Help: Becoming a amateur performer

Subject: Becoming a amateur performer
From: GUEST,Steven G.
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:27 PM

Hello, all

I am wondering about something. I am currently in the transiton of becoming a amateur performer.

For about 5 years now, I have been playing mostly folk music. I been listening to Gordon Lightfoot, Stan Rogers, and other Maritime Celtic Bands.

My concern is when singing songs from a particular artist in public. For example, I like playing Stan Rogers tunes. And I want to keep the air of a tune, the way the Stan Rogers wrote it in. Since I don't have a great baritone voice as Stan Rogers had, I have put the capo on the 2nd fret to play one of his tunes. It is going to be in a different key, but I would like keep the air of the song as it was written.

My question is it alright to doing this? Or I am going to be one of those musicians that want be a Gordon Lightfoot/Stan Rogers wannabe types?

Thanks for your time,

Steven G.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Willa
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:32 PM

Give the songs your own voice, Steven. Better your interpretation than an attempt to copy. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:37 PM

Always sing songs in the key that is right for your voice. Which is quite likely to be different on different nights anyway.

Trying to make the same kind of sound that the person you learnt a song from is never the right way to go. That doesn't mean change it to try and be original and all that, but pitch it the way that your voice requires it, and do it at the speed that feels rigfht, and use the accompaniment or non-accompaniment that helps.

The song is what matters, not the performer.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:38 PM

I agree. Folk music is not the place for "tribute bands". By all means give the writer credit for the song, if known, but perform it your own way. That's what makes Folk so special. And especially - sing in the key that's best for your voice, not the key someone else, even the writer, used. Otherwise you won't last to enjoy being an performer. And welcome to the art!

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 02:59 PM

They are all correct, StevenG. You bring your own interpretation and feelings to a song. You may do a song at a different tempo or volume, you might evn change the tune or the words, or even write a new verse. Some purists my grouse about what you are doing but make sure you listen to the whole range of comments. Don't let negativity change you but be aware of the changes in your audience. If you are doing something that means a lot to you and you aren't drawing any audience then there is something wrong with either your presentation or with what you are doing.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Rory B
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 03:16 PM

Steven, This is the foreward Stan Rogers wrote in my Stan Rogers songbook, it should put your mind at ease! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "This book is intended as a companion piece to my first four albums, although anyone with a rudimentary ablility on the guitar should be able to piece together a reasonable version of any of these songs by paying attention to the notations on chord shapes, tunings and tablatures which are given whenever necessary. I would like to emphasize that I am not a complicated or particularly skilled guitarist. Most of my concentration when performing these songs is given to my voice; perforce the guitar parts must be kept as simple and economical as possible. When in doubt about any particular riff, I strongly advise the reader to find the easiest way to approximate what you hve heard on the record, or leave it out altogether. That's what I'd do!

I have often been told that people are reluctant to play my songs, even though they might like to. The reason most often given is that they feel they should be able to make the songs sound the way I so them. To this I say "What makes you so sure my way is the best way? I only wrote the things. You can make them you own by doing them your way." I have at home several recordings of songs of mine of other artists whose versions I much prefer to my own, and I am always delighted to hear anyone sing one of my pieces. I intended all of these songs to be shared, else I would never have recorded them.

Please feel free to play with the chords, tempo, rythym, and melody as much as you like, and if you come up with anything good let me know immediately so I can steal it from you in that time honoured tradition known as the 'folk process'. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There you go Steven G....permission from the man himself..hope you will take his advice and carry on his music in your own style...its what he wanted.

Huggs from Rory B

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 03:39 PM

Put me down with the rest of them--no matter what the song, you have to make the sound your own..This is the thing that takes a while, because you have to learn a lot about what strengths that your voice has, what emotions you express well, what tempos work best, what kind of accompaniment best emphasizes your voice--lots of stuff. You do it a bit at a time, and a lot of the work really has to be done while you are playing for audiences, because that is the only place that you can tell what works and what doesn't--

You say that you like Stan Rogers songs, but your voice is higher--it is important to find a singer whose voice is similar to your your own so you can see how they do things--It may even be an someone who never does the kind of music you like--that is OK, you are looking at technique--It may even be better, because you will copy a lot--every singer does, but if the person you are copying does a different kind of material than you, no one will ever accuse you of being a wannabee or a copycat--

One thing that is important to remember-a lot of people who sing and play the guitar tend to focus on the guitar first, and the singing is an after thought--the audience hears and responds the singing, not the guitar playing. Do what you need to do to make the vocals good, even if you have to throw away songs that you like because they are do not work as well with your voice others--

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Gary T
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 03:53 PM

If you want to do songs just like Stan Rogers or Gordon Lightfoot did them (although obviously in the key you can sing them in), that's OK, but not always the most desirable. It's a personal preference issue. Sometimes a rendition that very closely resembles the original or best known version of a song is comforting to those who are familiar with it. Other times it sounds like too much imitation, the "wannabe" syndrome. Conversely, a noticeably different arrangement of a song will be considered by some to be breathing new life into it, by others to be butchering it.

I suggest do what feels natural and best to you. If you really like the way you have heard the song and want to bring that to the audience, stay with the original arrangement. (You might want to avoid any conscious or subconscious attempt to mimic someone else's voice.) In time, you're likely to personalize your rendition to some degree, perhaps changing a word or altering some phrasing here and there. Again, do what feels right. Trying to force yourself to rearrange the song, just like trying to force yourself to slavishly reproduce the original, will dampen the soul of what you're doing. Do it like you want.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: GUEST,Steven G.
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 04:46 PM

Thanks to all that posted a message on this thread. Some great responses, and I guess the all around answer is to do these songs the way that I want to do them. And I will do that.

Thanks again, and if anyone wants to add something else, feel free to do so.

Steven G.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 05:03 PM

Bottom line - enjoy what you do! *BG*

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: radriano
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 05:48 PM

When starting out one almost always has to resort to emulating some performer or singer. Your own style will emerge over time.

I am always surprised to see so many people continually asking for "the" chords to a song or tune. It's kind of like asking for the definitive version of a folk song.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 08:21 PM

This conversation is much more open than the one about dagnabbed singer/songwriters. Would everyone's answers be as accepting of changing chord pattern, melodies and words if someone is doing a traditional song? I don't think that I would, and I am a part-time singer/song maker-upper.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 08:24 PM

I should add, by all means, make the song yours... even if it's a traditional song. If you don't make it yours, it will just be a fairly good copy of someone else. With traditional songs, I think that you should honor the words and melody as much as you can. A Calypso version of a Southern Appalachian banjo tune probably wouldn't come off well..

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 09:48 PM

I don't know, Jerry--I think you've got something there, and the nice thing about Calypso is that people won't mind if you donn't play fast--I just picked out a version of "The Cookoo Bird"

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Oct 01 - 10:46 PM

Good for you, Mister Ted (any relation to Mister Ed?) You've just given me a loud, healthy guffaw! I always wanted to work out the Orange Blossom Special in Waltz time... Try Eeee-hawwing to that, will you!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 12:51 PM

In "A Matter of Heart" or whatever it is called. The Proffesional Stage Musicians don't attempt to "replicate" Stan Rodgers versions of his songs. They interpret them in their own way, like everyone else seems to have said, do your OWN thing. Good Luck, JohnB

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Clifton53
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 02:43 PM

Be prepared to hear all kinds of advice and comments, good and bad, from people who hear you play. It always amazes me the things a total stranger will say to you,i.e. " Those guitars suck", or, "You played that wrong" etc. Ignore the assholes, listen to the sincere, and find your own path. Besides, you can always log on to the 'cat and get great advice. Good luck, and practice 'til you bleed.

Clifton

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: GUEST,Steven G.
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 03:03 PM

Thanks, again for all the input. I think it was M. Ted that quoted "it is important to find a singer whose voice is similar to your your own so you can see how they do things".

I found who that voice would be. Gordon Lightfoot. Lightfoot and I sort of have that same pitch, I can certainly learn from him on finding that technique.

But I agree with you all, don't imitate, just play the song you feel comfortable doing it in.

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Skipper Jack
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 03:21 PM

I endorse what everybody has said here.

I have a group mainly aca pella. I insist that when one or other comes up with ideas for new material, and they invariably pick it up from a recording. That we give it our own interpretation.

You have to observe the copyright laws of course if you ever get to record the song.

Good luck to you!

Subject: RE: Help: Becoming a amateur performer
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Oct 01 - 06:17 PM

Jerry R- thanks for the snort.

Now back to previous programming...

Ebbie