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BS: words, words,words-an education!
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Subject: words, words,words-an education! From: Bill D Date: 13 Mar 02 - 12:30 PM I really did get an education this morning! I had recently seen a word used in a couple of newsgroups that I was unfamiliar with, and presumed it was someone's error, but...clever fellow that I am, I looked it up first! People were calling other people "whingers", and I awoke today with that on my mind, so I did this search (that is in newsgroups,not the WWW). WOW!....seems that since at least 1993 folks have been asking "what the heck is 'whinging' and how do you pronounce it?" I had NEVER heard it till about 2 weeks ago. An hour of reading the search results makes me more aware than ever of the great varieties of language and local colloquialisms. I also read learned discussions on 'aspirated' words
wear-where and words like pin-pen, and git-get (one fellow said.." In Memphis, where I grew up, it is quite easy to distinguish between "pin" and "pen." You get stuck with a peeyun, you write with an ink-peeyun.") ain't this larnin' process innerestin'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Bill D Date: 13 Mar 02 - 12:49 PM oh, yeah...and 'weather-whether' |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Sorcha Date: 13 Mar 02 - 12:50 PM En-ve-lope/en-velope. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Cappuccino Date: 13 Mar 02 - 12:57 PM The Australians call us Brits 'whingeing poms'. - Ian B |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: MMario Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:09 PM Bill - I've seen it used here - try a supersearch on "whing*"
I have problems though with "homonyms" such as: |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Bill D Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:24 PM It seems 'whingeing' has a long history in English, but the Aussies seem to have made it a MAJOR term with the 'whingeing poms' bit (which I gather mostly refers just to English immigrants to OZ who don't adjust well) |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Ebbie Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:57 PM In some linguistic courses I've taken the point is made that it's mostly the east coast that does not aspirate its 'wh-'. In Oregon where I have spent most of my life, to pronounce 'whale' as 'wail', jars a bit. In Alaska, where practically everyone I know is from somewhere else, the incidence seems fairly evenly divided. One of my dictionaries says, about 'whinge': British Informal Northern English dialect, from hwinsian, akin to German winseln. I love words- they make music! Eb |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: SharonA Date: 13 Mar 02 - 02:27 PM So tell us, please, how is "whinging" pronounced? "wing-ing" or "winj-ing"? Sorcha: don't forget "ahn-ve-lope"! |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: gnomad Date: 13 Mar 02 - 02:43 PM Sharon A...Winjing round here (and both word and activity are very common) nice to see a local word going international. Persistant, groundless, and above all irritating complaing about sums it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Mar 02 - 03:05 PM Shar', just wing it. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Don Firth Date: 13 Mar 02 - 03:36 PM I once knew a woman from Texas. Deep in the heart of Texas! "Texas ack-say-unt? Ah don' have no ack-say-unt!" The one that blew me away was when she mentioned that her family was doing okay, because they had "three ole way-ulls" in their back yard. Took me awhile to figure out that they had three oil wells in their back yard. She thought I talked funny too. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Murray MacLeod Date: 13 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM Might I point out that in Australia it is not only Poms who get accused of being whingers. Australian women are frequently labelled with the epithet by their menfolk as well. This "whingeing" no doubt has its roots in the fact that the average Australian male's idea of foreplay is to knock back his Fosters and shout "Brace Yourself !" Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Hollowfox Date: 13 Mar 02 - 06:53 PM A lot of us Yanks got introduced to "whinging" thanks to the Harry Potter books, where the hero spent his childhood in the town of Little Whinging. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: JennieG Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:25 PM Murray, Australian women are usually called "whingeing Sheilas" by their blokes - my blokes (Himself & 2 sons) know better than to even think about calling me one as the consequences would be most unpleasant - *grin* - for them Cheers JennieG |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: khandu Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:46 PM I love words! And I love accents. Here in Mississippi (or "Mizsippi"), I enjoy listening to the various ways we speak. Today, I heard a mother ask her son to put the trash out. "Artydid" was his response. ("I already did") Just listening...quite a pleasure in it. Yes, there is music in conversation. khandu |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Mar 02 - 10:59 PM A British "whinger" seems to be the same as an American "whiner." |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: dick greenhaus Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:17 PM Help please! If Pom (or Pommie) is an abbreviation for Prisoner of Mother England as I've been told, how does it get applied to the English? I know about WOGs |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: katlaughing Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:31 PM LOL, wonderful thread, BillDee! First time I ever saw whinger was here at the Mudcat, from UK folks. I figured then it was the equivalent of the American "whiner" as noted above. Now, I've started using it, like the sound of it. It seems to have more oompf to it than whiner!**BG** I have a fun time when I speak with someone from the South. A lot of word things were brought from there to Colorado where my ancestors settled. We still mostly say "crick" instead of "creek" for a "brook," which is what I found they were called in New England, and not to be confused with a "creak" of a squeaky door. My sisters are identical twins and have always had a funny way of saying some words; they had their own language when they were babies. Instead of penny, they still call a one cent piece a "pin-nee." We have no idea where that one came from! Another funny thing about New England, we found no one calls them rubber bands; when they tie back their hair, they use an "elastic." |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Mar 02 - 11:52 PM What's all the whindling abaht? Whinge has been in the books since the 12th century. Lost to Americans but now coming back. Whindle, whine and whinge- take your pick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Nigel Parsons Date: 14 Mar 02 - 05:03 AM "Collins" gives the origin of "Pommies" as "based on a blend of immegrant & Pomegranate (alluding to the red cheeks of immegrants). It also gives the "Prisoners acronym as a secondary derivation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Watson Date: 14 Mar 02 - 05:34 AM Dick, Prisoner of Mother England as an origin of the word Pommie is unlikely in the extreme. I would be dubious about any etymology that says a word entered the English language as an acronym. It doesn't seem to have happened until the mid 20th century when things like Radar and Laser came along - and of course there's SNAFU, FUBAR and others of that ilk. Back to pommie - nobody knows for sure, but for a more reasonable explanation, see what Michael Quinion has to say at World Wide Words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Hrothgar Date: 14 Mar 02 - 05:58 AM How do you tell the difference between a Pom and a jet aircraft? Jet aircraft stop whining after they land! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: gnu Date: 14 Mar 02 - 06:16 AM Oh! You mean ween. I recall the first time I said "lake" in Newfoundland. I got puppy eyes from all 'ands. Upon explanation, I was educated to the fact that the body of water I referred to is a "pond" and that a lake is "a 'ole in yer boot, bye." |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Pied Piper Date: 14 Mar 02 - 07:42 AM Here's another Northern English expresions to amuse and confound. "Y gert big sporny eyed wazock" |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: KingBrilliant Date: 14 Mar 02 - 07:47 AM I love local accents. There is still a local accent associated with Reading UK (my town) - which is strongest in the rougher areas such as Whitley. There is a joke that only makes sense to Reading people, and just in case there are any reading this.... Bloke turns to another bloke and says "See that cat? That cat comes from Whitley" Other bloke says "How do you know?" Bloke replies "'Cos it just said 'mee-ae'" The point being that the true Whitley-ite would pronounce "how now brown cow" as "hae nae braen cae". Its the only truly local joke I've ever heard. Any other local jokes around?? Kris |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 14 Mar 02 - 08:40 AM Huw and Tony Williams used to tell a tale to explain their frequent (faked) misunderstandings as follows Huw: Tony doesn't understand my accent see? Tony: Yeah thats right 'cos Huw comes from North Brynteg Huw: And Tony is from ...South Brynteg..... To appreciate this you have to know that Brynteg is a tiny village with about six streets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Bill D Date: 14 Mar 02 - 11:13 AM In following the thread in newsgroups, I found that the purists differentiate between 'whining' and 'whinging'....here is one analysis Whining comes from the verb to whine DEF:1. to utter a prolonged high plaintive cry, as in pain, complaint, or fear. DEF:2. to complain or protest in a peevish, irritating manner. DEF:3 To complain or protest in a childish fashion. Whinging comes from the verb to whinge Def: To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner. [Dialectal alteration of Middle English whinsen] In my (British) experience the first is in common English use, the second is also in common use but has a more negative connotation because of its use (insultingly) by (stereotype-macho) australians to refer to complaining (stereotype-complaining-but-take-no-action) British immigrants/visitors. As used in the term 'whinging poms'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Willa Date: 14 Mar 02 - 03:24 PM Whingers are people who are for ever chuntering about something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: fat B****rd Date: 14 Mar 02 - 03:41 PM Damn straight, Willa, here in the North whingers are always twistun' on about something or other. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: mack/misophist Date: 15 Mar 02 - 08:46 AM What's the problem? A whinger is obviously some yenta who's always making a tsouris. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Bert Date: 15 Mar 02 - 11:09 PM LOL Kris, I lived near Marlow as a kid and remember Dad mildly taking the piss out of the locals by saying "Hay nay brain cay" He said he was surprised when he got back to London and it was all "Aintcha, carntcha and woantcha" |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: RoyH (Burl) Date: 16 Mar 02 - 07:13 AM In America I heard the word 'kvetch' applied to someone I would have called a whinger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: GUEST Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:59 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Hrothgar Date: 17 Mar 02 - 04:05 AM The classic whingeing Pom: THE POMMY'S LAMENT
Hurrah for good old England,
We lived on tea and damper,
THE BUSHMAN'S ANSWER
You whingeing mob of bastards,
You thought you'd pick up sovereigns Ron Edwards, "The Overlander Songbook;" Second Edition, The Ram's Skull Press, 1969. Collected from Tiger O'Shane, Holloway's Beach, 1965 |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 02 - 05:36 AM ask-ax |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:28 AM Sorcha said: "En-ve-lope/en-vel-ope." I have to take exception. The second of those does NOT end with an E. It's "en-vel-op. There is no "envelope" with accent on the second syllable. Dave (compulsive pedant) Oesterreich
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: DMcG Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:39 AM Joke relying on 'Geordie' accent and so incomprehensible to almost every reading this thread!
Southern England Doctor: Your leg is healing nicely. Soon you'll to able to walk again |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: artbrooks Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:42 AM EN-vel-ope/ON-vel-ope, Dave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 Apr 02 - 10:55 AM Of course no argument there, Art. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Willa Date: 06 Apr 02 - 01:52 PM I thought this might appeal to you. (From "The Times" letter page.) The wind was rough and cold and blough She kept her hands inside her mough. It chilled her through, her nose turned blough, And still the squall the faster flough. And yet although there was no snough The weather was a cruel fough. It made her cough. (Please do not scough). She coughed until her hat blew ough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Sorcha Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:03 PM Dave, "envelop" is the way my grandmother prounounced "envelope"......she said "alumium" too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Dicho (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:33 PM Envelop has just lost the terminal "e" over time. See OED. The terminal "e" was still common in the latter 19th C., thus it was still used by older people in the early 20th C. The OED's comment on ON-velope is pertinent. "...still very frequently heard although there is no good reason for giving a foreign sound to a word which no one regards as alien and which has been anglicized in spelling for nearly 200 years." |
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Subject: RE: BS: words, words,words-an education! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 06 Apr 02 - 02:56 PM Some Kentuckyisms Chimley (on top of your house) Concreke (like see-ment. With this and some brick you can build you a chimley) Ideals (when the lightbulb turns on over your head, you have an ideal) Fillings (emotions. I have certain fillings for her I cain't deny)
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