Pangur Ban - meaning ?

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: GUEST,franc 91
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 03:17 PM

I would like to point out that in the transcription given on the CELT website, there are two mistakes (I have an urge to scream and shout at them every time I see this - WHOSE special art !) - in the second line, the third word should be - fria - and NOT fri - otherwise it doesn't make much sense. In the last line the second word should be - mu - and not - mo, someone is carelessly getting mixed up between modern and old Irish (by the way it means - my). Pangur is not an Irish word, but Welsh and as mentioned above it does mean - fuller - it would probably have been pronounced - pannwr - ie without the 'g'. There are several learned papers and articles about it by people such as Toner, Anders Ahlqvist (in Ollam) srl. There's been a fake idea that has been put out there on the web that it's written/scribbled in the margins of a religious text of some kind. Of course this not true as it takes up the bottom third of a page in this monk's personal copybook. You can see the copybook (or what's left of it) on the website of the monastic library where it's kept - Saint Paul im Lavantthal in Austria - though there's another page in the Karlsruhe State Library. The Reichenau Monastery (on an island on what is now the 'South Coast' of Germany) was closed down by Napoleon in around 1802 and the library was dispersed following that. It is thought that this 'primer' comes from there, but there's no way of knowing for certain. It had had close links/rivalry with Saint Gall in Switzerland and on their website, they explain how young monks studying there had regular meetings with their colleagues and the librarian in the chapter house (where they were allowed to speak), who put out various books on the floor for them to study. They had to take one back to their cell and then when they returned with it, they had to demonstrate in front of all the others that that they had managed to fully understand what they had read and were ready to go on to the next book.That gives you some idea of what the poem is about. In his copybook you can see that he was also studying Greek among various other subjects.
Have a listen to this and enjoy the sean-chlo and designs -
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQoHxzaoHro - thanks to John Farrell

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 06:18 PM

Mise agus Pangur Bán blueclickified.

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 07:52 AM

Here's what the original looks like; note that the author Suadbar is using the Tyronian 'et'.

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:17 AM

It's not quite correct to say that Pangur Ban (without the fada (accent) on the 'a') is meaningless; it would mean 'Pangur of women' as 'ban' is the genitive plural of 'bean' (woman). But of course it should be Pangur Bán, or White Pangur.

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:50 AM

Back a bit to that Etan/Aiden reference.

Barber and Auden were part of a clique of gay writers and musicians (also Britten, Pears, Plomer, Menotti, Isherwood...) who collaborated for many years. Aiden is normally a man's name. Was Auden showcasing or inventing a gay reference in Irish tradition for Barber to make use of?

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 11:02 AM

The Cuchullainn excerpt was translated by
Kenneth Jackson rather than W. H. Auden,
for what it's worth.

Also, Jackson renders the name "Edan".
Must look again at Barber's score to see
if I was mistaken in how the composer spelled it.

Subject: RE: Pangur Ban - meaning ?
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 09:39 PM

Is there a link in this thread
to W. H. Auden's rendition?
It's probably under COPYRIGHT
but I'll put it in this post.



Pangur, white Pangur,
How happy we are,
Alone together,
Scholar and cat.

Each has his
own work to do daily:
for you, it is hunting;
for me, study.

Your shining eye watches the wall;
my feeble eye is fixed on a book.

You rejoice when your claws
entrap a mouse;
I rejoice when my mind
fathoms a problem.

Pleased with his own art,
Neither hinders the other;
Thus we live ever,
Without tedium and envy.