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BS: MATH PROBLEM
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:19 AM You're right, Jon, even though I said "vortex"! I did the ole differentiation thing too even though Nathan's formula was for the value of x. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:38 AM Y'all are pushing this ex-math-teacher's buttons! One (thought not the main) reason I left math teaching was because of the abysmal status of the math curriculum and it's relative importance in our public school system. Just yesterday I heard an opinion that in the next 20 years we will have a shortage of engineers. When I was teaching high school we would have exchange students from Finland, Swedan and Germany that covered our 12th grade curriculum in 8th grade! A lot of the prejudice towards math comes from the adults in our community and even the media. When I was struggling to teach straightforward percent problems to some students, Barbara Walters made the statement on national TV that she never could get "those" problems either! Lyle, I'd be curious to know where these fifth graders are. Here in KY percent problems are not a part of the curriculum until sixth grade. And to have 23 out of 24...sounds like a good class. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST,D_Hayes Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:33 AM Sorry guys........you are all wrong..... you must divide by .935 to get the correct NETT amount. 100 / .935 = 106.9518 Now th NC tax of 6.5% of 106.9518 is 6.9518 and the price to the seller is 100. Donal |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Gary T Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:08 PM Gee, Donal, that would be great if the PRETAX price were 100. Now, what does your post have to do with the problem at hand? |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mrrzy Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:30 PM I am reminded of another puzzle: There are three doors numbered 1, 2 & 3. Behind ONE door is something you prize; behind each of the other 2 doors is a donkey. Assume you don't want to win a donkey for this one. You pick one door. The MC then unveils one of the OTHER doors to reveal a donkey, and asks you if you're sure. The question is, Are you better of sticking with your original guess or switching to the other unknown door? This is NOT the one about the gates to hell and the twin guardians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: CamiSu Date: 26 Feb 02 - 01:46 PM Our first GUEST made the classic mistake of percentages in that the percentage changes as to whether you are going up or down. ie a 50% markup means you have a 33% gross profit. Sorry, Nate, you made that mistake in your first post, as well, so I won't be sending you any takers on math homework. BUT, McGrath and GUEST Nigel mentioned something I have always been curious about. Just how did shillings, farthings etc work? How many x in y? I have always wanted to know... And, Mrrzy, I think you're better off to stick with your old choice which had a 2/3 chance of correctness, rather than changing to the new choice which only has a 1/2 chance, or has your first choice changed to a 1/3 chance now that there is an ass revealed? I woke up with a ringing headache this morning and had to sing the song I wrote to Alex'(the Mousethief) words, at the local HS. I managed that (best I've ever done) but my head still isn'quite up to probabilities. But I have to do the tax stuff all the time... CamiSu |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 26 Feb 02 - 01:49 PM Mrrzy, we discussed this problem here. Good one. (Don't anybody look at the answer until you've guessed.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Fortunato Date: 26 Feb 02 - 01:57 PM It's very simple, Jim. Did you get any money when you sold your products? If you did, then send it to the government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mathematical Probability Query From: CamiSu Date: 26 Feb 02 - 04:01 PM Ah, Mary. Thank you. However, Marion's statement was the opposite question. In this case there are two asses and Mrrzy says that is what we want, so I guess using the same logic, we do not want to switch. Cool, I got something right! |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:18 PM The original math question was answered correctly, by MudGuard, in the first reply. Additional information, which wasn't requested but which is needed to "meet the need," has been supplied by a couple of citations where the actual tax tables can be found. (Politicians don't always do "real" math, so you've got to get their forms.) As to Mrzzy's little asses. In the first case, you have three doors which we assume are equally likely to have your preferred "prize." Odds are one in three, regardless of which door you choose - so it really doesn't matter which one you pick. When the other door is opened to reveal an ass, you have a new problem. You now have two remaining doors, each of which is presumed to have equal likelyhood of having your "prize." Odds are NOW 1 out of 2 that you will pick the right one - so it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether you keep the same door or pick the other one. The only ODDS that matter are the ones that apply when you put your money down. That's why the good poker player pays as much attention to what his opponents show as to his own hand. The clinker in Mrzzys little asses is that this situation only appears on quiz shows, where the guy behind the scenes will put what they WANT you to get behind whichever door you pick - which depends entirely on whether they've decided they need a winner or a loser to boost ratings. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Gary T Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:36 PM To Mrrzy's problem: One third of the time you have originally picked the desired prize. If you switch, you lose. One third of the time you have originally picked Ass A. The MC, who knows what's behind each door, will show you the other ass. If you switch to the other door, you win. One third of the time you have originally picked Ass B. Again, if you switch, you win. Two thirds of the time you will improve your choice if you switch after being shown one of the asses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:39 PM Gary Faulty odds. Wanna play poker? John |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:55 PM CamiSu, I think Mrrzy's problem is like the one I linked to, you DO NOT want to open the door with an ass behind it.
prize empty cup empty cup In the other thread it helped me to understand the "history" of the events. Also, and I assume Mrrzy's problem is the same, the "house" or MC has prior knowledge of where the prize is, and the "house" or MC will always select (from the remaining two) one which does not contain the prize. There is more here than meets the eye on first glance. (It helps to have several explanations.) Any doubters can just do trial and error 1000 times to be convinced of the answer! But make sure you understand the rules. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: harpgirl Date: 26 Feb 02 - 08:20 PM hi mary that thing about the holla if you here me is from one of my favorite wrestlers named big poppa pump scott steiner also you were right on those answers so if you don't mind i have three more problems for you to solve they are 1.Find the molar mass of this: c(6)h(8) na(12) 2.What is the point slope intercept equation if your slope 2/3 and your point is (1,3)? 3. What are the six trig funtcions if sin=3/5? from your pal nathan dollar peace |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 26 Feb 02 - 08:30 PM LOL...am I doing your homework for you, Nathan?!!!!!!! These are easy...but I have to go now. If you really need the answers (or have a question...don't I sound like a teacher now) I'll check back in the morning. (I'd have to double check my definitions of the trig functions, but if they are right it takes about 5 seconds to plug and chug...hint, use the words opposite and adjacent in your definitions) |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: harpgirl Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:11 PM you're not doing my homework i already finished the course. the answers are 1.the molar mass is 304 2. the point slope intercept is y-3=2/3(x-1) =y-3=2/3x-2/3=y=2/3x+ 7/3
3.the six trig functions are sin 3/5 |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Pene Azul Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:27 PM If sin(t)=3/5, t could be in quadrant I or Quadrant II. If t is in Quadrant I, the answers above apply. If t is in Quadrant II: sin(t)= 3/5 csc(t)= 5/3 cos(t)= -4/5 sec(t)= -5/4 tan(t)= -3/4 cot(t)= -4/3 Jeff |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Big John Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:36 PM If a straight line is bisected and produced to any point the rectangle contained by the whole line thus produced and the part produced together with the square between the points of section is equal to the square made up of the half and the part produced. I learned that by heart over 40 years ago and in all that time I have never found any practical use for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Gary T Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:25 PM Gotta disagree, John. Sure, if you look only at the fact that one of the two unopened doors has a prize and the other one has an ass, the odds are 50/50. But there's more to it than that. The MC is not randomly selecting either of the unchosen doors to reveal. If your first pick was an ass, the MC is ALWAYS going to reveal the other ass, never the prize. Statistically speaking, over a number of games, you are better off switching. Two times out of three you will have intially chosen an ass, and thus two times out of three switching will improve your lot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:57 PM I repeat Gary T: Wanna play some poker. ps. I don't gamble. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mark Cohen Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:02 PM You know, we haven't had much nitpicking in this thread recently, so: Trevor, 1.25 - 1/5 is not 1.00, because 1/5 is 0.2, not 0.25. Not that it matters, of course...especially to the donkey. (And Gary, why would you EVER want to be on that show more than once?) Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Blackcatter Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:44 PM Thank you all for a very intertaining 10 minutes of reading. I know little of math (B.A. in Philosophy, M.A. in Religion, M.A. in Folklore), but I love discussions like this. What I especially love is that people kept suggesting the wrong solution even though it was proven wrong in prior posts. By the way - I love poker and would love to see Mudcat have a poker tourney some day. And by the way - I don't gamble either. pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: GUEST,Nigel Parsons Date: 27 Feb 02 - 05:15 AM Mark Cohen, Trevor's maths was right, his phraseology may need correction though. He was giving a simplified way of showing the percentages. What he meant was not 1.25- 1/5 =1, BUT 1.25 minus 1/5th of 1.25 (i.e. .25) =1 |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: CamiSu Date: 27 Feb 02 - 09:07 AM Mary, thank you. I did misread Mrrzy's post and thought he said I wanted a donkey. Maybe it's because I have a farm and wouldn't necessarily consider getting one a bad thing... However I still want to know if anyone can tell me how the old British money system worked...how many shillings in a farthing or vice versa? |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mrrzy Date: 27 Feb 02 - 09:10 AM JohninKansas, review the concept of conditional probability. Poker or no, it IS better odds to switch, GIVEN THAT you now know where at least one of the asses is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Gary T Date: 27 Feb 02 - 09:37 AM Can't remember if it has been phrased this way, but here goes: If the question were, what are the odds of the prize being in either one of the unopened doors, if you did not know which door was originally chosen, the correct answer is indeed 1 in 2. This of course is not the question, and the rules and dynamics of the game materially affect which door is opened in relation to which door was intially chosen. With the question being are you better off switching under the circumstances described, the answer is yes as the odds are 2 in 3. Another way to put it is what are the odds of the prize being in the CHOSEN door, the answer to that being 1 in 3--just as it was in the beginning when the initial choice was made.
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Subject: English Coins From: Snuffy Date: 27 Feb 02 - 09:38 AM CamiSu
A farthing was a quarter of a penny. So: The coins were farthing, halfpenny, penny, threepeny bit, sixpence, shilling, two shilling (or florin) and half-crown. Half-a-crown was 2/6d (30 pence, one-eighth of a pound), and the smallest note was 10/- (ten shillings, £0.50). So there were 240 pennies or 960 farthings in a pound. Then in 1971 it went decimal, and there were 100 new pence in a pound, instead of 240 old ones. I still frequently call 5p coins shillings. WassaiL! V |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Wolfgang Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:05 AM Mrrzy's problem is the Monty Hall dilemma. Many discussions about that in the Mathematical probability query thread. Monty's response when asked about 'his' puzzle: "What if I only give them the choice to switch if I see they are going to win otherwise?" Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 27 Feb 02 - 10:20 AM JohnInKansas, I'd like to play poker with you! Actually, I'm going to visit my 83-year-old uncle who plays poker everyday and I need some tips. I'm not a good bluffer...at least not when my husband is in the game...never figured out how he can read me so well. Pene, I'm proud of you...spoken like a true Mudcatter...don't miss a thing. And pardon the further thread creep, but I just heard a joke yesterday. Little Johnny was doing his math homework when his mom overheard him. "Two plus two...sonofabitch...four" "Three plus three...sonofabitch...six" Mom said, "Where did you EVER learn to talk like that?" Johnny replied, "Why, teacher, of course." So Mom had a talk with teacher... Seems she was saying, "Two plus two...the sum of which is four. Three plus three...the sum of which is six." (I'll go away now, Mary) |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Trevor Date: 28 Feb 02 - 08:43 AM Mark Cohen: I could have sworn that one-fifth of 1.25 was 0.25! |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: CamiSu Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:32 AM Snuffy-- Big thanks! I got to Cyprus in summer of '71, so I missed the confusion, and Baba (my Turkish Dad) just hinted at the difference. So in my collection I have some old coins, but only the ones that translated. No farthings or shillings. Now with the Euros I probably won't be able to collect the coins from countries I don't already have... Oh well Thread creep. Does anyone from Canada know how many new quarter desighns you have? and dimes? most people in Quebec had no idea what I was talking about when I asked. Tried to give me change. I have GOT to improve my French! CamiSu |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mrrzy Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:01 PM Is Canada doing the quarter thing too? How many is the US up to now, is it 25/50? |
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Subject: English Coins From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Mar 02 - 06:46 AM CamiSu (sounds like an item of underwear!) Skiing in Canada 3 yrs ago I was assured that quarters were available for all 12 territories (o.k. 10 provinces,2 territories) I managed to pick up most by carefully checking my change for a week. Snuffy has correctly answered your query about Pounds Shillings and Pence, but as you appear to be interested numismatically, a little more detail can be added. Additional coins in the range were available during the history of the coinage. I think I've covered all the "English" circulation coins, but if not someone will surely correct me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Jon Freeman Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:12 AM How about the sovereign (£1) and half-sovereign? Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: MATH PROBLEM From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:03 AM The Queen and Prince Harry? |
