Is Mudcat a friendly site?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:13 PM

...just to distinguish myself from the person who used a word I love to bandy about, (you guess the word!)I will explain again that anyone who wishes membership in the inner clique need only send me a check for $50. It's really that simple....hg

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:23 PM

So, when is the next conspiritors meeting, Spaw? Will Paw and gang be there?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:27 PM

I think this was the quote from Max you are reffering to spaw:

There is a Mudcat clique, or core group, if you will. I call you the 1%ers. Half of my design efforts, functions, doodads, are for the 1%ers, half are for the other 99%. The 1%ers are so because they're here a lot, and they post a lot, not for any other reason than that. I ask more of you. I ask the 1%ers to simply represent us, the Mudcat, with pride, patience, empathy, tolerance, and love. I've seen some testiness lately. Don't you think I get pissed off? See me do much about it in the forum? You are the 1%, which means you are not the majority by far. Try not to forget about the other 99%.

Jon

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:35 PM

Spaw:

I think what you're saying is that the fact that you extend the honorific to me, being the rasty bastard I am, is proof present that ANYONE can qualify. I'm not sure I want to join a clique with such low standards!!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:51 PM

I didn't want to belong either because my membership alone drags the prestige of membership somewhere below "Rock Bottom." Then of course Amos, there is you......at which point the whole thing looks as being totally without any form of redeeming social value............This has got to be the worst clique in the world.......Sorch, schedule a meeting! We have to raise the standards somehow.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Tweed
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:01 PM

You guys better do something quick, as now you have Blues folk roaming the grounds and adjacent properties! By the Way, I've found the MudCat to be very friendly and helpful and I'm also an only child, figure that one out!;~)
Tweed

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:08 PM

Well Tweed, I saw that picture of that Rooski mando and I figure your Communist leanings are drawing you here.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:49 PM

I don't see it as right to call them arseholes (or assholes for that matter.) Indispensable part of the human anatomy, shouldn't be disparaged in that way.

Anonymity - nothing wrong with that, and the easiest thing to achieve. There are occasions when it makes sense too. But sticking a one-off label after the GUEST (like Wilda Beest for example) doesn't in any way reduce anonymity, it just makes it easier keeping track in a discussion, and is thus a courteous thing to do. Wearing masks and fancy dress at a party could be fun, but it's better if different people wear different masks and different costumes.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:59 PM

Given the fact that about everyone seems to belong to the feckin' inner circle, it seems to me that the much more exclusive club to belong to is the "stay anonymous and at the same time be a fecking load of shite by trying to hurt other people" clique. Dammit.........it ain't fair. I have worked hard to attain the exalted status of "McFart Knowitall" and "overweight drunken Irish guy". It seems to me I should be allowed into this very exclusive group. .............. Wait...............I would have to give up all my friends, sit around behind a computer touching myself.........have a miserable life.......................Be mad at my mother for not changing my diaper enough.........start pulling wings off butterflies.......and give up exercising my talent, because they don't have any......Nah, I think I will just stay where I am. When's that meeting Sorch????

Mick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: MMario
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 08:25 PM

aw, crap! Did I miss another Inner Clique meeting? I'm gonna lose my membership, wanna bet?

Henry - and other guests. Our anonymous poster tries desperatly to imply that there is a prejudice at the mudcat against guests in general. I think anyone willing to look over threads in any depth will be willing to concede that that just is not so. There is (in my opinon - and note I say OPINION) a marked feeling against anonymous guests who make rude, disparaging comments. But regulars and guests alike will also call out members who go overboard in the hostility and/or paranoi department. There are regular posters here who are not members - for one reason or another. There are also very occasional posters who are members. It is not so much whether or not you are a member - more whether or not you are willing to adhere to minimal standards of social conduct. And as others have said - the forum is much like 3D life ~ sometimes there is rough weather - othertimes it is clear sailing.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:43 PM

"minimal standards of social conduct."

I LIKE that Mario. Will you talk to Spaw, or will I?

Rick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:59 PM

OK, guys, next meeting will be February 30th, my place. The menu includes Flies Without Wings, Burnt Trolls, Guest a la Flambe, Sauteed Assholes, and for dessert, Doughnuts Policia a la Russki. OK? Ya'll be here, now heah? Appetizers may or may not include Possum Livers, Asparagus Quiche (for the Vegetarians), BBQ'ed MaxBalls fried in bronze, Guinness A La Mode, and for a special treat, Road Kill Mountain Oysters marinated in a special edition of Wyoming Pissant Beer--these brought to you courtesy of Robin2. Vegetarians/Vegans please give advance notice of attendance--your needs can be met.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 10:03 PM

Hey Sorch, I notice tha Gnu is back and active so I'd say get in a case or so of Turkey Turd Beer too. And BTW, just for fun before the meetings start, I'll have a few dozen tiples and noseflutes delivered from the NYCFTTS to use.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 10:05 PM

Louisa, this is wrong place to look for symphonious sympathy

Louisa you are a lousy loser, your thesis is crap, it will never pass muster.

In other words, eat shit, fuck off and die.

Any one as thin skinned as your appearance don't belong in the prickly pear patch.

Mario you ain't got a snowball's chance of making the inner circle. Katlaughing with a MC posting list so long the server cannot load it, is an example of one of the favorites, the Mudcat was built for her, and her likes. She is a goddess within Max's world. Those she likes stay, those who cross her leave.

Guest

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 10:10 PM

Can do, Spaw. Please send 3 doz nose flutes, 2 doz Tiples, and 8 doz. Amish pitchfork tuners to my addy, asap. If gnu is attending, perhaps we should have Grilled Gnu Steak available also? (Ostrich as a second choice?) Ostrich steak available only 12 miles from my house. Still waiting to hear from the Veggie contingent......Perhaps Grilled Tofu a la Gargoyle????

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 10:57 PM

HEY KID!!!! Please don't leave. 'Cause I would miss you when you're gone. CHEERS and HUGs, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:56 AM

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 01:22 AM

Your scholarly interest is very welcome here, and would add alot to discussions. As we're saying, just ignore the flamers. The many good folks here know what's what - a flamer can't bring you down in our eyes, so as unpleasant as it is to read, just concentrate on the good stuff that vastly outweighs the inevitable Net bad apples. Nothing new said, just want to throw in my vote of confidence.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 07:18 AM

Aren't I adorable? Don't you all wish you could be like me? Sometimes I could hug myself.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 08:32 AM

Hmm, maybe it's time to revive this old chestnut or its successor here. They take an age to load, but maybe one could become a permathread that self-flushes every few days.
And, Louisa, congrats on the MA. I've just sent off for details from the Open University in the UK to do an MA and, gulp, the discipline involved is daunting. 'Nuff respect!

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,pinkfiddle
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 08:44 AM

Thanks to everyone who posted with votes of confidence. My faith has been restored and I'm not going to leave - will reset cookie at some point. I don't have regular access to a computer at the moment.

Of course I realise that people like this unwelcome guest are going to turn up on an open site - just like in the real world, and I should ignore his/her comments. Was annoyed when I originally posted, but now couldn't really care less what this person thinks. Obviously a deeply sad individual with a lot of spare time on his/her hands.

Part of my MA involved interviewing folk musicians and singers about their thoughts on the revival and the contemporary folk scene, and one of them spoke of his love for the people on the folk scene and the way they interact, suggesting that a sense of 'folk camaraderie' exists. Despite occasional idiots trying to spoil things, from my experience of festivals, sessions, clubs and Mudcat, there is certainly rings true for me as well.

Re: getting my MA online - this something I will endevaour to sort out after Xmas

Thanks pf

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,pinkfiddle
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:33 AM

Whoops, sorry about the typos - should say 'this certainly rings true for me as well' and 'endeavour'

pf

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:14 PM

Looking forward to it eagerly, pinkfiddle!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 12:21 PM

Pinkfiddle, if you're still around, my congrats to you as well. I took my masters late in life while working full time and I know the sacrifices that are made. When you come here to visit us you might remember this 'California' Koan:

The bad news is there is bad stuff. The good news is you don't have to take notice.

Happy Holidays and best wishes, Fortunato.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Dec 01 - 10:48 PM

Mudcat Co-Conspirators, UNTIE!!!

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 12:38 AM

Spaw - If you really want to raise the standards around here, I should think that a few more threads about William Shatner would help, combined with a generally more respectful and appreciative attitude toward the WSSBA, and an admission that "Space Oddity" is one of the 10 greatest songs ever recorded.

That would be an excellent start!

- LH

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 06:27 AM

Unfriendly site? Absolutely. Pink - don't listen to morons who make personal silly attacks like that. But the site in general IS a rather unfriendly enviroment from a group of people who hold themselves above high and mighty over everything and everyone else. Funny part is, they're really only patting themselves on the back because no one else will.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:15 AM

So what's the problem with that Guest? Anyone who has ever been in business knows you have to make money from your friends because your enemies won't deal with you.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:24 AM

You don't want to listen to me either.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:33 AM

Oh, sorry, Guest....please, say it again...

...but DO try & make a little more sense this time...

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,andi
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:53 AM

I used to post here, I stopped earlier this year after being here only a month. I found that most folks here had little to no tolerance for those of us who simply enjoy music and are not endevering to make a carrer out of it. While some folks were helpful (notably, George), I was basically told (maybe not in so many words but the idea certainly came across) to sod off. Inner Clique? yeah, it includes the folks whom Mick and others called Elders and those of you who have anough musical background to distinguish between Great Big Sea's version of a song from Son's of Maxwell version of the same song with out calling it "Great Big Sea's Mari-Mac" or " Son's of Maxwell's Mari-Mac" ( hold on for the flames if you make *that mistake!) I like lurking but posting is something i found best left to those of you who actually know music andi

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:14 AM

Well, I'd have STARVED long ago if I tried to make a career out of music....

I'm here just cos I enjoy it, I am seldom able to make much contribution (other than to admire the talent &/or the knowledge of the people I see here) but have NEVER felt unwelcome, & frankly it surprises me that others have.

Now that might sound like praising the place too highly, but I am, truthfully, telling it as I've found it.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:52 AM

I've never found musical knowledge (or lack of) to be a problem round here. In my experience, most people will gladly share what knowledge they have with no "I know more than you" attitude.

Where I find matters tend to go wrong is that responses here can be based on who you are. Here is an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about:

Yesterday, a thread was opened with the question:

how many of you guys play your guitar while you are talking on the cat?

OK maybe not the most inspiring question ever raised at Mudcat but still a polite question and a couple of us did try and make something of it and answer the question. The next step was someone came in and posted:

I fart a lot while on the 'Cat. I fart a lot when I'm playing. I fart a lot generally. What can we learn from this?

Now if that post had been made by a Guest, people would almost certainly have jumped on the poster's back but the most was made by spaw to which the normal reaction would be a few "fart related" posts by a few people here all sort of congratulating themselves on their wit and indicating what a funny man spaw is.

I guess it's great for those with that sort of sense of humour but I for one do not have it and as it happens several times find it gets tedious. Worse than that there are times when I find it plain rude.

Jon

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:24 AM

Fee fi fo fum I smell paranoia
Failte....Jock

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From:
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:52 AM

I've been around this site on and off for 5 years now and on the whole it is an extremely friendly place to hang out. I've seen real out-flowings of compassion; even been on the receiving end a couple of times and it feels real good. A few members'posts get my back up occasionally, but hey, that happens in 3D land too. The anonymous guest postings are best ignored if they're obvious flame bait.

All in all this is still the best site I've found on the Internet for discussing everything under the sun...oh, and music occasionally!

Scott

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:36 PM

Yeah and it's still run by an unfriendly inner clique and you all know it!

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 07:48 PM

Dear Guest:

I'm sorry if you've been treated in an unfriendly fashion.

What was it you were trying to say when you were so rudely interrupted?

Maybe you should give it a second try?

Ya know -- 90% perspiration rule and all that?

A the Younger
Always a Younger, Never an Elder!

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 08:02 PM

I'm a real Nowhere Man

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 10:48 PM

Wow yer pinkness, did you open a container of nematodes, or what!?

Now me, I'm can be studiously dense (just ask my ex-wife) so I almost NEVER get it when I am being insulted and I don't think I have even been flamed, flammed maybe but not flamed. Life is short, more for some than others. I think that you should just have fun and try to be kind whenever you can. Unless you pack a gun, then be whatever you can be.

CB

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: marty D
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 11:54 PM

What I can't understand is that the complainers, both anonymous and familiar never change their tune, year after year. Wouldn't any SANE person simply leave for good if they were dissatisfied with the level of friendliness or profanity or whatever? Hope I never get so lonely I have to stay in a place I don't like. Sorry for being unfriendly, but sometimes you just have to shake your head.

Now Day Traders' discussion groups, THAT'S unfriendly!

marty

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:53 AM

I have concluded that While some folks here are nice many are A--Holes, the Spell checkers, the OUR (not your) Mudcatters, The Know it alls, and The Flamers w/ and especially w/o Guest attached to their name. I used to visit more frequently, now I just Stop by every now and again. There is always a thread like this - winter , spring, summer, or Fall.What does that tell you?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 01:02 AM

That you come back often?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 05:18 AM

That you don't learn from experience?
Failte....Jock

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 06:25 AM

No guys, it means that you are too thick headed to know what this site is like to the "outsiders" and that you also don't give a crap. MARTY - don't bother shaking your head, it isn't the SAME guest that posts this thread - it is differnet people doing it. Now you can stop shaking and think - wow , catters really ARE a bunch of dicks sometimes.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 08:00 AM

Well, after reading all these msgs, I will admit I am just a lover of music, not a musician at all.

If anyone has a problem with that, or just wants to post flames and crap, I have an idea.

You can find me sitting at the bar of the Kildare House in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Usually sitting with a red-headed freak of a musician named Clinton Hammond. If you want to talk trash here on the 'Cat, meet me at the bar, be a real man, or a reasonably drawn facimile, and we'll deal with it.

"Just see how dumb the average person is, and then realize that half the people, are dumber than that." - George Carlin

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:13 AM

On the whole it's a lot friendlier in here than it is out there. And that isn't true of a lot of internet discussion venues.

I am very grateful to the people who make it so, both Max and his hands-on helpers, and the general run of Mudcatters too, especially those who work pretty hard sometimes at keeping it level and helpful and lively, and helping it recover when it gets holed below the waterline.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From:
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 09:48 AM

To nameless guest who posted at 6.25 am above,

This site obviously isn't too terrible to outsiders as we seem to keep getting a regular flow of new members coming on in. Some longtime members could do with showing a bit more tolerance at times to nameless guests that do come along asking reasonable questions, but nameless guests which do that are few and far between. I haven't found any other un-moderated site that is as good as this one. Biggest problem with this site is it's so warm and friendly most of the time that people end up feeling too safe here and then open up more than is probably wise on the internet, thus leaving the way open for some heartless troll to really hurt them.

Scott

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:28 PM

I'm pretty much with Jock on the friendliness of this site as an unmoderated site. I also agree that there are always new comers here but the site also puts some people off...

I'll use my mum, Pip as an example. She has often read threads here but gives up because her tolerance for nonsense (I mean things like diverting a thread for a few jokes amongst a few people) is rather less than mine. Her reponse is just to give up and not read for a week or more - different to me who mostly just skips over that sort of thing (although can be seething inside - the fox-hunting thread was a recent one that got me like that).

To answer Marty's question on why keep coming back, I can offer one perspective. There is a lot of good stuff in Mudcat and a lot of good people. This includes "inner clique members" some of whom make excellent posts - take spaw for example, I have read somw highly informative music related posts from him and other extremely thoughtful posts... so there is enough worth while for me (although at one point my frustrations some of which were "behind the scenes" ones did reach a point where I decided to quit) so I stay but protest - or really pass comments when threads like this one invite views - I can't remember ever starting a "what's wrong with Mudcat" thread - often, I only start to post the more negative side when I start reading the "how wonderful this place is/we are" type posts - just pushes me one step too far...

The first and biggest gripe of mine has not raised it's head for a few weeks. That is the BS volume, etc. one. I still believe combined forum is the wrong root but things seem to be improving. I noticed spaw give a link to Tweed's site where he has spent some time and him showing some enthusiasm for a chat program. Susan has a prayer forum which I believe is thriving, etc. Moves may be being taken to spread the load a little and I see this as good. There is also the Annexe where I think some think I'm trying to launch a "take over bid" but it is no more than another opening/possibility - I'd like to see more... better still I'd like to see Mudcat absorbing some of this...

The second one does come down to the "inner clique" and the sort of thing I mentioned in an example in a previous post. I have nothing against humour or profanity but we do have situations that are repetitive and predictable. Is it really right that 1% should divert threads in the name of humour for example - what about the 1% (and probably far more) that are trying to enjoy the thread as it stands?

While on gripes, I will mention another although I still don't know whether it ammuses me or makes me sad - it produces mixed feelings and I keep telling myself I am just being over-sensitive:

Programming has been a hobby of mine for a while and the Annexe I have had a great oppertunity to play and try to develop to suit users requests. The system is not complete but I (with the help of ideas from others) have indroduced quite a few ideas - On Sun/Mon I responded to request, introduced a reverse listing, a sort of message since last visit (mine works on the topic listing - just one page but with an asterisk against posts that have been added) and the last poster as well as the author of a thread. I also seem to have come up with a system that is up 99.9% of the time (I'm not saying it would handle Mudcat load - I would be using a different database, probably different O/S, etc if I was aiming for that - just saying it meets its objectives)...

I get little in the way of feedback of any sort but I think the package is pretty good, is stable and to date (fingers crossed) I have a good record at introducing user requests. OK I don't ask for thanks but...

Sometime in June, I saw a thread here saying 2 weeks to go for changes with the usual "great Max" comments yet nthing has happened here to date - I've delivered my promises. Thanksgiving time, I provided a system that worked and was used by quite a few while Mudcat (which like it or not has stability/reliability problems) ground to a halt. I think I saw one mention of the Annex helping some and loads of "Thanks Max" for a system that failed yet again...

The conclusion I reached was that it doesn't really matter how well something is done - what really matters is who you are. Makes me wonder about the value of the "Great Max" comments and more so about the people who make them...

Jon

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:56 PM

Simple, Jon. You would never have had the opportunity to create a Mudcat Annexe, or get the ideas for the type of programming you do, or have had the venue which brought you the names of folkies and bluesies worldwide, had it not been for Max and his wonderful site. It is the same for all of us. The possibilities and friends that derived from this place are amazing. And it came because a young man in Pennsylvania started a hobby site that became something much bigger. And because he keeps it going at great personal expense, and with a great investment of time, and with a great investment on the floor space of his home. In other words, it isn't a competition. Max is revered because of all of the above.

I, for one, appreciate greatly your efforts, as well. I entered the Annexe for the first time and found it to be a nice supplement to The Mudcat. I believe I congratulated you.

Mick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 01 - 12:57 PM

It may be perverse of me, but I feel more comfortable when things break down every now and again, and then get better again. Systems that never break down leave me with a worry that someday they suddenly will vanish away.

And I'm very grateful to Jon for the existence and the reliability of the Annexe, especially for those occasions.

"spaw gave a link to Tweed's site" - I missed that. Gissa a link, someone.

As for drift, humorous or not, that's a price (if we don't like it) that we pay for the flexibility and openness of the Cat - and I think it's well worth it. I can't see a way of avoiding it, other than having some monitor come in and slap our wrists, or a mobbing culture of people nagging each other for getting out of line. Either of which itself would put a lot of people off coming here.

And I imagine Max has had rather a lot of worries in his mind recently, what with his business crisis.