Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Noreen Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM I've only ever heard it completely in 3/4. ...Bevington Bush which had an inn called simply the Bush, which became a favourite haunt for folk to travel out into the country, to the Bevy Inn... Hence, going for a Bevy?! |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Les in Chorlton Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:51 AM "The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s ... " Was Seth Davy black, then? Chances are... |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: banjoman Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM I have known this song a long time, and when I first learnt it I remember my Mum telling me that her Grandmother had related how she had seen a man with dancing dolls outside the Bevington Bush pub which stood on the junction of bevington Bush and Scotland Road - I remember that - so it probably confirms the date suggested by White Canary. |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM I was told that Bevington Bush was the site of the old Liverpool Sally Army Hostel. |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,White Camry Date: 08 Jan 09 - 03:35 PM "The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s ... " Was Seth Davy black, then? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday From: Mr Happy Date: 08 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM So clearly, the DT version is off the mark as it mentions strings being pulled to work the dolls. The plank or wooden beam isn't referred to at all |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Bernard Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:36 PM I've always done both entirely in 3/4... Bill the Sound... don't let Manitas hear you say that! I had the temerity to post a link to a website... it seems that someone had already mentioned the Glyn Hughes connection... sshhh!! ;o) |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,Bill the sound Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:30 PM I found this track on a Max Boyce album, The Miles and the Roads he gives credit to Glyn Hughes, I hope he's right. Bill |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:27 PM I never bothered to think about it but isn't part of it 4/4 and part 3/4? I, however, do "the WIld Mountain Thyme" in 4/4. |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Bernard Date: 14 Dec 08 - 06:35 PM Uhh?!! |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Joybell Date: 14 Dec 08 - 04:56 PM Does anyone else keep falling into 3/4 time while singing this song, or is it just me? |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:38 AM It occurs to me that the ranges of local words to this song is supportive of the Karpeles defintion. |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: scouse Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:56 AM I learn these words over on the "posh." side. i.e. The one eyed city!! His tired old hands drummed wooden beams And the puppet Dolls they danced the gear A better show ever, that you would see At the Tivvie (Tivoli) or New Brighton Pier An on some stormy night down "Scotty." road way When the wind's blows up from the sea You can still hear the sound of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three. As Aye, Phil. |
Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,DESI Date: 14 Dec 08 - 07:28 AM As an Irish singer who performs this song, I can confirm that indeed it's not an Irish song at all, but as most people point out it stems from Liverpool where there was a real street entertainer named Seth Davel. Many somgs get 'adopted' by my country folk and Seth Davely has the sound of a good Irish song, bit like Dirty Old Town who many Irish and English believe to be Irish, in fact the 'dirty old town' in question refers to the home town of the writer Ewan Mc'coll, Salford near Manchester. It's a cedit to Glyn Hughes writing skills that many including myself originally thought it to be a much older traditional song, I'll be singing Seth Davey tonight 14/12/08 as it happens Desi, the artist formerly known as, who? |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,Rich Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:34 PM For info, from www.fsc.org Whisky on a Sunday, AKA Come Day, Go Day, AKA Seth Davy was written in the 1960s by Glyn Hughes. Hughes was born in Liverpool in 1932 and died there in 1972. During his brief life he had many occupations: journalist, short-story writer, bookseller's assistant, musician in a circus, film extra, hotel liftman and song writer, to mention only a few. The song is about a well-known Jamaican street entertainer in Liverpool in the 1890s/1900s and has been recorded by among others The Dubliners, The Irish Rovers and Rolf Harris. Gerry Jones, Liverpool singer, says: "Seth Davy was a real person, he really existed, and he died a couple of years into the 20th century. There was a street and a pub, both called Bevington Bush just north of Liverpool City Centre, and Seth Davy did do a busking act outside. "In his book Liverpool: Our City - Our Heritage, Freddie O'Connor tells us that in 1760, half a mile from Marybone (St Patrick's Cross) along Bevington Bush Road was a hamlet named Bevington Bush which had an inn called simply the Bush, which became a favourite haunt for folk to travel out into the country, to the Bevy Inn, as it became fondly known. With the opening of Scotland Road, the ancient Bevington Bush Road became a minor road amidst the massive slum district that would soon engulf it. As the district was built up it also lost its original name. "Please do not be taken in by any Irish versions of this song, or any reference to "Bebbington". Bebington is "over the water" - not in Liverpool at all. I know the truth for a fact because, when I was a brand-new teacher in the Dingle in 1963, our old lollypop man told me that he had actually seen Seth Davy doing his stuff. So I have spoken to a first-hand witness. "I have heard that Seth Davy's own singing was a non-too-wonderful monotone, and not the pleasant melody that was written about him in the 60s folk boom." |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,machree01 Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:18 AM I have a Danny Doyle album, called "Whiskey On A Sunday" {1968} the song remained at No. 1 in the Irish charts for 10 weeks. |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,Jake Date: 12 Nov 08 - 05:41 PM The Houghton Weavers did a terrific version of this song. It's sang beautifully and the melody is lovely. |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: SINSULL Date: 12 Nov 08 - 03:30 PM Mr. Happy, if a song is good, it doesn't matter when it was written. Share it. |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:55 AM Its a little disappointing to find that many've the songs I'd thought old & traditional were actually composed in the 1960s & 70s |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: John MacKenzie Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:12 AM Jig Dolls. JM |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Manitas_at_home Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:50 AM ...and not Glyn Hughes as credited in the first couple of postings then? |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Bernard Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:37 AM According to this site the writer was Glyn Hughes... |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 04:41 AM ps not the kind with strings. The dolls were wooden with jointed limbs, had a stick in their backs, & the puppeteer sat on the stave & banged it with a fist, so that the dolls danced a sort've tapdance! |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Nov 08 - 04:38 AM Jackie & Bridie used to do this song & had dolls dancing on a wooden stave as accompaniment |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Arkie Date: 11 Nov 08 - 10:50 PM The lyrics above indicate that the dolls were puppets worked by strings. My recollection of the song referred to the dancing dolls mentioned above which are also called Limberjims here in the Arkansas Ozarks. |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: breezy Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:18 PM nobody has mentioned the Spinners, till now, who may be able throw further light on the subject. Any Spinners out there? |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: GUEST,manda Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM The song was written in liverpool - but changed to suit the irish |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday From: Matthew Edwards Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:22 PM Its nice to see this topic revived, and the discovery by Jim Dixon of the Daniel Emmit song confirms that the chorus is a lot older than the Ballad of Seth Davy, as Greg Stephens suggested on another thread about the song. Glyn Hughes was a folk singer in Liverpool in the late 50's and 60's who died quite young, and it seems that he wrote this song about 1959 after hearing stories about Seth Davy from older people who remembered seeing him. Glyn Hughes recorded the song for Fritz Spiegl about 1959, and amazingly, some years later, Fritz Spiegl discovered some old lantern slides of Liverpool scenes one of which featured a group of children watching a black man in a bowler hat making some wooden dolls dance on a plank. The scene can definitely be identified as being outside the Bevington House Hotel in Liverpool. All this information comes from the late Fritz Spiegl's Liverpool Street Songs and Broadside Ballads published by the Scouse Press as Liverpool Packet No 1. Seth Davy is also mentioned by Ray Costello in Black Liverpool: The Early History of Britain's Oldest Black Community 1730-1918 as "another black street entertainer...a West African often seen in the Scotland Road area of the city accompanying his cheerful songs with a dancing puppet show." The Black community in Liverpool has made a substantial contribution to the musical and cultural life of the city (and the world) which is only belatedly being acknowledged. Seth Davy, like Billy Waters earlier on in London, was a street entertainer who deserves celebrating. Some other Liverpool black musicians include the jazz musician Gordon Stretton, the 60's soul singers Joe and Eddie Ankrah of the Chants, and the great Cavern singer Derry Wilkie. |
Subject: Lyr. Add: MASSA IS A STINGY MAN (minstrel, 1841) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Aug 08 - 03:09 PM "Massa Is a Stingy Man," composed and sung by R. W. Pelham and pupil Master G. W. Pelham (The Little Ace of Spades). Firth & Hall, NY, 1841. Indiana Univ. Sheet Music Collections. Lyr. Add: MASSA IS A STINGY MAN G. W. Pelham, 1841 Old master is a stingy man and ebry body nowes it, He keeps good brandy in his house and neber sez here goes it. (Dance inserted by the Pelhams) 2 Mr.: Unkel John he came to toun he had a load of Peaches Masr.: The wagon broke down he slipt and mashed dem all to pieces, 3 Mr.: A strayed dog he come to town and had on calaco trouses Masr.: He swore he could not see the town dar was so many houses. 4 Mr.: My sister sal she dremt a dream she dremt she was a jumping Masr.: She tort she eat a musharoon as big as any pumpkin. 5 Mr.: And then she went to climb a tree and two or three to boost her Masr.: And dar she sot a flinging corn on our bob tail rooster. 6 Mr.: Now far you well my sally dear and far you well my honey Masr.: Far you well my dearest love I am going to make some money. The changes in these songs seem capricious, but they were constantly modified to suit different audiences and to avoid repetition at succeeding performances, and when they were 'borrowed' by different troupes. In 1943, Firth and Hall included it in a folio of Ethiopian Quadrilles, with Lucy Long, Old Dan Tucker, De Boatman Dance, and Ginger Blue. (Virginia Minstrels given on the title page). Musical scores only, no lyrics. In the Lester Levy collection. Also in 1843, "Come Day, Go Day" was the title used by Buckley's Minstrels. http://www.circushistory.org/Cork/BurntCork3.htm "Massa Is ..." appears in a MS of 48 tunes collected by Dan Emmett, dating c. 1845-1860. They are discussed in a paper by Hans Nathan, "Early Banjo Tunes and American Syncopation," The Musical Quarterly, vol. 42, no. 4, pp. 455-472 (not seen, first page at jstor.org). |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday From: GUEST,machree01 Date: 24 Aug 08 - 09:21 AM I have Whiskey On A Sunday - Danny Doyle 1968 LP, Danny is great at singing it, a briiliant album 12 songs in all. |
Subject: Lyr Add: COME DAY GO DAY or MASSA IS A STINGY MAN From: Jim Dixon Date: 23 Aug 08 - 06:02 PM Marsh, Richard. Marsh's Selection, or Singing for the Million, Containing the Choicest and Best Collection of Songs Ever Embodied in One Work, New York: Richard Marsh, 1854, page 92: COME DAY, GO DAY. OR MASSA IS A STINGY MAN. Sung with everlasting shouts of applause by the renowned old Dan Emmit. 1. Oh, massa is a stingy man, And all his neighbors knows it, He keeps good whiskey in his house, An neber says, here goes it. CHORUS: Sing come day, go day, God send Sunday, We'll drink whiskey all de week, And buttermilk o' Sunday. 2. A stray dog come to town, 'Pon a bag of peaches, De horse run off an he fell down, And mashed 'em all to pieces. Fala du, fala du da du da la, Fula du fala du lala du la du la. 3. Hoe cotton, dig corn, Den we feed de niggies, An oh, lord Moses, What a luscious time for niggas. 4. Black Jen's got a holler tooth An says it's always aching, But when she puts de hoe cake in, Den it stops a plaguing. 5. Oh, missus says we eat too much. An wear out too much trowses. She'll make us feed on atmosphere. And dress in nature's blowses. 6. She sent consumption Joe one night. Tobacco leaf to kiver, It made him sneeze out de moonlight. An cough away his liver. 7. Oh, massa loves to hug de gals, And missus doesn't knows it. But as I like de angels too, I believe I won't exclose it, 8. Oh, missus says we shouldn't eat, Kase we don't work a Sunday, But natur keeps digestion's mill, A-goin as well as Monday. 9. Massa sich a stingy man, I no more ketch him possum. I roast and eat him in de wood, And den I swear I loss him. 10. Old Jake went out to shoot, And when de gun it go off, It kick his right ear out o' joint. Den fall and smash his toe off. |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Hrothgar Date: 09 Feb 02 - 04:51 AM I know the dolls as "nimblejacks." |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Raggytash Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:27 AM A dancing doll is a wooden manikin pivoted at the shoulders, hips and knees, held by a thin rod about 18 inched long drilled into it's back. It is made to dance by placing it on a 4 x 24 inch thin plank which is then drummed with the fingers causing the doll to "dance" The second verse in the version I know goes "his tired old drummed a wooden beam, and the puppets dolls they danced the gear, a far better show than you ever did see, at the Pavvy on New Brighton Pier. This again would indicate the Liverpool connnection |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Joan from Wigan Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:14 AM Out of curiosity, I've just been looking on the web for Beggars Bush and Bevington Bush. The former is apparently in Dublin, while Bevington Bush was/is in Liverpool: "the name of a thickly wooded valley between Bevington Hill and Everton Hill. An inn on Bevington Hill was called 'The Bush'." The area has not been 'thickly wooded' for many many years, but the area fits. As the version of the song quoted in the DT is that sung by the Irish Rovers, perhaps they changed the location to suited their Irish origins? Joan |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Joan from Wigan Date: 09 Feb 02 - 03:03 AM There are two previous threads: Seth Davy info please and Whisky on a Sunday. The version I know is the same as that quoted by roopoo in the first of the above links, and is the one sung by most if not all of my fellow Liverpudlians. Joan (originally from Liverpool) |
Subject: RE: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Barry Finn Date: 08 Feb 02 - 08:17 PM I think there was quite a nice thread on this some time ago. Good luck, Barry |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) From: Joan from Wigan Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:32 PM WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) He sits in the corner of old Beggar's Bush On top of an old packing crate He has three wooden dolls that can dance and can sing And he croons with a smile on his face CHORUS Come day go day Wish in my heart it were Sunday Drinking buttermilk through the week Whiskey on a Sunday His tired old hands tug away at the strings And the puppets dance up and down A far better show than you ever would see In the fanciest theatre in town And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died In nineteen-oh-four The three wooden dolls in the dustbin were laid His song will be heard nevermore But some stormy night when you're passing that way And the wind's blowing up from the sea You'll still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three I don't know if this is the original version or not - I remember from years ago a singer telling us that Seth Davy actually died in 1902, and I always sing that date in the version I do (which isn't the above, by the way). This version is from a website which gives lots of information about Dancing Dolls. Joan |
Subject: DT Correction: Whiskey on a Sunday (Glyn Hughes) From: MMario Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM Whiskey on a sunday is attributed to Glyn Hughes in the DT WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY or COME DAY, GO DAY (from DT) (Glyn Hughes) Come day, go day Wish in my heart it were Sunday Drinking buttermilk thru the week Whiskey on a Sunday He sits in the corner of Bevvington Bush On top of an old packing case he has three wooden dolls that can dance and can sing And he croons with a smile on his face His tired old hands tug away at the strings And the puppets dance up and down A far better show than you ever would see In the fanciest theatre in town And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died In 1904 The three wooden doll in the dustbin were laid His song will be heard nevermore But some stormy night when you're passing that way And the wind's blowing up from the sea You'll still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three Recorded by Irish Rovers @drink @death filename[ COMEDAY TUNE FILE: COMEDAY CLICK TO PLAY SOF
(Note from Joe Offer, 30 May 2022. It appears that the Digital Tradition lyrics are taken from the Irish Rovers recording, but a few words are different in the recording. Below is my transcription of the recording, but I'm not convinced that the Irish Rovers are a definitive source for the song) Irish Rovers Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI-THvHvZg0 WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (from Irish Rovers) (Glyn Hughes) CHORUS Come day go day Wish in my heart it were Sunday Drinking buttermilk through the week Whiskey on a Sunday He sits on the corner of old Beggar's Bush On top of an old packing crate He has three wooden dolls that can dance and can sing And he croons with a smile on his face His tired old hands tug away at the strings And the puppets they dance up and down A far better show than you ever would see In the fanciest theatre in town And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died In nineteen-hundred-and-four The three wooden dolls in the dustbin were laid His songs will be heard nevermore But some stormy night when you're passing that way And the wind's blowing up from the sea You'll still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three |
Subject: Who Wrote The Ballad of Seth Davy From: Raggytash Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:03 PM I would like to find who wrote the Ballad of Seth Davy and definitive words if possibly
He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush |
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