BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Annie144
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 11:03 PM

"Gormless" is probably northern English. It's not particularly insulting. It means not very clever or not understanding things very quickly...a bit slow.

I noticed "pissed" getting used earlier on in the American sense of "to be annoyed". I find that one confusing. In the UK "pissed" means drunk while "pissed off" has the annoyed connotation.

Moral of the story....it can be quite difficult to know exactly when one is being insulted.

Literary uses of "feck"....Marian Keyes novels?

A.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 10:44 PM

Aw, come on, Michael, it means without gorms! And gorms are, uh, well, those, I mean...you know.

In Robert Paul Smith's classic book, "Where Did You Go?" "Out." "What Did You Do?" "Nothing.", one boy asks another about the source of neat's-foot oil, which is used to condition baseball gloves. The answer: "It comes from the foot of a neat, you dope!" Which, in fact, was precisely correct, since "neat" is an old word for cow. And that's no bull.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 08:27 PM

Bollock is Middle English so it has a long and honorable history behind it; from Old English bealluc. Like the progenitor of feck, it deserves Hall of Fame treatment for long and meritorious service.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: michaelr
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 08:25 PM

I seem to remember someone calling somebody a feckin' eejit in the movie "Waking Ned Devine".

Now what does "gormless" mean?

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 08:11 PM

Hey guest 5:38, I hear ya. I seem to recall a recent flame war over the word "bollocks" somewhere, where a Brit insisted there was no such word.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 08:11 PM

I thouhgt we covered this when we discussed the word Feckless before but still, I seem to remember one of my girlfriend's (At the time, 1972 or so) grandmother who was from Cobh using the word. Good luck other than that I have no imput, Kindest regards, neil

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Clifton53
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:51 PM

I worked a summer job when I was in high school, around 1968, with two gents from Ireland who used "feck" quite a bit, which I understood quite clearly when they would tell me to " do 'yer fecking job Danny boy".

They were decent chaps, but always looking for "birds". (BG).

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:45 PM

So basically it's a "proper" word used as a substitute for an "improper" one because of a similarity in sound. I'll be gosh-darned!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:27 PM

Murray, finding when feck in the sense used here first appeared will not be easy. A coined usage can be around for a long time before it hits print. If someone wishes to go through a ton of Irish novels and stories, good luck to them!

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: GUEST,Maire
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

From the Drumcree threads:

Subject: RE: Campsite at Drumcree IV From: GUEST,Derek Bell Date: 08-Feb-02 - 12:21 PM

Here I didn't say that atall so I didn't. Somebody's codin' round so they are...this is feckin' terrible so it is.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

In the days before "fuck" could be used in print, there were a few euphemisms that seemed to be invented especially for print. I seem to recall "fug," "frick," and "frig," although I can't remember which writers used which ones.

Some novels that I think used euphemisms like this were "Studs Lonigan," "The Death Ship" (by B. Traven, who also wrote "Treasure of the Sierra Madre"), and maybe even "Catch-22."

I recently saw the Coen Brothers' movie "Fargo" on TV and I found that they had dubbed over "fuckin'" with "frozen," as in, "I gotta get outa this frozen town." It's the only time I recall where the censored version was funnier than the original.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: GUEST,Maire
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:08 PM

Feck is an Irish slang euphemism for 'fuck' and is part of eveyday usage in Ireland, where swearing is also commonplace among all classes (though there is a "proper" English spoken without the swearing--the context commonly is English for public consumption, ie the media, in university courses, in religious settings, etc)

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 07:01 PM

Well, I've been educated. I just assumed it was an Irish version of fuck! Very interesting.

I never use it myself, just tend to use the real thing, but I have often used "fock." I have no idea if there is some other meaning to such a word, but I started using it because that's the way I used to "hear" it...phonetically... as a kid growing up in an Italian-American-Community.   "Hey ya' can tell the focker I got his fockin' answer right here!" And actually, that's pretty close to the sound of it coming out of my mouth too.   And of course when my son Michael was 3, he turned to another kid that was bothering him and said, "Hey...Ya' fockin asshole!".........Perfect inflection....a chip off the old block.

So before that one comes up, now you know. Wasn't it a Norman Mailer piece that was cone in WWII that drew commentary because he used another phonetic spelling......fug?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 06:41 PM

I appreciate the research Kat, but I would still like to see a reference to some piece of pre-1970 Irish literature containing the word.

No doubt somebody will oblige ....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 06:36 PM

Feck has quite a number of meanings. One is to steal (see KatL, above), in print by 1809.
Others- "This is the feck of our intent- from 1500. Also efficiency, energy, power, the greater part of something, one of the stomachs of a ruminant. All of these are English, Scottish or obsolete.
I have heard the Irish use it, (Feck it!), say, when you drop a brick on your toe, i. e., Oh Fuck! or Shit! Definitely not American, where Darn is the preferred expletive.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: swirlygirl
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 06:10 PM

feck

\Feck\, n. [Abbrev. fr. effect.] 1. Effect. [Obs.]

2. Efficacy; force; value. [Scot. & Prov. Eng.]

3. Amount; quantity. [Scot. & Prov. Eng.]

He had a feck o' books wi' him. --R. L. Stevenson.

The most feck, or The feck, the greater or larger part. ``The feck o' my life.'' --Burns.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

Now is this the same feck or different and how would we know if we don't really know where the first feck came from?

hm?

:)

xxx

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 06:09 PM

Well, this site makes for some interesting reading on it, by an Irishman: click and scroll down a ways. Here's an excerpt:

The huge popularity in Britain of the sitcom, ahem, TV Comedy Father Ted - surrealist escapades of three Irish Catholic priests exiled to a remote island off the west coast of Ireland - brought several Irishisms into common use over the water, and one in particular *back* into common usage in Ireland: 'feck'.

This word has nothing much to do with 'fuck', but can be used a more - for all intents and purposes - polite version. Mothers let out a 'feck' in front of the kids, I mean children, rather than use an expletive. 'Feck off!' doesn't mean 'fuck off', but rather, 'get lost', or 'get outa here', or put in slightly more polite Irishness, 'get away outa that!'.

Curiously enough, it has other uses, we used to go feckin' apples when I was a child, or at least when I was a younger child. No, we weren't desperate to passionately copulate with the neighbours' Cox's Orange Pippins, but instead we were liberating these fine fruits from their desperate bondage at the hands of a cruel orchard owner. A 'fecker', on the other hand, could be a slightly more slimy eel than a chancer.

A tale shared with me recently involved a bunch of young German tourists, who were out in the back end of nowhere in the Irish countryside, and were confronted by local oul fella, who greeted them with a customary 'howareye?', but was gone before they had time to form any semblance of a reply. They were understandably perplexed, not realising that everyone in this neck of the woods greets each other in the shape and form of 'howareye?' i.e. 'how are you?' or 'howszitgoin?' (how is it going?). These strange questions, especially from someone you've never levelled your eyes on before, are merely a form of 'asking after' one's health, i.e enquiring into their well-being, to which the customary answer is to either ask the same in return, or to reply in the positive, for instance 'oh, I'm grand, thanks'. Whether or not you are scraping at death's door for mercy at the time of interrogation is entirely irrelevant.

So, the next time a person you've met before offers you craic, asks questions without needing answers or simply tells you to 'feck off', relax, have a pint. They're probably just Irish...

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:54 PM

Well, GUEST, I have roomed with Irish students, ( in the 70's ) and I never heard any of them say "feck", which makes me think it is a relative neologism, since they said "fuck" plenty.

So where in the realms of Irish literature might one find the earliest written example of to this quaint and charming euphemism ?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Drumshanty
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:41 PM

I learned it in 1985 from a college friend, who came (very proudly) from Limerick.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:38 PM

They actually say it. I never cease to be amazed at how ignorant the British are of the Irish.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:29 PM

Ah, Clinton has shed light on the matter.

Now my question is, do people in Ireland actually say "fecking" or is it a euphemistic neologism coined by the TV writers?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:25 PM

I learned it from the TV show "Father Ted"

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:22 PM

well, a web search got 1892 hits on 'feckin', most with the usage we see here, so it is neither common, nor rare.

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:16 PM

Oh, gawd, Mark, that was baaaadd!LMAO!

Murray, I hadn't really seen it written until coming to the Mudcat where I saw those of Irish origin use it. Since, I've listened for it on shows we catch on tv and have heard it, again, with characters which are being presented as having something to do with an Irish background.

I use it sometimes because it seems less crude to me, than Pfuck!**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:12 PM

No Sharon, in Britain we don't use such euphemisms ....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:11 PM

I believe it's an Irish variation, Murray. (See the Drumcree threads for details.) What probably confused you is that it was popularized in the U.S. by the great Irish-American actor, Gregory Puck.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: SharonA
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:10 PM

I thought it was a British variation. I've never heard anyone here in the US use "feck". Around here (southeastern PA), popular variants are "friggin' " and "freak" (as in "What the freak is wrong with this friggin' car? It won't freakin' start!").

Subject: The Etymology of 'Feck'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 05:06 PM

I have seen "feck" and "fecking" so often on Mudcat that I must assume that "feck" is a real word, albeit one with which I was hitherto unfamiliar.

Would I be correct in assuming that it is some sort of American variation on the good old Anglo-Saxon word, and that when a mamber tells a guest to "feck off", what is really being intended is "fuck off ?

Or does the word mean something else altogether?

Murray