Origin: Miss Lucy Had a Steamboat

Subject: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From:
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 11:01 PM

Help, please -- I'm playing name that tune, and I've got all kinds of lyrics: "Miss Lucy had a steamboat/ the steamboat had a bell..." It's used for lots of children's parodies, it's been used for the "dog song" in Waiting for Godot, it's been used for the "spaghetti song" in "Arthur's Good Manners" -- is there an original, authored tune behind it? I'm trying to help a student who's collecting children's playground lore. Thanks!

Adam Davis Truman State University [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 11:14 PM

This site says that Liz Phar re-wrote Steppenwolf lyrics and got Miss Lucy. Several other sites say the same thing. I have my doubts about that.

Another Kid Site says it is a "traditional clapping song" but that is not much help. Guess we'll have to wait on Malcolm Douglas........YO, Malcolm!!

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 11:47 PM

I actually started a thread on children's street games a few weeks ago, here: Lyr Add: Miss Mary Mack and Miss L. Several people posted their own reminisces of these songs and others, and included several links.

Personally, I'm with Sorcha -- I have serious doubts that Liz Phar or any one person wrote this song, especially for money. I learned it in the early '70's from other 7 year-olds while riding to school on the bus - with much smirking and snickering at the lyrics. I doubt that that was a crowd that would be picking up the song from a record they bought.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 02:01 AM

Is this the same tune as that used for "Harry Pollitt" (Harry was a Bolshie/One of Lenin's lads/Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads/By reactionary cads, by reactionary cads/Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads")?

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM

the melody is very close to 'The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down' which is used as the them to Warner Brothers Cartoons, Merry Melodies. I'm sure that has an author, but can't remember who. My guess is some kid(s) borrowed it for the jump rope, clapping, whatever playground stuff. OR the 'Merry-GO-Round Broke down' guy used an old schoolyard rhyme for his composition. I think there is an earlier Merry-Go ROund song that the 'Broke Down' one was written in comic response to, (Bad Grammar, sorry) but can't recall. ANy thoughts?

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 05:04 PM

I remember this Poem from the 50's but I don't remember a singing it. I think we used it for jump rope.

Molly had a steamboat, the steamboat had a bell, Molly went to heaven, the steamboat went to

Hello operator give me number nine, if you disconnect me I'll kick you in the

Behind the refrigerator there's a piece of glass, if you fall upon it, you'll cut your little

Ask me no more questions, I'll tell you no more lies. This is just the story where Molly's steamboat dies.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Giac
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 06:14 PM

Here are some links to other discussions of Miss Lucy/Mary/Molly and her steamboat:

Click Here

Clicky

Blicky

Lots of other similar stuff in those threads, too.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: CapriUni
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 07:11 PM

Thanks for the links, Giac!

Seems to me these songs go back way before Stepenwolf (I guess, unless he wrote in the first third of the 20th century).

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From:
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 11:10 PM

here is the Longview Washington version

Mary had a steamboat the steamboat had a bell
Mary went to heaven the steamboat went to hell
o operator give me number 9
If there is no answer give me back my dime

and there was another one I heard once in my life in 8th grade from Paula Perry and instantly committed to memory

Two Irishmen two Irishmen two Irishmen in a ditch
One of them called the other one you dirty son of a Peter Murphy had a dog a very fine dog was he he gave it to a lady to keep her company

She fed it she fed it she taught it how to jump it jumpted right up her petticoat and bit her on the ask me no questions I'll tell you no lies this is what Lulu said just before she died...

then go into Mary had a steamboat..

mg

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From:
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 11:30 PM

Wow -- this is great! And you've all been helpful. What I'm beginning to think is that this is a genuine folk tune, never learned from a score, never so much as written down or named. And I'm sensing something weird about its history: the oldest reference I've found is someone who says the "Miss (whatever) Had a Steamboat" rhyme is to the tune of "I have a little pussy." Following up on that, I located an old, anonymous traditional riddle for children: "I have a little pussy/ Its coat is soft and grey/ It lives out in the meadow/But never runs away/ She'll always be a pussy/she'll never be a cat/For she's a pussy willow/Now what d'ye think of that?" Well, for obvious reasons people were inspired to obscene parodies, and it looks to me like, from that time on, the tune was used for parodies (most at least flirting with smut). *Interesting* how a tune can develop a meaning, even if it has no words! I want to pursue the Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" lead, too. I'm pretty unmusical; my specialty is verbal folklore, but this is just as cool as a blue moose!

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: CapriUni
Date: 28 Mar 02 - 11:46 PM

adavis:

You're right! It is as cool as a blue moose (I love children's folklore -- it's still primarily an oral tradition)!

So what was the date of that pussy willow riddle?

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From:
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 12:13 AM

Good question -- I haven't had any luck. The slang meaning that gets the obscenities flowing turns out to be pretty old (1600s -- I checked with a historical dictionary). So it looks like innocent and offensive versions must have been around at the same time. What my student is finding is that children really do have a lore and a culture entirely separate from adults, stuff that they teach to each other, that has meaning and consistency, and is often the kind of thing adults would put a stop to if they knew about it. I wonder how it is we forget what we *really* thought and talked about when we were kids? It *is* living oral tradition. The stuff spreads across the country by kid-telegraph at amazing speed. Nobody yet has figured out how the six notes of "nanny nanny boo boo" spread around the world the way they did (and what *are* the notes? Like I said, I'm musical as a brick).

Adam

BTW, feeding that title into your browser pulls up some really putrid stuff.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Giac
Date: 29 Mar 02 - 03:59 PM

Adam --

You may have found this site, but it (Slavic Pagan Holidays) has three lines of an old song about pussy willow (apparently quite old), and has several mentions of willows, pussy and otherwise.

pagan holiday observances

Entertaining at least ...

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From:
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:45 AM

We sang the "Harry Pollit" version at Cambridge in the 50"s.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 06:57 AM

At a guess, the 'six notes to "nanny nanny boo boo"' will probably echo those of 'Little Bunny Frou Frou'. Childrens songs being so derivative.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 07:05 AM

The version I learned in the late '50s-early '60s (on the playgrounds of West Allis, WI) was NOT to the tune "The Merry-Go-Round Broke Down" and was a truncated/loop version of some of the lyrics above:

"Helen had a steamboat, it had a little bell.
Helen went to heaven, the steamboat went to
Helen had a steamboat, etc."

Linn

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: CapriUni
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 04:51 PM

Linn, now you've got me curious: What was the tune to "Helen had a steamboat"?

In any case, your version seems to be related to other "Circular" kids songs, like The Bear Went over the Mountain.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: Gareth
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 07:08 PM

"Harry Pollit" was around in leftwing cicles in London in the late 70's I It was one of my "Party Pieces"

"10 long years have passed,
John Gollan's there as well,
And all the little Devils,
Have joined the YCL*"

* Young Comunist League

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 01:25 PM

Another version, as sung by sailors is "Bang Bang, Lulu." The melody is the same.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: GUEST,Mike
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:09 AM

Two Irishmen, two Irishmen, were sittin in a ditch
one called the other a dirty son of a Peter Murphy had a dog
a mighty fine dog was he, he lent it to his girl firend to keep her
company.

She taught it, she taught it, she taught it how to jump.
It jumped up her petticoat and bit her in the cocktail, giner ale,
five cents a glass, take it or leave it, or shove it up your ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies,

If you ever get hit with a bucket of shit, be sure to close your eyes.

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 03:07 PM

heh, heh, Mike... from where does this version come?

Subject: RE: Miss Lucy had a steamboat
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 04:04 PM

Salvation Army free from sin
Went to heaven in a corned beef tin
The corned beef tin began to smell
So the Salvation army went to...
Helensburgh castle stands upon a rock
If you want to pass it you've got to show your...
Cocktail Ginger ale, half a pint of water,
Stick it up your.....
Ask no questions tell no lies
Shut your mouth and you'll catch no flies.

Learned this in school more than 40 years ago, funny how some things stick!!
Giok

Subject: RE: Origin: Miss Lucy Had a Steamboat
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 08 Jun 23 - 08:02 PM

DICKEY AND MURPHEY
(Ben Edwards [informant])

Dickey and Murphey were playing in the ditch,
When Dickey called Murphey a dirty son-of-a-b----
Bring all your children, and let them play with sticks
Or when they grow oder, they'll play with their -----.
Dickey and Murphey had a little doggie;
They let her to a lady to keep her company;
She led him and fed him, until one day on a hunt
He played all around her petticoats and -----.
Country lass a-sitting on the grass,
A fence post fell over and ran a sliver up her ---
Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies;
And if I finish this, I hope I die
And go to h---
Hello, Central, How's your brownie hair?
And if you have no whiskey, I'll have to drink your beer.

From Songs and Ballads: Folk Material and Old Favorites, Collected by [James] Kenneth Larson in McCammon, Idaho. Undated [c1933], typescript. Tune not indicated. Dash expurgation in the original... so I'm not sure if it is a "teasing" song or used the "bad" words.


See online here:

https://archive.org/details/1933-1972jameskennethlarson/page/n37/mode/1up