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM

THE PIPER'S TUNES
from Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads

As I rov'd thro' the town to view the pretty lasses,
The old maids with a frown, peeped at me o'er their glasses,
To Cove we will go down, to view the lasses pretty,
And the sailor men also which sets forth all its beauty.

ch. Ritooral-oo-ral-ah, Ritooral-oo-ral-addy,
Ritooral-oo-ral-ah, Ritooral-oo-ral-addy.

There's Captain Burke of Grove, a very famous name, sirs,
He keeps the buck and doe, and hunts the sporting game,
sirs,
He winds the whip and spur, and makes the hunters rattle,
And when that home he comes, he'll surely crack a bottle.

John Blake for to promote, he plays some tunes so merry,
He gave some charming notes, to banish melancholy,
He'll then blow up the pipes, to play the tune "Brave Larry",
You'd laugh until you die to hear "Sweet Paddy Carey".

He'd play the Prussian Wars, the fall of the Boyne Water,
Jeannette and Jeannot and the march of Alexander,
The blooming White Cockade, the Old Brigade is coming,
O'Connell's in for Clare, and All the bells were ringing.

He played the Collen Bawn, the banks of Kitty's Cottage,
The affermoniou jig, called - My Mother's mess of pottage.
The Wexford Rakes in style, and Trip the world before him,
The Sailor's Hornpipe, and Garryowen and Glory.

He played Kitty from Athlone, with Moreen móra Glanna,
Noreen on the road, and the flashy Rakes of Mallow.
Aughrim's overthrow, and the fall of Carrig Castle,
Brave Sarsfield took command at many a famous battle.

He played the Chorus jig, the ancient Ladies' Fancy,
Jack and the Jug of Punch, and the Bonnie highland laddie,
The Ale-house in great glee, with the Glass of brandy
The Roving sporting wheel - My love he is a dandy.

Nora Creena he can play, with all the variations,
The Rambler from Tralee, the De'il among the Tailors,
The Job of journey work, and the Boy she left behind her,
The song of Paddy Whack, and Tally-hi-ho the grinder.

He played up Bob and Joan, with Ju Ju Joice the joker,
The famous jig Tow-row, that was kept for Captain Croker,
The Ball of Ballinafad, and the Banks of Bannow
Plunkett's Moll in the wad, and Shawn O'Deer a'Glana.

He played of Bonaparte, who crossed the Alps in winter,
The Union hornpipe, and the Killinick fox hunters,
The song of Patrick's Day, and the jig of Paddy Carroll,
And each boy will Kiss the Maid behind the whiskey barrel.

So now I'll sing no more, because my song is ended,
If I said anything wrong I hope you're not offended
Of hornpipes, jigs and reels, I'm sure I told you many,
Get up and shake your heels, 'tis better sport than any.
---------

The melody is like "Courtin' in the Kitchen". The words in O Lochlainn's book are written sometimes with lower case letters in the titles throughout the verses, just as I copied it down. I can scan the notation if anyone wants it.

There are tunes mentioned in this song that I would be interested in knowing more about, like Ju Ju Joice the joker.

Alice

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Sourdough
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM

...and in The Yellow Rose of TEsas is:

You can talk about your "Clementine"
And sing of "Aura Lee"
But the Yellow Rose of Texas
Is the only one for me.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 01:54 AM

Along the lines of Lambeth Walk is another "dance" song that names itself...Ballin' the Jack ("And that's what I call Ballin the Jack). And there's not only Tenn. Waltz, but The All New Tennessee Waltz (It's the all new Tenn. Waltz, literally waltzing on air...).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 07:43 PM

Lindy Lou

Bit late, And I am sure that you have spotted same but consider "hymns and Aria's

" We sang "Cwm Rhondda" and "Delila" and they sounded just the same
Saturday was Sunday, Hymns came on a tray
Only half remembered, I wonder What H'll say"

Or again, take the "Trip to Twickenham" ( Well You did )

"So we give him that old bottle
That once held bitter Ale
He started singing "Hymns and Arias", "Land of my Fathers","Ar hud y nos(all through the night)"

For Non SWELCH Catters the rest of the Story is not fit for tender ears
It refers to the lack of Public Toilets at Twickenham, Head Quarters of the English Rugby Union, and how the lads releaved themselves into empty beer bottles
and passed them off as beer to wandering English fans.

To CAMRA members - it prooved the average English upper Class twit can't tell the difference between P*ss and Watneys.

Sorry, 5 pints of Brains S.A.and a shot of "Pussers" have removed my inhibitions.

Thank God it's Friday.

On a more serious note "Willie MacBrides Reply" (DT) takes a nice swipe at " The band Played Walsing Matilda", also by Eric Bogle.

In the spirit of the forum, a pint, if you drink near Cardiff (dialect Kairdif) Or a "Virtual Pint" if you don't live, or visit nearby, to the first Catter to identify the line(s)

Gareth

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 06:48 PM

Another one in the Bodley Library is called 'New song of songs'.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 02:28 PM

Another song that lists many tunes is in Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads, THE PIPER'S TUNES. It is sung to the same tune as COURTIN' IN THE KITCHEN.

There are eleven verses of THE PIPER'S TUNES in O Lochlainn's book. I'll check and see if it is already in the DT or archive before posting them.

Alice Flynn

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Alice in Montana
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 01:56 PM

The Piper of Dundee and the Galway Shawl, previously mentioned, were the first that came to my mind. I haven't been reading the Mudcat very much in the last few months, so I missed this thread when it started. Thanks for bringing it back up, Wolfgang (saw the link in pavane's thread).

Alice Flynn

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Grab
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 12:01 PM

Add another I've just learnt, a recent Tom Paxton one called "GETTING UP EARLY" - a line in the chorus goes "We'd sing 'Mr Tambourine Man' then".

Graham.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:41 AM

A prime example for this type of songs has been found and posted by pavane here: VILIKEN'S MEDLEY.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 07:59 PM

Warren Zevon: [PLAY IT ALL NIGHT LONG]

"Sweet Home Alabama Play that dead band song Turn the speakers up full blast Play it all night long"