Is Mudcat a friendly site?

Subject: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,pinkfiddle lost cookie
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:35 AM

Hi

I'm really disappointed that I've found myself wanting to post this. At the moment I don't really feel as though I want to continue posting on this forum.

Earlier this year I posted some questions in relation to my MA on folk revivals that I was working on, and many of you were able to help out. Some of you have also asked to read it. I am getting my results on this piece of work in a few days and in the New Year I am hoping to put it online.

However, while most people I have chatted with on Mudcat have been friendly I seem to have become the subject of attack from an anonymous guest who has criticised me, my typing errors and my MA (a piece of work he has never seen). It is the criticism of my MA that has upset me the most. I worked extremely hard on this piece of work - I did my MA in a year and it was a very intense experience that I took on a few months after losing my father.

Louisa

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Gareth
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:40 AM

Respectfully suggest that Anon is a A~~~~~e who is incapable of producing a thesis himself - and who should be treated with contempt.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:43 AM

Well, Louisa, consider the kind of person who would need to remain anonymous and who would attack people in a personal way for silly crap that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Is that really someone to whom you want to pay much attention?

Mudcat is just like the rest of the world. There are angels and there are demons and there's a vast array in varying degrees in between. As with the rest of the world, you get to decide which conversations and people you want to empower and which you want to ignore.

Me? I say ta heck with the buttheads and let's play nice and have fun. Sometimes "Guest" forgets to take his meds or just needs to eat more bran flakes. We try not to have that spoil our good time.

WyoWoman

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:44 AM

Hi Pink.......I saw the thread you mention and I wondered what that was all about then. Truthfully, look at the responses you got before and I think you'll agree it's nice and friendly place. Sadly, we have become large enough to attract the occasional flamer or troller and you seem to have caught the attention of one of them.

Ignore it. It's the only thing to do. BTW, do you want to reset your cookie? Try it by going to membership at the top and follow the instructions for reset cookie. If you have a problem we can help and you can also post a message in the help forum.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Willa
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:47 AM

Yes, Pinkfiddle, on the whole it is a friendly site, but as in 'real life' there are a few (generally Anon)who enjoy upsetting others. Bear that in mind, and please continue to post. Let me make clear that I have no objection to anyone posting as a guest, even anonymously; I did that myself to begin with.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:50 AM

'Course its a friendly site, Pinkie. Just because some mannerless git of an outsider comes in and makes an a****le of him/her self doesn't mean we're all like that, right? Try not to let it get you down. Guest has probably just run out of dried frog pills.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:55 AM

Ah well, there are two (well probably more, actually) two things which you should keep in mind: some people are jerks. and two, "Illegitimi non carborundum".

I'd like to see the negative response you speak of. I'm willing to bet there is at least one spelling error. I am also certain that there are numerous syntax errors as well.

and I endorse Gareth's statement.

Consider the fact that this was an anonymous guest not a regular Mud Catter!

God bless

CB

just for the record I think that I'll "out" myself (even though it isn't necessary) I think the "moniker" device can be intimidating to some people:

Coyote Breath is Tom Meisenheimer 802 Maupin Ave. New Haven Missouri 63068 1(573) 237-3548 [e-mail] or [e-mail]

and anyone who wants to spend the nickle is certainly free to contact me in any fashion they wish to use and my door is always open, fire is in the stove, beer in the fridge, Bratwurst on the grill and no dust on the banjo

CB

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:57 AM

Chin up Pinky!!
To paraphrase an old saw about teachers. Those who can do, and those who can't criticise. My motto is if it feels good do it, and let the rest go hang, anyway you die if you worry, and you die if you don't worry.
SO WHY WORRY?.
Failte.....Jock

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 11:58 AM

Louisa,

Please don't be discouraged by Mudassholes, they are the clear minority who abuse their privileges. I for one would LOVE (hey, I shouted that!) to read your thesis.

I know it's no consolation, but for a considerable time I was personally flamed (I had posted my email addy here) because I stated a religious opinion, signed my posts with "Peace", liked guitar threads, and had somehow made someone feel abused by having a well considered opposing view. I outlasted the flamer and I haven't changed my modus operandi.

See you around?

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:10 PM

You will get the occasional flamers & trollers in ANY unmoderated forum. Mudcat doen't seem to attract as many as other places I have visited... Overall it is very friendly here.

Jon

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:14 PM

yeah pinkfiddle! I would like to read your thesis too! How can I get access to it? It sounds to me like a good subject. Did you say what your MA will be in? I mean; Anthropology, or Sociology, Musicology? (sp) or other?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:19 PM

Louisa, the fact that this is an open site means just about anyone can come in here and post anything. All the helpful and friendly people you've met here can't do a thing about the bad stuff, other than ignore it.

I suspect the insults and criticisms without any substance come from people who are somewhat desparate that others notice they exist. The anti-whatever nature of their posts may make them feel like an individual, as if disagreement automatically makes them more important.

Just look at the criticism. If there's no content, and it's just something like "that's a dumb idea," you may be dealing with someone just looking for attention - maybe even someone's lonely child who got on the family computer and found a new way to write graffiti. They aren't talking "to" people; they're talking "at" people. Is there anything to indicate it's not a pissed-off-at-the-world kid?

As to whether or not you hang around, I guess it comes down to which things have more importance for you: the helpful advice, friends and potential friends, or the graffiti-writers. Hopefully, the "good guys" will win.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:20 PM

We all have our BAD days, it's just that this person Guest,seems to have one every day. Just ignore it, post your MA on Folk revivals if you can stand the critisism that it will inevitably bring. Even though you laboured long and hard it will not be everyone's cup of tea. You can however totally ignore the straight "guests" opinion as they have no merit. I am really a member, I just end up posting from work at lunchtime (yeah I know it's a Saturday, first time in about 4 years that I couldn't get out of it) but I always use my mudcat name. Look forward to reading your work. JohnB

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From:
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:32 PM

Louisa, I am sorry that you have had problems with the anonymous "Guest" types. Hopefully you can ignore them, and not worry about their opinions.

I too would like to read your thesis. My e-mail is above if you would like to contact me. I assume you are using a word processor of some form. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:37 PM

Clearly anyone posting as GUEST (with no added monicker of any sort) wishes to be regarded as a sort of mayfly, making one single post and then vanishing away, rather than as someone who is interested in any kind of continuing discussion, or whose opinion needs to be treated as significant. Never assume that GUEST is the same as GUEST let alone GUEST.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 12:56 PM

Louisa, I say this to you from the perspective of an elder in these parts. The context should be taken as a scolding, given in a caring way. I am doing it because I care about having you here. You are good for the village that Max has created and many of us love dearly.

Ready? Why would a person with enough on the ball to have completed a Bachelor's AND to go on to study for a Masters, AND complete a thesis, be so silly as to feed these bottom dwelling slugs? You are smart enough to understand the psychology here, and conversly are to be chastised for feeling sorry for yourself, hence giving this cretin what s/he craves. In case you don't get it, IGNORE - IGNORE - IGNORE. You are respected among your peers here, and the opinions of those emotionally damaged carcasses who need to make others feel angry and upset so they can feel good about themselves are not relevant. Neither do they merit any response from the rest of us beyond telling them to take their meds, grab a cold coke, sit in the corner with a smile on their faces, and shut the feck up. Got it? Generally, if someone won't adopt a handle or ID themselves, they are not worthy of your time.

Chastising over. I, for one, enjoy having you here. I enjoy your posts, and find that the place is better for your presence. Don't ever let these 'roids get to you.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,McFart of Knowitall
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:06 PM

Louisa,

If you are as stupid as Big Mick implies, let me summarize his post for you.

Big Mick cannot believe that someone as stupid as you graduated from iniversity, let alone got into grad school. Big Mick would like you to ignore the flames. Presumably, including his.

You're right, Mudcat can be an unfriendly site. But you'll never get the Mudcat inner clique elite (what Big Mick calls the "elders") to admit it.

McFart of knowitall

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:21 PM

I am posting to demonstrate to you what I am talking about, Louisa.

First off, Louisa, you are a part of the inner clique already. I am very happy that you are.

Now, let us examine this last person's post. this cretin thinks folks are really dumb and easily manipulated. S/he starts with a moniker designed to get a rise. Cute. Won't work. I always chuckle at those that are so insecure about themselves that they call anyone else with an opinion contrary to theirs a "know it all". Saves them from having to exercise their inadequate intellect.

Next these mentally and emotionally challenged folks, deserving of pity and little else, will attempt to convince you that words mean something other than what they plainly mean. I got to this "person" so badly that they felt the need to defend themselves. Good. Shoe on the other foot. How's it fit?

So this was a nice try by this emotionally challenged flamer/troll. Ignore them, Louisa, as I am going to. I hope you will accept that what I am really saying in this thread is that you are a great Mudcatter and should NEVER consider leaving us because of a pathetic individual that continually tries to get his/her kicks by manipulating others. It is the only validation they get. A shame really. I wish their lives so far had provided them more self worth.

This is my last post in this thread.

Mick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:44 PM

Well, I have been pretty thoroughly flamed and harassed, and I'm still here. *G* But I did take some breaks when I needed to, sometimes by announcement and sometimes not... some days the a**holes really can get to you worse than others, eh?

Sometimes internet interaction gets under our skins faster than we are used to from 3D interactions... the medium takes us faster, neurologically, than our learned coping behaviors are set up to handle. Mudcat in particular is very fast, because of its design-- perhaps a hard place to learn one's first lessons about pacing one's internet life. We can start to spin...

When something happens here that one can't seem to let go of-- it just means your buttons have been pushed. Unhook, rethink, play some music... come back if and when that makes sense. See?

Yes, there are a**holes here.... but they are just people who bring that particular variety of baggage to their internet lives, as there are others who bring the type of baggage that takes things too hard from time to time. But even though there ARE people here wo do try to get a rise out of folks, or start trouble, that does not relieve us of our responsibility for ourselves-- and it does not mean we are not fully capable of deciding for ourselves how to think and how to respond internally rather than react externally. It does not mean there is something wrong with the PLACE... nor with you, either.... just that a break may be needed.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:50 PM

Yeah, kill this thread in case McArse of Soditall comes back.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:05 PM

Being an anonymous poster has NOTHING to do with a person's character. Nor does membership automatically make someone kind and good. There are certainly people of both extremes here, and membership or lack of it is not a factor.

I think the elders or whatever you wish to call them should get off the membership business as being the method to eradicate poor behaviour here. Certainly some of the members are just as guilty when it comes to rudeness. Perhaps they are even more responsible when it comes to the condescension which can make a person feel just as unwelcome.

I am not saying that there are not GUESTS who abuse the site with their sniping and petty comments, but being a guest does not automatically make your post worthless, something to be ignored. There are members' posts which are just as ignorable in my opinion.

Whether I post as GUEST, GUEST,Henry, [member] Henry, or some fanciful name such as Dingleberry would make no difference in what I have to say or what I think about what goes on here.

Having said all that, yes, it can be a friendly place, and that is what you will find most of the time. If you ask a question you are almost certain to meet with an honest attempt to answer your request. I won't mention those who are most likely to spend time and effort to answer your question because I would most certainly leave some out. Those who perform this valuable service for you know who they are, as do most of the people who come here even semi-regularly. They probably do not get enough thanks but that is the nature of serving sometimes.

There are others who may not ordinarily post requested lyrics, chords, or whatever for you, but will take a great amount of time and effort to answer your questions about instruments, theory, available recordings, and such a wide variety of other things as to be nearly mind boggling. The collected knowledge which is imparted to even a casual visitor is freely given, and I doubt that there is another place where you can gather so much hard to find information, and all of it free of charge.

If you need a particular recording or other information, some member [or yes, a non-member, too] is almost certain to tell you exactly where you can find it. Failing that, they may well offer to send you a tape or whatever else you require at their own expense. I could go on and on, but I expect I have already done that.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:22 PM

Because Henry makes a valid point, I will jump in and say this to him.

Henry, please accept my apologies if you think I was saying that anonymous posting makes one a creep. That is not what I meant to say and I am sorry for making it appear so. What I was saying is that flaming/trolling as an anonymous guest is everything that I described. It demonstrates that one is a coward and doesn't want to accept the responsibility for their words and action. This is how the cowardly person operates. They have no regard for this forum for what it means to the rest of us, rather as a place they can damage for their own needs. They have no stake in its survival, as they will just move on to the next. I guess it all boils down to intent, with a heavy dose of emotional instability providing the impetus. At any rate, I hope that you will accept my apologies.

When I use the word "elders" it is only used to denote length of time on the forum. Nothing more. Oddly enough to some, I see Gargoyle as an elder for the same reason. And he certainly wouldn't be considered part of any clique. But no matter how disappointed I get when he resorts to certain tactics, he always id's himself.

Glad you are here, GUEST Henry.

Mick who really is done with this thread now.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:26 PM

Mid all the logic, it still hurts to be called names on a public forum. Most of us have been on the receiving end of it one time or another Louisa. Sorry it is your turn. Just consider the source and move on.

Recently, I have been getting some flak from "GUEST". The latest - "SINSULL is not the brightest button in the box." GUEST is absolutely correct. I am the tarnished antique silver one, the priceless one of a kind, nestled amid all that flashy new brass.

Congratulations on your MA. I too requested and am still looking forward to reading your thesis. Keep in mind my limited mental capabilities - MA in Ancient Languages.
Mary

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,overweight drunken irish guy
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:28 PM

at 1:21, Big Mick said, and i quote, "This is my last post in this thread."

at 2:22, Big Mick was posting again.

wotta a feckin liar. but typical of the mudcat inner clique.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:33 PM

We can get into some pretty heated debates around here, but folks generally respect one another. A person's words can seem harsh if you can't imagine the smile, or the twinkling eye that would punctuate them in real life. The world is full of weirdos - most of the ones around here are behave kindly most of the time. Most of us can occasionally "lose it," and it takes our own concsiences or a friendly word to bring us back to rationality. The ones who don't don't care about being kind - those who flame because it makes them feel superior, or those who hang onto grudges, and go into anonymous troll mode...who cares? It's their problem - let 'em keep it.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:38 PM

Mick, I do understand. I was not directing my comments at you in particular, just a general comment about the prevailing attitude that some exhibit toward nonmembership. There were other such comments in this thread, and in any number of other threads as well.

My use of the word elder was not intended to be derogatory either, just a term you used which was used again by another. I am normally a person of few words or none at all, despite appearances here. I have been around far longer than my posts would indicate, so I suppose that makes me sort of an elder, too. So now I am done with this thread as well.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 02:59 PM

Louisa, I was there, right in the middle of the folk revival, and I'm eager to read what you have to say.

You are doing serious work in the field, and are to be honored for it.

Unfortunately, there are other, small persons who can make themselves feel big only by trying to pull other people down. They are to be pitied. And ignored. They're fairly easily identified. Especially when they emit "overweight drunken irish" belches and "Knowitall McFarts" about "inner cliques." Gasbags all!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: kendall
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 03:43 PM

Why give a stranger the power to hurt you? Why do you give a damn what he thinks?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 05:27 PM

Here is a picture of an elder.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 07:08 PM

I particularly like the beauty tip:
BEAUTY:Soak a handful of fresh elder, lime and cammomile flowers in hot water. Press to form a paste and place between two pieces of gauze as a face-pack.Leave on face for twenty minutes.

Now all we need is a volunteer...Mick???? Joe????

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 07:29 PM

I think if we soak a handful of elder it means we need more than one. Frankly, right now soaking in a hot bath of lime and chamomile flowers would be very nice. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

The pressing and pasting part might be unpleasant however. And I won't touch the facepack part with a ten-foot pole ... I'll leave that one for Catspaw ...

ww

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 07:41 PM

Pinkfiddle, I hope your cookie is restored soon, and that you'll tell us more about your MA work. Will you be posting it online at your university? Do you have an abstract you can post to the list now?

Maggie

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 08:14 PM

I'l remain anon for this one if you dont mind (& this is my 1st posting to this thread, in case anyone should think differently...)

Like everyone has been saying, Louisa, why give any credence to the 'opinions' (not that they actually ARE opinions) of one sad screw-up who thinks he is somehow better off by bringing you down? His (most likely a 'he' rather than a 'she', I'd guess) mentality is the same as that of a bullying Schoolchild who pushes into the Lunch Queue...he's not going to get to eat appreciably quicker unless he goes right to the front, but thats not the point of it all...the 'buzz' they get is from getting away with doing they know they shouldnt do, & shouldnt get away with. Its the same with a lot of Littering, with a lot of Jaywalking, with a lot of Mugging/Burglary/Theft/Assault..... & it varies only in DEGREE from Murder, Mass-Murder, & even arranging for planes to crash into the WTC, in my belief (& I AM in a position to put forward such a theory....)

I apologise if the comparison offends or upsets anyone....it might seem very wrong to compare something like this with the actions of O.B.L. but some of the aspects of his character have EXACTLY the same root, though there are many more signifcant ones that prompted the attacks & his other terrorist activity.

Another factor they have in common is hating Authority... & anyone with the power to prevent them from behaving in the way they want is an 'Authority figure'

His verbal attacks on an 'Inner Clique' are of course out of resentment that he's not part of it... other folks banding together in a group of friends is a conspiracy against him. The idea that others band together as a group who simply enjoy each others company is an alien concept to him, cos he has never been in that position, cos he has no social skills & therefore isn't inclused in any sociable grouping of that sort. Understandable really, as he sees himself as being superior to them, having never learned the lesson as a young child that he ISN'T the centre of the Universe. I'd posit the possibility that he is maybe an only child too. (Apologies to others here, & everywhere, who are also in the position of being an only child....they have, of course, learned the lesson in other ways than having a sibling)

Well, I have to admit I'm bored with typing this now... nothing is going to change with this person unless we COULD put them back in a Class of 7 year olds & let them work their way upwards again in hopes that this time it will make them a functional Adult...how many times would we be willing to do that though, if it wasnt working, before we give up, say 'Fuckit' & just shove him back up the junction of his Mothers legs?

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Deda
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 08:26 PM

Don't overlook that note under Myths -- Elders have powers against the devil and witches! And clearly staying power against geets, I mean gits, I mean unwelcome guests.

I think that Pinkfiddle and Sinsull BOTH deserve medals for getting MAs. I was working on one (in Classics, mostly Latin lit) but finally gave up, decided I really didn't have the energy or the fire in the belly, or whatever it was going to require. (I was 50ish when I started it, 52 now.) I still have one paper to finish up and then I'm out of Academia. These high achievers really impress me and deserve high praises, much credit. Brava, Bravo.

Pinkfiddle, I haven't been here long, myself, but if folk music is really a strong interest and an important piece of your life, don't leave. This place has value for you. It would be like giving up a career around horses because of a particularly obnoxious fly. Here's the thing to remember about people who are talking about you, whether for good or bad: sooner or later they stop. That's really all you need to know about them.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 08:33 PM

Hi Louisa. Cookieless member has nailed it squarely. The motivation to strike out and hurt somebody because it gives you pleasure, is the same in the schoolyard, on an internet forum, or at the fuse end of a bomb. Only the results are different.

Just try to laugh it off. Mudcat is infinitely friendlier than REAL life....and that is because of what brought the vast majority of us together......MUSIC.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:47 AM

Getting my Master's Degree has eliminated, well nearly, my urge to read. So I play a lot of music. I'd love to read your Thesis -

Steve

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: SeanM
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:35 AM

I find the 'cat to be an incredibly friendly site.

Then again, I don't read anonymous posts unless later correspondence between people I respect suggests that an anonymous guest had something relevant to say. Other than that, unless I'm in the mood to see the most puerile and disgusting side of humanity, I scroll right on past.

M

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:42 AM

I guess I don't understand why people want to hurt others. I suspect I'm insensitive sometimes and have always posted my e-mail where people can find it and tell me so. So far only one has on the boards I participate in. That's why I joined here after being a posting reader for a year. I don't really see why people don't join, this place isn't a spam producer.

Having said all that, Pinkfiddle, the hell with those who bug you. A certain amount of thick skin is required in the music world. Screw those who envy you so much that thay try to hurt you. Sniveling persons who had problems with personality development at an early age. Refuse to allow their toilet training problems be yours.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 05:10 AM

I'm drifting here, but so what. But "Cookieless Member" - isn't that just a great mudname? Sort of potentially rude but not quite defined.

As for the kind of thing that has been getting to pinkfiddle, I think it's best to think of it as weather rather than anything, and not to take it personally. "It's pissing down again today" you might say, and that can be annoying - but you don't waste time getting cross with the weather itself, or think you are somehow at fault yourself. You just put up a brolly and do what you were planning, or stay indoors and do something else.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 05:20 AM

It reminds me of the phenomenon, prevalent in some parts of the UK, of playing non-stop music on the breaker channel of CB radio. The most incomprhensible thing is what they get out of it,when they can't see our reactions to their infantile behaviour. At least on this forum they sometimes get the satisfaction of a response when someone cracks, and responds to their uninformed utterances. Yes I've given in and done it myself, and although sometimes I'm secretly pleased with my wounding response, I suspect that it's falling on stony ground,and I shouldn't have reacted in the first place. Another sad thing is that when you confront people with these character flaws, and ask them why they do it, the usual answer is "I don't know". So perhaps the most appropriate response is pity, coupled with the phone number of a good analyst.
Failte....Jock

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Sourdough
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 06:34 AM

I stopped reasding the trolling threads a ways back as the Anonymous Poster refined his technique to establish discord, So after several weeks, I decided to read this thread. It's been kind of fun. It turns out that "He Who Must be Anonymous" has been playing his one-string instrument so long, running through a scale of limited notes including "inner clique", "close minded", "elite", and "unfriendly" all sung in the key of P (for patronizing) that it has lost its power to charm. As I read through the posts, I had a couple of thoughts. HWMBA has kept this song up for so lohg now that there are a lot of new people in "the inner clique" since he started. That kinds of weakens his argument about exclusivity of The Inner Clique". It's open to whomever wants to post as a part of a diaglogue, not produce a harrangue.

The other thing that struck me was that there were several anonymous posts in this thread that were clearly heartfelt and articulate. Although I didn't agree with some things said by them, I don't need to, that's what a dialogue is.

The thread does show that readers tend not to anonymous hostile posts very seriously. That one particular tune has become somewhat boring. Luckily, the responses aren't.

Sourdough

For what its worth, I particularly liked many of the points Big Mick made.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 09:13 AM

Big Mick is one of the best bushes around, judging from the picture. I just wann know how he got so many berries and whether this affects his performance! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 11:26 AM

It doesn't matter how many stinging comments you can get in. The objective of a troll is to get you to fight - with them or someone else. Poke it with a stick, and see if it moves. Zinger posted: troll's objective met.

Once you sense that the person you're arguing with is basing their opinions on 1)delusions, or 2)lies, it's best to quit the game. Their delusions or lies will change to be whatever they need to support their "argument," and yours will probably still be based on facts which don't change. You can't keep up.

In an argument (or a thesis, for that matter), support for an idea is required. You state an opinion, then you provide evidence to support that opinion. When you read trolling comments, you soon realise the support is either non-existant, consists of more of their own opinions, or the connection between the facts and their assertions/opinions makes no sense whatsoever.

The conclusion you come to is that the poster is someone who simply wants to see their words on the screen, even when they don't really have anything to say. They want to have some effect on a person or persons. They've found one thing in life that's worthy of their efforts, and that thing is being obnoxious.

It's hard to get angry at trolls when I think about what's behind all the trolling. I look at what they choose to do with their time here, and wonder how miserable their lives must be to choose baiting others. I wonder if they go through life collecting grudges and throwing out all the good things to make room. Perhaps one day, grudges will be all they have left. It's sad to think about, but they choose their own path.

I think the people who leave here, and post indignant goodbye rants about their disillusionment, are grudge-collectors. Depending on what actions (if any) they believe their grudges justify, they can (and probably have) become some of our anonymous trolls. It's a shame that they let those grudges have so much power over them.

There are more of us here who collect friends. We thrive on kindnesses and the magic that happens when we touch each other's hearts. We forgive perceived wrongs, because we choose love over our need to be right. We share feelings in story and song. There are bad things in the world, but unless we let them destroy the sense of wonder we have when we find something beautiful, we win.

It's all here, the good and the bad. What folks find here depends on what they look for.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:17 PM

Well, McGrath,Cookieless Member is a better Mudcat name (and situation, I'd guess) than Memberless Cookie ...

Cookieless Member's analysis is good because narcissism (he didn't call it that,but he gave a good definition) is at the heart of this kind of poopy behavior. It's a personality that's developed (or fails to develop) even before the age of 7 and is the source of so much problematic behavior in our society -- spousal abuse, stalking, etc. And I hadn't even considered it before, but terrorism is a sort of group narcissism, a Me and the Other oreientation that's at the heart of narcissism, writ large: "You either feel and think what I feel and think or you don't deserve to exist..."

As I understand it (in my limited way and in extremely simplistic terms), narcissism grows out of a vacuum (physical or emotional) in the relationship with the father, or an abusive relationship with the father, and is characterized by a disgust with and hatred for the mother, the female principle, because she failed to protect the child. I'd say that applies to the examples Cookieless Member mentioned.

ww

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:35 PM

Yep, & such an attitude, I strongly suspect, has links with Mysogynism, though I havent seen any research supporting that notion.

I have to say I feel pleased that people have picked up so much on my comments. Considering what I was saying, I think I expected some strong reactions against, simply because I was saying something that is quite harsh, rather than simply pitying the Guest in question.

(& I'm also happy that I seem (I HOPE) to have covered all my bases quite well, & not offended others who might be an only child).

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:47 PM

Well CM, I'm an only child and I'm too stupid to be offended I guess. Whatever it is y'all are talkin' about sounds real good and I wish all of you the best when you write your thesis on this. Send me a copy huh? I like having things around that make me look smart......like my collection of small print "Dick and Jane" books!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:54 PM

It's interesting that we all seem to assume that the people who go in for this are male. My gut feeling is that this is actually the case. Maybe that interpretation by WyoWoman and Cookieless Member provide a rationale for thinking that.

As for whether talking about the poor sods is some kind of reward which could encourage them, maybe so. But on my analogy with weather, you're going to get weather whatever you do. You don't quarrel with weather or get into fights, but talking about weather is pretty customary where I live anyway.

And sometimes we even get good weather. That'd be nice wouldn't it? Do you ever get anti-flamers - people who post anonymous compliments and so forth. I'd have thought it'd be just as much fun, and just as good a way of getting attention.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:04 PM

Hehehehe...

but youre a member of the 'Inner Clique', 'Spaw..thats like having a 'Family' round you, I'd suspect.......*G*

(& lest anyone thinks different, I'm CERTAINLY not in it... I havent been footling around the 'cat for that long really)

I cant help but wonder what our 'Guest' thinks makes someone a member of the 'Inner Clique'....(& I really wish there was something else by which it could be referred to....calling it the 'Inner Clique' to my mind, almost makes it sound like the 'sinister', elistist group that this 'Guest' believes it to be.....being as how he's too Sociopathic & such a social misfit as to not realise that groups of friends 'coagulate' together in ANY setting. I mean that its a normal human social thing for like-minded folks with common interests to flock together...)

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: Genie
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:22 PM

Good one, WyoWoman! ("...Memberless Cookie...")

Pinkfiddle, congrats on finishing your Master's.  (Hope it serves you better in the long-term employment market than my post-graduate degree has.  Worth having done it, nevertheless!)

I finally found an easy way of avoiding being cookieless (usually works, anyway).  I bookmarked my Personal Page.  If I enter Mudcat by going to that bookmark, I am automatically signed in.  (In the rare event that my "cookie has expired," I am already at the sign-in site and all I have to do is enter my name and password.)  This way, I don't have to access Mudcat and then go to the sign-in place, etc.   Now I am almost always signed in, unless I am on a different computer  or deliberately signing in anonymously so I can heckle folks.

Just kidding about the heckling, but once in a while I post an innocuous question, lyric request, or comment under some silly pseudonym such as Wilda Beest or some other dumb name.  I'm with Cookieless Member on this one.  Yes, I think it's rude and cowardly to throw verbal stones from the cover of anonymity.  But not all questions or comments need to be identified with their source.  Sometimes it's irrelevant, period.  At other times, one may want a point to be evaluated on its own merits, uncontaminated by association with its source.   At still others, a post may contain a personal story that one wants to share without everyone knowing those details of one's personal life.  (I might want to tell a funny story about my [hypothetical] sex life because it's an interesting  story, without folks knowin whom the story is about.   Being anonymous is not necessarily heinous.

Anyway, Pinkfiddle, most of us don't bite, so please ignore the ones who do.

Dr. J

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat a friendly site?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:49 PM

I think that Max, awhile back referred to a "Core Group" of "regulars" that he tended to listen to more about changes. He phrased it that this was the group that was always around and most often involved in doing things from answering requests, to adding tunes in Midi, to just general BSing.....and it's obviously true. The makeup of that "Core Group" changes as their ability to participate changes and ANYONE can be a part of it. Amos for instance is a part of that group although he spent a long period off the 'Cat. Same with WyoWoman.

New folks become a part of it all the time and others drift away. Perfectly natural. The "Clique" thing IS intended to portray something sinister as though Max and this entire is site is coerced into actions only allowed by the this group. The idea is ludicrous and is obviously not the case. The basis of it lies in the "Core Group" and that there are a few in the core who are here all the time.......Me, Sorcha, kat, BillD., Mario, etc......We have a regular meeting to plot the course of Mudcat and stomp out that which we don't like BTW..........

Bottom line? This is a damn friendly site for one of it's size. Growth has garnered both amazing input and complete assholes for the Mudcat. I suppose you can expect that with the growth.......and for all of those who do find it a friendly place, it's easy to get mad when someone says it isn't.........oh well...........

Liked Rick's comments and Amos' too....the stuff's getting to be old hat anymore....

Spaw