Origins: In Chinaland there lived a great man

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:23 AM

Charley

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that "until". In fact, someone from the North of Ireland (such as Jim McFarland, form Derry) would be quite likely to use "until" in that sense....

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: JOSH, JOHN
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 02:05 PM

JOSH, JOHN

You have strayed away from your josh, John,
You have strayed away from your josh;
And between the spot where you stand
And your home in the flowery land,
The waves of an ocean dash, John,
The waves of an ocean dash.

Your "tail" is severed clean off, John,
Your pigtail is cut clean off;
I should like to see you, John, set down,
Right in the middle of your native town-
Yah! Wouldn't the Johnnies scoff, John,
"How can!" they would cry in scoff.

The hair now covers your head, John,
The hair now covers your head;
You have lost your nankin shirt of blue,
And a sorry coat of doubtful hue
Is seedily worn in its stead, John,
Is seedily worn in its stead.

A boot of at least thirteen, John,
A boot of at least thirteen,
And made of cowhide, strong and good,
In the place of a sole of solid wood,
On your elegant foot is seen, John,
On your elegant foot is seen.

You have come, as it were, alone, John,
You have come, as it were, alone;
And you lead an unhappy kind of life,
Coming without a cheerful wife,
A cheerful wife of your own, John,
An almond-eyed wife of your own.

You've left your national god, John,
You've left your god and your land;
You've left the dress of the land of flowers,
And in leaving these, haven't taken ours;
And you've friends upon neither hand, John,
You have friends upon neither hand.

Buffeted, beaten, and cursed, John,
Buffeted, beaten and cursed,
I think your life had happier been
As the slave of a nine-tailed Mandarin -
This last state is worse than the first, John,
This last state is by far the worst!

@immigrant @discrimination @Chinese

Text above appeared in Johnson, J. E., 1863, p. 18-19, Johnson's New Comic Songs No. 2, San Francisco, Appleton & Co. An earlier variant appeared in Stone, 1855, p. 62, Put's Original California Songster, 1st ed., San Francisco, Appleton & Co. Reprinted in Lingenfelter and Dwyer, 1968, Songs of the American West, p. 300. No music is given.
One of the few songs of the time that shows some sympathy (albeit grudgingly) for the Chinese immigrant. Worse times were to come with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 01:17 PM

It should also be noted that "John Chinaman, My Jo" in Connor's "Irish Song Book" was published in San Francisco by Appleton & Co.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM

Joe, "John Chinaman" first appeared in The California Songster, 1855, p. 44, San Francisco, Appleton & Co., David E. Appleton. There are variants. (From Songs of the American West, Lingenfelter and Dwyer, 1968, p. 299)

See thread 12708 for "Long John, Chineeman," posted by rich r. John
The chorus of this song, for comparison:
Ching ching chow, chingeeringee roo,
Chingee roo was a Chineeman
He was a barber by birth and a butcher by trade
I tell you he was oil from the can.

In a number of the old songs, the Chinaman is named John. It would be interesting to know when or how this started.

"John Chinaman, My Jo," lyrics in the DT should be credited to both J. W. Connor and J. Watson, not just to Connor. The tune is "My Jo," by John Anderson, published (2nd time?) in "The Songs of Scotland," 1887, C. Mackay, J. Pittman and C. Brown, London, p. 72. Data from Lingenfelter and Dwyer, 1968, p. 301.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Yorkie
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:17 AM

Joe - thanks for those other songs. They certainly do show the prevalence of racist attitudes. Martin - thanks again. Can I contact Jim McFarlane? (Coincidence time - I discovered, yesterday, that a friend I have know for many years has the middle name of McFarlane. He's never told any of his friends before but got married and, of course, the registrar read out the full name)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jun 02 - 02:25 PM

Joe- looks like someone did a typo in the 3rd line of your first Chinaman song which reads "That happened until 'Gee Sing...'" It would make better sense as:

That happened ONTO "Gee Sing,"

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Jun 02 - 09:55 AM

Jim tells me it was in regular use as a skipping song in Derry when he was a kid - and long before, as far as he knows. He also mentioned a Donegal singer who sang it with a chorus in Irish (Gaelic).

Regards

p.s. Joe: your first find has a distinctly Irish feel to it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:13 AM

Chris

Jim has a few songs rcorded in various places - but not this one, to the best of my knowledge. I may see him this weekend and will ask him for his set of words and source.

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN CHINAMAN
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 07:47 PM

I found part of this song on a Public Broadcasting System site, and the whole text here (click). Again, not the song requested - but it certainly shows the racism of the era.
-Joe Offer-

---

JOHN CHINAMAN - Anonymous Song

John Chinaman, John Chinaman,
But five short years ago,
I welcomed you from Canton, John-
But I wish I hadn't though;

For then I thought you honest, John,
Not dreaming but you'd make
A citizen as useful, John,
As any in the State.

I thought you'd open wide your ports
And let our merchants in
To barter for their crapes and teas,
Their wares of wood and tin.

I thought you'd cut your queue off, John,
And don a Yankee coat,
And a collar high you'd raise, John,
Around your dusky throat.

I imagined that the truth, John,
You'd speak when under oath,
But I find you'll lie and steal too-
Yes, John, you're up to both.

I thought of rats and puppies, John
You'd eaten your last fill;
But on such slimy pot-pies, John,
I'm told you dinner still.

Oh, John, I've been deceived in you,
And in all your thieving clan,
For our gold is all you're after, John,
To get it as you can.


Lyrics in Lingenfelter & Dwyer, Songs of the American West, page 299

Original: California Songster, (David Appleton, 1855) p. 44

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN CHINAMAN'S APPEAL
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 07:34 PM

Don't know the requested song, but I found this powerful song on this site (click) on the California Gold Rush.
-Joe Offer-

---

JOHN CHINAMAN'S APPEAL
Tune: Umbrella Courtship


1
American, now mind my song,
   If you would but hear me sing,
And I will tell you of the wrong,
   That happened until unto "Gee Sing,"
In "fifty-two" I left my home --
   I bid farewell to "Hong Kong" --
I started with Cup Gee to roam
   To the land where they use the "long tom".

CHORUS:
O ching hi ku tong mo ching ching,
   O ching hi ku tong chi do,
Cup Gee hi ku tong mo ching, ching
   Then what could Gee or I do?

2
In forty days I reached the Bay,
   And nearly starved I was, sir,
I cooked and ate a dog one day -
   I didn't know the laws sir -
But soon I found my dainty meal
   Was against the city order.
The penalty I had to feel -
   Confound the old Recorder.

3
By paying up my cost and fines,
   They freed me from the locker,
And then I started for the mines -
   I got a pick and rocker.
I went to work in an untouched place,
   I'm sure I meant no blame sir -
But a white man struck me in the face
   And told me to leave his claim, sir.

4
'Twas then I packed my tools away
   And set up in a new place,
But there they would not let me stay -
   They didn't like the cue race.
And then I knew not what to do,
   I could not get employ,
The Know Nothings would bid me go -
   'Twas tu nah mug ahoy.

5
I started then for Weaverville
   Where Chinamen were thriving,
But found our China agents there
   In ancient feuds were driving.
So I pitched into politics,
   But with the weaker party;
The Canton's with their clubs and bricks
   Did drub us out "right hearty."

6
I started for Yreka then;
   I thought that I would stay there,
But found for even Chinamen
   The "diggings" wouldn't pay there.
So I set up a washing shop,
   But how extremely funny,
The miners all had dirty clothes,
   But not a cent of money.

7
I met a big stour Indian once,
   He stopped me in the trail, sir,
He drew an awful scalping knife,
   And I trembled for my tail, sir.
He caught me by the hair, it's true,
   In a manner quite uncivil,
But when he saw my awful cue,
   He thought I was the devil.

8
Oh, now my friends I'm going away
   From this infernal place, sir;
The balance of my days I'll stay
   With the Celestial race, sir.
I'll go to raising rice and tea;
   I'll be a heathen ever,
For Christians all have treated me
   As men should be used never.

---

Lyrics in Lingenfelter & Dwyer, Songs of the American West, page 302 Also take a look at John Chinaman, My Jo in the Digital Tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Yorkie
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 06:40 PM

Thanks Joe for your version. And thanks Martin for the info about Jim McFarland. Any idea if he has recorded it or any way I could contact him?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:42 AM

A fine Derry singer called Jim McFarland sings this as a duet with his young son - to tremendous applause!

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: IN CHINATOWN THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN
From: jets
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:29 PM

I remember it as:

In Chinatown there lived a great man
His name was Chikety Chikadi Chikedy Dan
His toes were short and his feet were long
And this is the way the poor Chinaman would talk.
Chikeli de li delo, in a chinawa china ki, in a banana go wachi ow.

Now this china man had plenty of wealth
He lived in a mansion all by himself
His neighbors were good and bought him a boat
And set the poor Chinaman afloat.
Singing chikli de lie delo, in a chinawa china ki, in a banana go wachi ow.

It has been at least 70 years since I have heard this song, so forgive what errors there may be. Joe

Subject: In Chinaland there lived a great man
From: Yorkie
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:10 PM

Does anyone recognise these fragments of an old song?

"In Chinaland there lived a great man.
His name was Chicker Acker Choo Chay Chan
Chicker Acker Choo Chay Chan Chickerlorum
On my pourum..............................
..............diddy pie diddy pie Chee Anko".

(Please accept my apologies if you find this song offensive. I'm interested in the development and persistence of xenophobic/racist "humour").