Nostradamus' predictions?

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:28 AM

Oh well then its obviously completely invalid as predictions! Excuse my ignorance - but why did he write it? Did he make a living as a prophet - or was he just a complete nutter?
Still reckon it could arguably be claimed as a divination tool - like a crystal ball from which the mind can create its own pictures. Does it get used as such a tool - and if so with what success?

Kris

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:22 AM

In seven of his several hundred quatrains are years mentioned.

Look e.g. at the first hundred quatrains (with English translation) to see that there is no temporal order.

As for Nostradamus' predictive powers already one of his contemporaries made fun of him with this play of words:

Nostra damus cum falsa damus,
nam fallere nostrum est;
et cum falsa damus,
nil nisi nostra damus

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:21 AM

AFAIK none of Nostradamus' quatrains have dates affixed, except by us poor consumers.

None of this explains the line from the 'Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter' - 'Doe notte buye Beetamacks'...

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:56 AM

How does the Nostrodamus thing work then - is it chronological - ie does it say exactly what year each prediction relates to?
Anyway - I suppose that even proving that it can mean anything and everything doesn't disprove it as a divinatory tool - in fact it makes it even more suitable. Just we seem to be only any good at it after the event.
Carol - I'm sure they listen - they just don't take any notice... c'est la vie. :>)

Kris

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:49 AM

CarolC - it's a problem isn't it? Supposing my childminder's boyfriend had thought to take his dream seriously? What should he have done - after all it was pretty specific dream. What about the "Tower struck by Lightning" card (especially as we thought this is "bollocks" and it obviously had nothing to do with our personal situation). Maybe, if we'd had better memories and read the newspaper a bit more thoroughly re. Bin Laden's recent threat, we'd have remembered the previous attack and put 2 and 2 together. The appalling thing in retrospect after many events, is that certain things do add up and "if only I/we had done this that or the other ..." is part of grieving process.

I think we all just need to be far more aware of each other and ourselves: I still am haunted by (20 years on) by the memory of a colleague at work with whom I'd a brief fling, waving at me from the bus stop as I cycled past - like stop, talk - and I thought "It's cold, it's dark, I just want to go home" and then he went home, turned on the central heating, had an epilectic fit in the bath, and by the time they found him (30 hours later)it took 6 weeks to identify his remains.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:46 AM

Nostradamus is used for retrofitting, that is retrospectively fitting the facts to an ambiguous text. The only interesting thing is how malleable the text and the human mind is.

It is sobering to use older texts about Nostradamus to see how his 'predictions' were explained then. Lets just take the first two verses from Firecats post as examples and just any of my Nostradamus books. I stopped then for the game is too easy.

Earthshaking fire from the world's centre will cause tremors around the New City. Two great immovable powers will war for a long time, the Arethusa will redden a new river. is the 87th quatrain of the 1st centurie and reads in the original as follows:

Ennosigee feu du centre de terre.
Fera trembler au tour de cit‚ neufue:
Deux grands rochiers long temps feront la guerre,
Puis Arethuse rougira nouveau fleuve

In the one Nostradamus book I looked into it was explained as the successful prediction of the 1905(?) San Francisco earthquake. Why? Isn't it obvious that the two big rocks (in this translation it is not 'powers' but rocks) are the tectonic plates? And the fire from the center of the earth is the volcanic activity close to tectonic plates. The fairly new City at that time was of course San Francisco. Arethusa is of course (old Hebrew) Areth, now Erez, that is 'land' USA. You get it?

But he is careful, he considers alternative interpretations. The 'new river' getting red could also mean a communist taking over of the USA after a big earthquake in New York (written in 1982).

Now the next verse:
The garden of the World near the New City, in the road of the hollow mountains. It will be seized and plunged in the tank, forced to drink water poisoned with sulphur.

That is the 49th quatrain in the 10th centurie which goes as follows:
Iardin du monde aupres de cité neufue,
Dans le chemin des montaignes cauees:
Sera saisi & plongé dans la Cuve,
Beuuant par force eaux soulphre enuenimees.

Now what successful prediction was that in 1982? Come on, it's obvious! The three mile island (Harrisburg) near disaster it was. The 'garden of the world' is of course Pennsylvania with its mountains, New York is near with its skyscrapers and the poisoning with sulphur is his expression of the nuclear contamination.

The flexibility of the human mind is what makes these verses to look like predictions. Some of his quatrains have been used for more than half a dozen of successful predictions over the centuries.

Let's make a game, I give you two quatrains and you tell me what it was:

I, 29: Quand le poisson terrestre & aquatique
Par forte vague au grauier sera mis,
Sa forme estrange suaue & horrifique,
Par mes aux meurs bien tost les ennemis.

roughly (translation by the man who already had in mind what it was): When the fish that travels over both land and sea is cast up on to the shore by a great wave, its shape foreign, smooth and frightful. From the sea the enemies soon reach the walls.

And now an easy one, IX, 36:

Vn grâd Roy prins entre les mains d'vn loyne,
Non loin de Pasque confusion coup cultre:
Perpet, captifs foudre en la husne,
Lors que trois freres se blesseront & murtre.

roughly: A great King taken by the hands of a young man, Not far from Easter confusion knife thrust: Everlasting captive times what lightning on the top, When three brothers will wound each other and murder.

Go for it, you know now the game

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:23 AM

KingBrilliant:

Some years ago, I had to do a talk on some new company procedures that we were introducing and because it was near Christmas, I was told to "make it light-hearted".

I found the quatrains where Nostrodamus predicted our use of the new company standards , and also, as an encore, where Merlin predicted them.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:52 AM

Strange, I just had a bizzare sense of deja vu.

EJ

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:48 AM

Bill D, You say: "well, I predict that nonsense will continue and superstition and gullibility will always have much too deep a hold on the minds of humans."

You are obviously a Scorpio then?

My favourite piece of graffiti ever was on a sign advertising an upcoming "Psycics Convention".
The graffiti artist had added "cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances".

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:42 AM

"Ok CarolC & Hille - next time you get that feeling, could you give us a nudge please?"

*grin*

KingBrilliant, I could, but nobody ever listens to kooks like me...

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:55 AM

Ok CarolC & Hille - next time you get that feeling, could you give us a nudge please?
Has anytone tried that 'rearrange the words & ditch what doesn't fit' theory on some other random text - just to see whether a prediction is that easy to construe retrospectively? I don't have the time right now, but I'd be really interested to see.

kristin

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:52 AM

I feel a vision coming on....

A great city, or country, or sea, or desert.
Will be hit by a fire, or bomb, or flood, or drought.
It will be in year 2001, that could be counted from the birth of Christ, Mohammed or Buddha. Or it might be in the year of the cat.
And it will be during the course of the ninth month, which used to be the seventh month, or on new years day, which may be in April, or in the quarter of the the great digbat...

Do I get to get to be the master of predictions now?

Please?

Dave the Mystic

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:43 AM

GUEST,Hille, I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but I had a strong sense of forboding the night before the attacks. And it surprised me, too, because at the time, things in my life were more mellow than they had been in a while. There wasn't anything in particular going on in my life at the time to cause me to feel that way. I felt pretty scared, and I didn't know why.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:52 AM

It's all there! All you have to do is rearrange the words, and change the ones that don't fit ...

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:48 AM

Maybe not predictions but an indication - my best friend was saying to me on Monday "SOMETHING is going to happen - I can't understand why I have this feeling - it's like there's almost a smell in the air" and you think well, "You've had cancer, Sweetie, the landlord wants you out of the apartment next month, Autumn IS in the air" - and then she got out her Tarot cards and asked what is happening ("for me") and got the 5 of Swords "Conquest through Strength" and the "Tower struck by Lightning" and you think well (at the time), that's just a load of bollocks isn't it - just proves these things are rubbish?

Does anyone know if any of these contemporary so-called pyschics who do long-range forcasts actually "foresaw" this one?

Several years ago, in the middle of August, my child-minder's boyfriend (when I went to pick up the kids) said to me "I had such a wierd dream last night - that I woke up to and although I hadn't seen it, but Princess Diana had been killed in a car crash and there were loads of flowers" And, me a cycnic goes "Yeah, well, people like her don't get killed in car crashes (okay, Grace of Monaco aside) I mean they are so well protected, aren't they? And, then a fortnight later....

What does any one else think? Do we humans have pre-emptive ability (even short range)? (I don't want to even go down the route of "Everything happens for a reason" and the New Age line - as it makes me livid) - but just human beings' empathic abilities. Presumably, evolutionary-ily we must have developed a sense of awareness of when a sabre-tooth tiger might be likely to be around (and the ones who didn't got eaten)

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: marty D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:04 AM

Bill D. YOU are the REAL prophet. Can I follow your teachings in my spare time? Any advice on the World Series?

marty

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:51 PM

well, I predict that nonsense will continue and superstition and gullibility will always have much too deep a hold on the minds of humans. Anyone want to bet me?

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:43 PM

See here for who Arethusa was.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 06:22 PM

He also predicted the end of the world in July of 2000.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 05:39 PM

Maybe the hijackers were all named Norman.....

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

The one about the village idiot was an internet hoax.

I don't get the part about the Normans, though. Are there French people involved?

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM

Hopis, Edgar Cayce, Mayan, and many, many others also had/have predictions. There are more links to them, than you can shake a stick at, here: Multicultural Prophecies and Predictions

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: RWilhelm
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:54 PM

Nostradamus always predicts what happened yesterday, never what will happen tomorrow.

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: DebC
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:50 PM

You are correct, Clinton. But I liked this little Nostradamus Nugget:

In 1555, Nostradamus wrote:

Come the millennium, month 12, In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader.

Deb

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:43 PM

Oh please...

May as well believe the theories of Eric vonDanikin...

Nostadamus....

What a load of hogs-wallop....

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Firecat
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:29 PM

I actually read the report on Nostradamus's predictions in the Daily Mail (UK paper) today. This is the report from the paper

DID NOSTRADAMUS PREDICT IT ALL?

The French prophet Nostradamus may have predicted the destruction of the World Trade Centre more than 400 years ago.

In his book Centuries, the 16th century soothsayer wrote: "Earthshaking fire from the world's centre will cause tremors around the New City. Two great immovable powers will war for a long time, the Arethusa will redden a new river."

Another verse refers to "The garden of the World near the New City, in the road of the hollow mountains. It will be seized and plunged in the tank, forced to drink water poisoned with sulphur."

Nostradamus experts believe "hollow mountains" to be the clairvoyant's way of describing skyscrapers.

In the sixth book of his predictions, Nostradamus says: "They sky will burn at 45 degrees. Fire appraoches the great New City. Immediately a huge scattered flame leaps up when they want to have proof of the Normans."

Nostradamus author Erika Cheetham believs this refers to New York, as it lies near the 45 degree parallel. Other translations interpret this as a nuclear attack on the city. A further verse, or quatrain, in Nostradamus's ninth book, could be interpreted as referring to hostages being used in an attack, describing "a captive, falsely faced to speak and act."

It may even predict the fact that George W Bush was in Florida, far away from the city at the time.

The verse reads: "The king will want to enter the New City, they will come to subdue it through its enemies. A captive, falsely faced to speak and act. The king to be outside he will stay far from the enemy."

(Daily Mail, page 26, September 12, 2001)

Just out of interest, what is an Arethusa?

Subject: RE: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Mickey191
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 03:09 PM

Would you please enlighten me as to his predictions? I was just going to post on this very question. Thanks

Subject: NOSTRADAMUS' Predictions?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 12 Sep 01 - 01:39 PM

Like everyone, I share in the shock and horror of yesterday's catastrophic events, and offer all my condolences to the victims and their families and friends.

I am very apprehensive about the "timing" of yesterday's events, and hope upon hope that cooler heads (and aware of Nostradamus's predictions) will prevail as far as any retaliatory action, which will most certainly be taken (and which I consider entirely justified.)