Subject: RE: Origins/Tune Req: The MTA Song From: johnross Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM The original version of "M.T.A.," as recorded for a campaign sound truck, is included in the great 10-CD set, "Songs for Political Action," released on Bear Family in 1966 and still widely available. The singer is "an unidentified vocalist -- probably Arnold Steiner [part of a group of singers who performed at O'Brien's rallies]." The notes say that it was taken from an acetate that is now in the Smithsonian Folkways collection, but it doesn't seem to exist on any Folkways release. |
Subject: RE: Origins/Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:56 AM I sing MTA often at local (Cape Breton) concerts and jams. There are close family ties between Cape Breton Island and Boston so the local audience relates well to the song. I do it more in fun than in protest because the irony is lost, but the story and tune get the folks jumping. |
Subject: RE: Origins/Tune Req: The MTA Song From: dick greenhaus Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM The chorus is a paraphrase of the original "Ship That Never Returned" |
Subject: ADD Verses: The MTA Song From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:36 PM This page (click) has a transcription of "The MTA" that has two more verses than the Kingston Trio version. This appears to be the original Hawes-Steiner song. The Song: "M.T.A." Let me tell you the story of a man named Charlie On a dark and fateful day He put ten cents in his pocket and he kissed his loving family And he went to ride the M.T.A. CHORUS: Did he ever return? No, he never returned And his fate is still unlearned. He may ride forever 'neath the streets of Boston He's the man who never returned Charlie handed in his dime at the Kendall Square station Then he changed for Jamaica Plain When he got there the conductor told him, "One more nickel!" Charlie couldn't get off that train. [Note: The Kingston Trio did not record this verse] As his train rolled on through Greater Boston Charlie looked around and sighed "Well, I'm sore and disgusted and I'm absolutely busted I guess this is my last long ride." Now all night long Charlie rides through the tunnel Saying, "What will become of me? And, how can I afford to see my sister in Chelsea Or my brother in Roxbury? [Note: Hawes and Steiner wrote this stanza but it was not included in the original recording.] "I can't help," said the conductor "I'm just working for a living but I sure agree with you For the nickels and dimes you'll be spending in Boston You'd be better off in Timbuktu." Charlie's wife goes down to the Scollay Square station Every day at a quarter past two And through the open window she hands Charlie a sandwich As his train goes rumbling through Now, citizens of Boston, don't you think it is a scandal That the people have to pay and pay? Vote for Walter A. O'Brien and fight the fare increase Get poor Charlie off that M.T.A.! The "M.T.A.," by Jacqueline Steiner and Bess Lomax Hawes. Copyright, Atlantic Music Corp. Above is the original song written in 1949. The Kingston Trio version, recorded in 1959, is available on several Web sites. |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The MTA From: Amos Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:46 PM The chords are (in G) G, C, D, and A, or 1-2-4-5 in any key you choose. A |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The MTA From: oldhippie Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM re: the refrain - why don't you ask the author? Jacqueline Steiner (who co wrote MTA with Bess Hawes), is still around. A slightly different version of the song is on her CD "Far Afield". |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The MTA From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:48 AM The refrain and the song about Charlie was more based on The Ship That Never Returned than on The Wreck Of The Old (Southern) 97. Henry Whitter wrote "97" along two with others and he first recorded it in the mid 1920's using a modified "Ship" tune. Vernon Dalhart recorded it a bit later along with the Prisoners Song on the flip side. That record is said to have been the first million seller. I believe that MTA was first recorded by The Almanacs or Weavers and it was a political campaign song. |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The MTA From: llareggyb (inactive) Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:26 AM Oops! I see the above-mentioned lyrics were posted on the thread Lyr Add: Wreck of the Old 97 and are in the DT database under the title WRECK OF OLD 97. Somehow, my search didn't turn up that version. The tune does seem to be closer to the Ballad of the MTA. BTW, does anyone know if the refrain was written especially for the Kingston Trio MTA version, or does it originate elsewhere (it's not in the Old 97 versions I've seen ... so far, that is). Tony |
Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The MTA From: llareggyb (inactive) Date: 17 Sep 08 - 03:42 AM I have a sheet music copy of "The Wreck of the Old 97", substantially the same tune & chords (without the refrain), but completely different words (5 verses) from THE WRECK OF 97 in the DT. The style of the narrative is much closer to "The MTA" — I would guess this version, rather than the one in the DT, was the inspiration for the latter. It dates originally from 1924, by Henry Whitter, Charles W. Noell & Fred J. Lewey (Pub: Shapiro, Bernstein & Co., New York). Unfortunately, I can't post the lyrics here as they appear to be still under copyright (1944 - but wouldn't that have expired by now?), but if anyone can't find the sheet music easily I'll be happy to email you the lyrics or a scan — just send me a message here, or to be sure of catching me email tony@patriarche.net. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: oldhippie Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM Co-writer Jacqueline Steiner has a new rendition of MTA; its on her CD Far Afield. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: retrancer Date: 04 Apr 07 - 07:17 PM thats the version i know - scalded to death!!! |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Scoville Date: 28 Feb 07 - 04:53 PM Is that like "Buddy, better roll down the line/Yonder comes my darlin' moving down the line" by . . . one of those old guys. Uncle Dave Macon? Grandpa Jones? Dock Boggs? I forget. I meant the one that has the gruesome verse about "they found him in the wreck with his hand on the throttle/Scalded to death by the steam". |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: leeneia Date: 28 Feb 07 - 03:19 PM I think there's been a mix-up here because the trio sang a song that went Buddy, better get on down the line (2x) Here comes 97, makin up some time... It's one of my favorite songs. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Songster Bob Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:21 PM The Boston Metro farecards are called "Charlie Cards." Thought you'd like that little piece of information. Bob |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:55 PM Several of Henry Clay Work's old tunes were reworked or otherwise used in later songs. Discussed above in previous posts. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Scoville Date: 26 Feb 07 - 04:10 PM "Wreck of Old 97" has no chorus so the "did he ever return" part does not fit, but the verse tune is the same. Or essentially the same, with the understanding that we don't all play everything the same way. I'd say it's a cousin of the MTA song rather than an ancestor but both share either all or part of the tune to "Ship that Never Returned". |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: fumblefingers Date: 25 Feb 07 - 08:05 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VIaicLSSH4 |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:57 PM Original sheet music for "The Ship That Never Returned," Henry Clay Work, 1885, S. Brainard's Sons, in an arrangement for guitar, as well as voice, is available from American Memory. The words are in the DT. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Sorcha Date: 19 Feb 07 - 06:30 PM And I stand corrected. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: retrancer Date: 19 Feb 07 - 03:41 PM I have not listened to the MTA song for years but was flatpicking the wreck of the old 97 the other day as it is one of my standards,. For the way i play old 97, the MTA song would not really fit, it is similar but not the same, since i play (fairly poorly) by ear mostly, I cannot really explain this but the major diff is the chorus melody line where "his fate is still unknown" that will not work with the 97 melody. I'm fairly new here and think the world of "the cat" |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Reiver 2 Date: 19 Feb 07 - 01:17 PM This thread has been a fascinating read for me. When the Kingston Trio came out with the MTA song, I was aware that it's predecesor was "The Ship That Never Returned, which I had learned as a boy. A version was printed in a small book which I still have, "The Treasure Chest of Homespun Songs," published in 1935 by Treasure Chest Publications, Inc., NY, NY, but with no credit given for the author. That version had only 3 verses and the tune, while the same as the KT's MTA song differs from that in the DT. The lyrics I learned were: THE SHIP THAT NEVER RETURNED On a summer's day, while the waves were rippling With a quiet and gentle breeze A ship set sail with a cargo laden For a port beyond the sea. CHO: Did she ever return? No, she never returned, And her fate is still unlearned, Though for years and years there were dear ones waiting For the ship that never returned. There were sad farewells, there were friends forsaken And her fate is still unlearned, But a last poor man set sail as commander On the ship that never returned. And we'll live in peace and joy forever And enjoy all we have earned, But they sent him forth with a smile and a blessing On a ship that never returned. Although they're not in the version in this book, I also remember verses about the "feeble lad and his aged mother" and also other verses similar to those posted by Dicho. I may have learned them from Carl Sandberg's "American Songbag." (I think The Ship That Never Returned is included in that book, though I don't have a copy of it handy.) I know the song is included in Sandberg's "Flat Rock Ballads" recording, but there are probably variations in the lyrics (I don't have a copy of the recording.) I knew the MTA song was inspired by an actual political campaign in Boston, but didn't know, or had forgotton, the details. Thanks, again Dicho -- and thanks to all who've posted on this thread. Reiver 2 |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Haruo Date: 15 Jan 02 - 11:41 PM Actually, Steve, I don't think there's any reason to put the Wreck of the Old 97 in the genealogy of the MTA song; the latter is clearly based directly on the Ship. Wreck and MTA have a common ancestor in Ship, but are siblings or cousins of each other, not lineal relatives. Liland |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: GUEST,Steve N. Date: 15 Jan 02 - 05:44 PM OF COURSE "MTA" was written to the tune of "The Wreck of the Old 97", which was written to the tune of the older song, and so on- that's the folk tradition. Bess Hawes, a very bright and also sweet-natured woman who was my Folk Music teacher in 1967, adapted a melody for her song that was commonly known and still often heard around the time of "MTA"'s writing. You can bet she didn't go rummaging around in some old book of 1850s songs hunting up an "original version" to crib from. The Almanac Singers (Woody, Butch Hawes, Millard Lampell, Pete, Bess, etc.) and lots of others from that era often wrote songs on the spur of the moment about some current event, and they just grabbed some melody that was familiar and massaged it around a little. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Jan 02 - 02:18 AM A friend thought I was disparaging the Kingston Trio for leaving the political slogans out of their version. No such thing. If they had left them in, they wouldn't have had a hit. The original was a political statement as well as a song; anyone wanting to present the song outside of the Boston area would have removed the "Vote for" stuff. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Mark Cohen Date: 15 Jan 02 - 02:01 AM Everybody who complains about how the Mudcat "ain't what it used to be", and is "annoying", and has "nothing but bullshit", and all that other hogwash should read through this thread. And dozens of others like it. And everybody who complains that all the thoughtful helpful people have gotten fed up and left the Mudcat ought to meet Dicho and Masato. Mahalo a nui loa! (Big long thank you!) Aloha, Mark |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: masato sakurai Date: 15 Jan 02 - 12:27 AM Dicho, thanks for the info. (And I should mind my definite article from now on.) Another sheet music (Cleveland: Brainard's. S. Sons, 1885) of "The Ship That Never Returned") is in the Library of Congress sheet music collection (Click here). Sara and Maybelle Carter sang a folk version of it on An Historic Reunion (KOC-CD-7925). ~Masato |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Jan 02 - 02:27 PM There seems to be some confusion about the history of the song, "Charlie on the MTA" (The MTA Song). Written in 1948 and © by Jacqueline Steiner and Bess Lomax Hawes, one of seven songs written for the campaign of Walter A. O'Brien, Progressive Party candidate for mayor of Boston. One of his promises was to reduce fares on the MTA (now MBTA). The song was recorded by the Almanac Singers, one of whom was Pete Seeger. One recording of each song was made and they were broadcast from a sound truck. O'Brien was fined $10 for disturbing the peace. A singer named Will Holt recorded the story of Charlie for Coral Records. The record company received protests from Boston because the song made a hero out of a local radical (During the McCarthy era in the 1950s, the Progressive Party became synonymous with the Communist Party). Holt's record was withdrawn by Coral. Not until 1959 did the Kingston Trio record the song. The name Walter A. was changed to George to avoid the problems that Holt experienced. They also omitted this verse: As his train rolled on Underneath Greater Boston Charlie looked around and sighed: "Well, I'm sore and disgusted And I'm absolutely busted; I guess this is my last long ride." (Also, in the 1st verse, the Kingstons changed tunnels to station. They also shortened the chorus and left out some of the political message) Walter A. O'Brien lost the election, returned to Maine in 1957, and became a school librarian and a bookstore owner. He died in 1998. Another man damaged by the McCarthy era. Condensed from the MIT website. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Jan 02 - 01:46 PM Did he ever return? Yes, he did. "In the mid 1980s, the fare for senior citizens was reduced to 10 cents. Charlie had a wife and family (read: kids) so we'll assume that he was at least 21 when he first got on the tain. By 1983, he would have been 65 years old, would have qualified for a senior citizen fare of ten cents, which he had paid in full at Kendall, and would have gotten off the train at Jamaica Plain. Now as for getting back..." Quoted from the MIT website, which I gave in an earlier posting to this thread. |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE SHIP THAT NEVER RETURNED From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Jan 02 - 01:26 PM "The Ship That Never Returned," original by Work, is in the DT, but disguised. The word "The" begins the title. A folk singer version is also in the DT, but entered as "Ship That Never Returned." One of the vagaries of Mudcat. There is an excellent version in the Max Hunter Folk Song Collection, sung by Clyde "Slim" Wilson (1958). In this song, the Captain is the central figure; he becomes the feeble one in verse six. THE SHIP THAT NEVER RETURNED (Wilson) On a Summer's day while the waves were ripplin' With a quiet and gentle breeze A ship set sail, with a cargo laden For a port beyond the sea. Did she ever return, no, she never returned And her fate is still unlearned But alas, poor man, set sail commander On a ship that never returned. There were sad farewells, there were friends forsaken, An' her fate is still unlearned But alas, poor man, set sail commander On a ship that never returned. Said a feeble lad, to his aged mother, I must cross the wide, wide sea They say perchance in a foreign country There is strength and health for me. "Tis a gleam of hope and a maze of danger And her fate is still unlearned And alas, poor man, set sail commander On a ship that never returned. Just one more trip, said the feeble Captain As he kissed his weeping wife Just one more purse of that golden treasure It will last us all through life. Then we'll live in peace and joy together And enjoy all I have earned So they set him forth, with a smile and a blessing On a ship that never returned. Did she ever return, no, she never returned And her sad fate is still unlearned Tho' for years an' years there's been fond hearts waiting For the ship that never returned. To hear Wilson's rendition, click on Links at top of page and go to Max Hunter Collection. @sea @sailor |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: MMario Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:37 AM Barbara - I seem to recall the name connected with the song from high school days. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Barbara Shaw Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:34 AM We had a friend named Al Katz who died a few years ago, who claimed to have been one of the group of friends in Boston who sat around and wrote the MTA song. Anyone ever hear of this? |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Jan 02 - 09:17 AM Nice to see the original words of "The Ship That Never Returned", Masato. My mother sings a version of that which has been extensively "folk processed" and in my opinion greatly improved. She'll be delighted to see a copy of the original. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Jan 02 - 12:11 AM There is a long discussion of "The Wreck of the Old 97" and its antecedents in Norm Cohen's book, the Long Steel Rail. The Metrorail Song, a shortened version of "Charlie on the MTA" (The MTA Song) is in the DT, but the full song is not in the DT or the Forum. The Kingston Trio changed some words and left out a verse. "Charlie On the MTA" is © by Jacqueline Steiner and Bess Lomax-Hawes. Only 2 copies of the original recording are known to exist. Find another and you can buy a world cruise at the least. The full song and story are on the Mass. Inst. Tech. site: http://web.mit.edu/jdreed/www/t/charlie.html |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Muskrat Date: 13 Jan 02 - 11:43 PM You could always try here: http://home.att.net/~kingstontrioplace/ for more information than you could possibly want. Check "lyrics" and "liner notes" first. Then, if you still aren't satisfied, post your question on the BB -- you won't be the first! |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Bob Bolton Date: 13 Jan 02 - 08:55 PM G'day all, The MTA Song was originally a political campaign song - targetting the Boston incumbents' strange fare rise whereby the 10¢ at a turnstile to enter the station was retained ... but a new turnstile collected another 5¢ to let you out. The story is printed in my Sing Out Reprints ... somewhere. Apparently, there were protests at the time the Kingston trio put out their version, from people who objected to "politics" being involved in folk songs ... ?!? The words seem to be a pretty straight parody of the Henry Clay Work original ... much like a number of trades parodies found here in Australia. However, the KT probably had the later version of the tune rattling about in their heads, so it would inevitably drift that way. Regards, Bob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Mark Cohen Date: 13 Jan 02 - 07:13 PM Ah, I shouldn't have backed down so quickly without doing the research. Thanks, Snuffy. So we're all right! Here's The Wreck of Old 97 in the DT, with a MIDI of the verse. Oh, me of little faith! Aloha, Mark |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Snuffy Date: 13 Jan 02 - 06:56 PM The Wreck of the Old 97 is an adaptation of H Clay Work's original tune. As I recall the KT version was closer to the train than the ship. WassaiL! V |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Mark Cohen Date: 13 Jan 02 - 06:25 PM Well I was right....I was wrong! Thanks, that corrected a bit of misinformation I've been carrying around for a long time! Aloha, Mark |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: GUEST,Guest Date: 13 Jan 02 - 06:22 PM It is "The Ship that Never Return'd", words and music by Henry Clay Work, 1865. A later issue by the same music publishers as the original, 1884 (the year that Work died), can be seen in the Levy sheet music collection. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Sorcha Date: 13 Jan 02 - 06:01 PM Definitly NOT Wreck of the '97. |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: Mark Cohen Date: 13 Jan 02 - 05:47 PM Actually, I think it's an old railroad song called "The Wreck of Old 97". But I could be wrong. Aloha, Mark |
Subject: RE: Tune Req: The MTA Song From: GUEST,Dale Date: 13 Jan 02 - 04:18 PM Check out The Ship That Never Returned. It's in the DT. |
Subject: The MTA Song From: GUEST,TheOldMole Date: 13 Jan 02 - 03:41 PM It's not really a tune request, because I know the tune, but I didn't know what else to call it. It's a "what the hell is the tune?" request. What is the original song that goes to the tune that the Kingston Trio used for The MTA Song?Well, I know that, the folk process being what it is, there are probably lots of answers to this. I'll take any or all. So maybe this is a lyric request. So shoot me. |
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