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Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums

DigiTrad:
LUMPY TUMS


Naemanson 26 Aug 01 - 10:37 PM
Charley Noble 26 Aug 01 - 10:40 PM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Aug 01 - 08:42 AM
MMario 27 Aug 01 - 08:47 AM
Naemanson 27 Aug 01 - 08:50 AM
Charley Noble 27 Aug 01 - 11:15 AM
Brían 27 Aug 01 - 01:49 PM
MMario 27 Aug 01 - 02:18 PM
Naemanson 27 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM
Brían 27 Aug 01 - 04:10 PM
KathWestra 27 Aug 01 - 04:55 PM
Naemanson 27 Aug 01 - 07:43 PM
Joe_F 27 Aug 01 - 08:22 PM
Charley Noble 27 Aug 01 - 08:56 PM
Joe_F 28 Aug 01 - 07:06 PM
Brían 30 Aug 01 - 04:58 PM
Charley Noble 30 Aug 01 - 05:04 PM
Brían 30 Aug 01 - 06:22 PM
Joe_F 30 Aug 01 - 06:28 PM
MMario 31 Aug 01 - 08:21 AM
Charley Noble 31 Aug 01 - 09:22 AM
John J 31 Aug 01 - 11:41 AM
Joe_F 31 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM
MMario 31 Aug 01 - 09:10 PM
Brían 02 Sep 01 - 04:42 PM
MMario 04 Sep 01 - 01:33 PM
Brían 04 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Sara 04 Sep 01 - 09:20 PM
Brían 13 Sep 01 - 02:00 PM
Joe_F 04 Jul 09 - 10:39 PM
Joe_F 09 Aug 09 - 09:05 PM
Peace 10 Aug 09 - 06:46 PM
Joe_F 10 Aug 09 - 08:17 PM
Compton 11 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM
Jim Dixon 12 Aug 09 - 05:54 PM
Joe_F 28 Dec 09 - 03:55 PM
Herga Kitty 28 Dec 09 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,999 28 Dec 09 - 11:26 PM
GUEST,Steve T 29 Dec 09 - 07:07 AM
Joe_F 20 Jan 10 - 06:30 PM
Joe_F 28 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,Guest David Jones 06 May 10 - 11:39 AM
GUEST 24 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,JJ 25 Apr 13 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,Don Wise 25 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM
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Subject: Lumpy Tums?
From: Naemanson
Date: 26 Aug 01 - 10:37 PM

At the song swap at the Portland Observatory tonight a woman sang a bit of a song she called Lumpy Tums. The chorus goes something like this:

***** ****** gives us our homebrewed ale
****** malt gives our whisky
But oats from dear old Staffordshire
Gives us our lumpy tums.

Charley and Brian were there and may have a better memory about the words. She sang three verses and says there are more.

Anyone got it?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Aug 01 - 10:40 PM

Yah, I want to get the words of this one too.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:42 AM

In the DT.  LUMPY TUMS

No tune, though.  Care to oblige?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: MMario
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:47 AM

that's right, it's still on the missing tune list.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Naemanson
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:50 AM

Charley, do you know who that woman is? The couple she was with seem to be locals. We need to track her down for the Mudcat. This is a job for Sam Cleff, music detective, the man with a nose for treble!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 11:15 AM

Who was that woman? Well, she was blond I'd say, in her mid thirties, a good voice, and was visiting some friends who lived in the neighboring town of Yarmouth whose names I didn't get. Maybe, if we're good they'll show up again. So it goes. Never occured to me to check the DT...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 01:49 PM

I believe that Richard Fewtrell mentioned as supplying the words is the same man she mentioned as the one who taught her. I don't recall their names. I do hope they come back.
Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: MMario
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:18 PM

Brían - why did I have the impression you were in the UK? Looks like Maine is getting quite a contingent of catters!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Naemanson
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM

Yeah, MMario, we're up to our hips in 'catters! Not as good as the UK contingent yet but we are working on it.

Maine state motto: Mudcatters come home!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 04:10 PM

Probably because you find me in all the UK/Ireland threads.
Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: KathWestra
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 04:55 PM

David Jones was singing this around quite a lot about 15 years ago, and had some info. about its origins. I'll see if he remembers anything about it -- haven't heard him sing it in dogs' years.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Naemanson
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 07:43 PM

Thanks, Kath. Please note MMario's note above that this is one of the lost tunes. If you can find it on a tape or record and get it off to MMario that would be wonderful.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:22 PM

I can complete the chorus, anyway:

From barley we get homebrewed ale,
From malt our whisky comes,
But from the oats in Staffordshire
Do come our lumpytums.

I, too, would very much like to know the rest.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:56 PM

Joe, for the full lyrics try the "blue clicky" above which Malcolm so kindly pointed out to us. Of course that doesn't explain "lumpy Tums."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 07:06 PM

Charley: Thanks for pointing that out.

Lumpytums are oatmeal, I believe.

The tune in solfa as I remember it is

SdrdSdrmdr
mflsfmr
mfsfmrdrmdr
Sdmfmrd

(S is sol in the lower octave.)
That's the chorus. The stanzas are a little different.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 04:58 PM

Naem' or Charley, can you get the melody using this solfa thing?

Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 05:04 PM

It takes a braver man than I to try that, Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 06:22 PM

Ooooooo. I think I can do it. I'll print it and maybe have it ready for the next swap.

Brían.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 06:28 PM

I venture to suspect that, in the text given, "breadknock" should be "dreadnought", and "his fateful one" should be "his fateful [or maybe faithful] gun".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 08:21 AM

Joe - can you give me an idea of the time values?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 09:22 AM

Joe, "breadknock" should be "dreadnought", and "his fateful one" should be "his fateful [or maybe faithful] gun" does make more sense. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: John J
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 11:41 AM

What a surpise! I though I was the only person in the world who remembered this song which I last heard about 25 years ago. It was sung by a trio from Staffordshire called Muggins Fancy, who sang in harmony...and bloody good they were too! I was under the impression that they actually wrote it, but I could well be wrong. I can just about remember the tune, and now that I've got the words (I didn't think to check the DT) I'll learn to sing it and perhaps ask that nice Noreen if she write some dots down for you. Coincidently, I was at our local folk club a few months back (The Railway, Heatley, near Lymm, Cheshire....Thursday nights, good beer, good club etc) when a bunch of lads were performing. I recognised one of the as a former Muggins Fancy member and asked if he could remember the words. Unfortunately he couldn't.

John


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM

O.K., here's the tune with dots for continuation of a note:

Stanza:
d..rd.S.drmdr...
f.l.s.m.mrd.r..m
f..ls.m.mrd.r..S
d..rd.S.drmdr...

Chorus:
S. d..rd.S.drmdr.m.
f.l.sfm.r.....mf
s..fm.r.drmdr.S.
d.m.fmr.d.....


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: MMario
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 09:10 PM

Great! I'll work this up and post it tuesday - assuming all h*ll doesn't break loose at work -


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 04:42 PM

Thanks, Joe. those letters and dots really work. I could kick myself for not having my tape recorder with me that night...

Brían


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: MMario
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 01:33 PM

NWC files sent to Joe Offer. Thanks all!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 06:19 PM

Hoo-ray!!!!!!!! Great work everyone.

Brían


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: GUEST,Sara
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 09:20 PM

Hi all, This is the "mystery woman" from the Portland Observatory song swap. I just got home from sea and was amused to see the references to me in this thread! I just dug out the words as written in an Elissa volunteer songbook and noticed that they are ever so slightly different than the ones in the database. Concerning the question of Breadknock, in the version I have the third verse goes:

That Bradnock man, Jim Shaw who slew Ten valient French at Waterloo His nervous arm dealt them their dooms 'Cause he was reared on Lumpy Tums

After consultation with my "Big Road Atlas of Britain" I don't see any place called Bradnock, but there is a town called Bradnop and its even in Staffordshire. Maybe that is what it is supposed to be. I haven't tried the solfa thing, but if there is still any confusion about the tune, I would be happy to help out.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Brían
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 02:00 PM

Well, be there at the next Observatory and let's hear the whole song then!

Brían


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 10:39 PM

Time passes, and the Web now supplies the following recipe for lumpytums:

<<
Strew oatmeal into boiling milk so that it forms into small
lumps. These may be eaten with treacle and butter. Joyce Douglas
describes these as "like tiny, irregular snowballs...releasing a
puther of dry oatmeal when chewed."
>>

I tried it, but the oatmeal did not form lumps. The result was merely an unusually rich bowl of oatmeal (I ordinarily use water with just a little milk). As a American, I used maple syrup in lieu of treacle.

Perhaps *rolled* oats do not do the job?

Note, by the way, that "nervous" is not a mistake. According to the OED, it can mean (indeed, originally meant) "sinewy, muscular; vigorous, strong".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 09:05 PM

Following up my previous query, I bought, at the Harvest Coop in Central Sq., Cambridge (MA), some coarse oatmeal and some whole oats. Neither produced snowballs. Perhaps I did not strew them properly. Or perhaps only Staffordshire oats will do.

It seems remarkably difficult to obtain dishes recommended in songs. A Web search some time ago failed to bring up a restaurant that served groundhog, and I would have to go to Mississippi to order possum & sweet potatoes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 06:46 PM

Groundhog/Woodchuck = Same thing.

PATTIES: Remove meat from bones and grind. Add bread crumbs, onion, salt, pepper, egg, and fat; mix thoroughly. Form into patties; dip into egg; then dip in bread crumbs. Fry in hot fat until brown. Cover with currant jelly sauce and place in slow oven for 1 hour.


WOODCHUK PIE

1 woodchuck, skinned and cleaned
1/4 cup onion
1/4 cup green pepper
1/2 tbsp minced parsley
1 tbsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
4 1/2 tbsp. flour
3 cups broth

Biscuits:
1 cup flour
2 tbsp. baking powder
1/4 tsp. salt
2 tbsp. fat
1/4 cup milk

Cut woodchuck into 2 or 3 pieces. Parboil for 1 hour. Remove meat from bones in large pieces. Add onion, green pepper, parsley, salt, pepper, and flour to the broth and srit until it thickens. If the broth does not measure 3 cups, add water. Add the meat to the broth mixture and stir thoroughly. Pour into baking dish.

For biscuits: sift flour, baking powder, and salt together. Cut in the fat and add the liquid. Stir until the dry ingredients are moist. Roll only enough to make it fit the dish. Place dough on top of meat, put in a hot oven (400 degrees F.) and bake 30 to 40 minutes or until dough is browned. Serves 6-8.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:17 PM

Peace: Yes, I know, now that I am (back) in New England, it's a woodchuck. However, the classic groundhog song is southern. While I lived in Virginia, I just missed a chance to eat some of one. A guy in the commune I belonged to shot one that was robbing our garden & served it out; but I was away on a job.

There is no obvious way to get hold of one in Massachusetts.

In the west, they are commonly called by their scientific name: marmot. My impression is that they are thought of as cute & are not eaten.

My first guess at "srit" was wrong. %^)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums?
From: Compton
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM

Hey up. duck!!
Being a Staffordshire lad with a song in my heart...Lumpy Tums ghas passed merrily into the "Folk Tradition"...but I, like John J have this feeling that its a written song....try talking to His Worship and the Pig...Jeff Parton should know if anyone does!


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Subject: Lyr Add: LUMPY TUMS
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:54 PM

From "Folklore and Songs of the Black Country" by Jon Raven (Wolverhampton: Wolverhampton Folk Song Club, 1965), page 45:


LUMPY TUMS
(Notes & Queries Vol. 5)

Potatoes, they are windy meat,
But fermity it is a treat.
Pudding's good when stuffed with plums,
But let me have some lumpy-tums.

Would you your tender offspring rear
With bodies fit fatigues to bear,
Pamper them not with dainty crums [sic],
But bring them up on lumpy-tums.

That Bradnop man, Jim Shaw, who slew
Ten valiant French at Waterloo,
His nervous arm dealt them their dooms,
'Cause he was reared o' lumpy-tums.

Kind heaven, listen to my prayer,
And grant me while I tarry here—
I ask not wealth's uncounted sums
But health and peace and lumpy-tums.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:55 PM

I got some more advice on Usenet (soc.motss, of all places). It seems that the "oatmeal" called for is actually more like what Americans call oat *flour*, or at any rate contains a fair proportion of fine particles. Oat flour is widely available in the U.S., and I found it at my local supermarket. I tried it this morning, with sure-enough lumpy and quite edible results. It was not clear what the right ratio of milk to flour should be, but I tried 3:1, which is what I use for Quaker Oats (with water & a little milk). The result is a bit thick. I expect I'll try more milk, and mixing some coarse meal in with the flour.

I see from the OED that "treacle" usually means molasses but may also include maple syrup, so my New England treatment is not technically wrong, tho I don't suppose one sees much maple syrup in Staffordshire.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 05:55 PM

I last heard this sung a month ago at Bedworth folk festival, by Jeff Parton (of His Worship and the Pig) and Liz Holland, in their Pits and Pots show about Stoke, Staffordshire and the Potteries.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 11:26 PM

'And some of the words are just gloriously descriptive. No wonder a poet like Philip wants to keep on the books "eye-server" - a hired hand who only works when his boss is looking; "wheelbarrow farmer" for a smallholder and "lumpy tums" for a children's bedtime dish of oatmeal and milk.'

That's from UK site and I'd guess the tum refers to the tummy and the lumpy refers to the oatmeal which adds lumps to the stomach. I'd guess it took the place of milk and cookies today in many places.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST,Steve T
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 07:07 AM

As noted above the song was sung by the excellent Muggins Fancy (Jeff Parton, Dave Bolton, John Haley and Pete Hall) based in Stoke in the 1970s. I think it may have been on their Spendid Congregations tape but I'm sure any of them would provide the tune. Jeff and Dave now perform as His Worship and the Pig


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Jan 10 - 06:30 PM

It occurred to me that perhaps the oatmeal required had to be a mixture of coarse & fine (I do not know the state of the art of grinding in Staffordshire in the early 19th century). So I tried mixing in some coarse oatmeal with the oat flour, and I used a 4:1 ratio of milk to the mixture. The result was somewhat chewier, but there was no "puther of dry oatmeal". As a next experiment, I will try removing the saucepan from the heat immediately after strewing the flour.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

A friend of mine extracted the following recipe:

http://european-culinary-travel.suite101.com/article.cfm/take_a_culinary_tour_of_derbyshire
---------------------------
Derbyshire Oatmeal Porridge Called Lumpy-Tums

The lumpy-tums of Derbyshire are a sort of oatmeal porridge.
They were traditionally made by taking some oatmeal,
squeezing it together slightly by hand then dropping it
into a pan of boiling water. The lumps were then drained
and eaten with milk poured over them. It is ideal for
breakfast on a cold winter's day, or as a milky dessert.
---------------------------

Evidently Derbyshire is not Staffordshire, where, the better to slay Frenchmen, one uses boiling milk. However, I did try squeezing the flour by hand first. That indeed made it lumpier, and I removed the saucepan from the heat immediately; but there was still no puther.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST,Guest David Jones
Date: 06 May 10 - 11:39 AM

I learnt Lumpy Tums from the late Richard Fewtrell and see from an earlier posting that it was found in the Elissa volunteers songbook, this figures as Richard was involved in the restoration of the Elissa. As mentioned, it is also in Songs of the Black Country.
Great recipes, sure I ate something similar in Warwickshire during the 1940s, I survived, but only just.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM

There was a chorus to this originally written by Kevin (Fred) Ford who sang Lumpy Tums with Sheila Beech.

From barley we make home brewed ale
From malt our whisky comes
But from the oats in Staffordshire
Does come our Lumpy Tums

I believe Fred was also responsible for the tune used by the wondferful Muggins Fancy. Incidentally the group also included the equally wonderful Stuart Rushton. Arguably the best singer of the lot!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 05:26 AM

"the wondferful Muggins Fancy" - spot on! A fine bunch of singers and sorely missed, I'd give a lot to hear and see them in action again.

JJ


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lumpy Tums
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 25 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM

Here's a text I exhumed from the then Derby Borough Library, Local History Section, back in 1973/ 74.
Derbyshire Courier, ca. 1875,(Notes & Queries....)

Potatoes they are windy meat
Frumity it is a treat
Pudding's good when stuffed with plums
But let me have my Lumpty-tums

Set the saucepan on the fire
And bring the meal a little higher
When the milk it boils and foams,
That's the fire for lumpty-tums

A poultice made of milk and meal
A hungry stomach soon will heal
When hunger through your bowels roams
It is best cured with lumpty-tums

There's pork and beef and ducks and geese
Flesh, fish and fowl and bread and cheese
You may give me these when supper comes
But I'd rather sup on lumpty-tums

That valiant man John Shaw who slew
Ten of the French at Waterloo
His nerves and arms dealt them their doom
Why? He was raised on lumpty-tums

You remember well Sir Robert OPeel
Who kindly lowered the price of meal
It's a poor look-out at poor folks homes
When there's no meal for lumpty-tums

Let pale-faced ladies sit all day
Their health destroying strong green tea
Its acrid juice their nerves benumbs
But there's no such juice in lumpty-tums

Look at our healthy country girls
Their rosy cheeks and glossy curls
The rosiest cheeks and plumpest limbs
Have the girls that are reared on lumpty-tums

View our labourers, a robust race
Their strong built frames and ruddy face
They've nerves like steel, hearts like drums
Because they were reared on lumpty-tums

Would you your tender offspring rear
With bodies fit fatigues to bear
Pamper them not with dainty crumbs
But give them plenty of lumpty-tums

When the labourer's work for the day is done
He retires to his home with the setting sun
And as he goes he sings and hums
Because he thinks of his lumpty-tums


There you have it. No tune, I'm afraid but have fun!


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