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ADD: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span)

DigiTrad:
THE FALSE KNIGHT AND THE WEE BOY
THE FALSE KNIGHT ON THE ROAD 2
THE FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD
THE FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD (4)
THE SMART SCHOOLBOY


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Lyr Add: Où vas-tu, mon petit garçon? (Acadian) (56)
Lyr Req: False Knight (#3, from Pete & Chris Coe) (13)
Lyr Req: Child on the Road (Archie Fisher/Child #3 (14)
Lyr Req: Child?ballad Little Boy Just ___ yrs (5)


09 May 98 - 03:24 PM
Joe Offer 09 May 98 - 04:53 PM
Ted from Australia 09 May 98 - 08:35 PM
JB3 10 May 98 - 05:55 AM
11 May 98 - 03:12 PM
Alan of Australia 12 May 98 - 01:42 AM
Lighter 16 Mar 18 - 07:16 PM
Gordon Jackson 18 Mar 18 - 05:15 PM
Georgiansilver 18 Mar 18 - 05:44 PM
Lighter 18 Mar 18 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,kenny 18 Mar 18 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,kenny 18 Mar 18 - 07:11 PM
Lighter 18 Mar 18 - 08:28 PM
Richie 18 Mar 18 - 10:42 PM
Richie 18 Mar 18 - 10:47 PM
Richie 18 Mar 18 - 10:52 PM
Richie 18 Mar 18 - 11:47 PM
Richie 19 Mar 18 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,kenny 19 Mar 18 - 05:41 AM
Richie 19 Mar 18 - 06:02 PM
Lighter 19 Mar 18 - 07:21 PM
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Subject: False Knight as sung by Steeleye Span
From:
Date: 09 May 98 - 03:24 PM

Could somebody post the lyrics to False Knight On The Road as sung by Steeleye Span on Please To See The King? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: False Knight as sung by Steeleye Span
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 98 - 04:53 PM

Hi - if you'll put [false knight] in the box in the upper-right corner of this page (using square brackets will get you just songs with that exact phrase), you'll find four versions of the song, which is Child Ballad #3. None is exactly the version sung by Steeleye Span, but they're close enough that you should be able to understand the song. I checked a couple of Steeleye Span Web sites, and they refer back here to the Digital Tradition. If you check back every once in a while, you may find that some true fan has posted the exact lyrics you want. There are a number of loyal Steeleye Span fans hereabouts.
This is the closest we have to the Steeleye Span tune for the song, I think - but it's not exact, either.
Take a look at this site. I think you'll like it.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: Lyr Add: FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD (Steeleye Span
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 09 May 98 - 08:35 PM

Here you go:

False Knight On The Road

The False Knight is the devil and if the `wee boy' failed to answer his questions he would lose his soul to the devil. [Sleeve Notes]

"Oh, where are you going," says the false knight on the road
"I'm going to me school," says the wee boy and still he stood
"What is on your back," says the false knight on the road
"Me bundles and me books," says the wee boy and still he stood

"I came and walking by your door," says the false knight on the road
"That lay in your way," says the wee boy and still he stood
"Flung your dog a stone," says the false knight on the road
"I wish it was a bone," says the wee boy and still he stood

"Oh, what sheep and cattle's that," says the false knight on the road
"They're mine and me father's," says the wee boy and still he stood
"And how many shall be mine," says the false knight on the road
"The ones that have a blue tail," says the wee boy and still he stood

"Oh, then I get a share o' them," says the false knight on the road
"You cannot get a share of them," says the wee boy and still he stood
"And why the stick all in your hand," says the false knight on the road
"To keep me from all cold and harm," says the wee boy and still he stood

"Oh, I wish you were in younder tree," says the false knight on the road
"A ladder under me," says the wee boy and still he stood
"The ladder it'll break," says the false knight on the road
"And you will surely fall," says the wee boy and still he stood

"I wish you were in younder sea," says the false knight on the road
"A good boat under me," says the wee boy and still he stood
"The boat will surely sink," says the false knight on the road
"And you will surely drown," says the wee boy and still he stood

"Has your mother more than you," says the false knight on the road
"Oh, none of them for you," says the wee boy and still he stood
"I think I hear a bell," says the false knight on the road
"It's ringing you to hell," says the wee boy and still he stood



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Subject: RE: False Knight as sung by Steeleye Span
From: JB3
Date: 10 May 98 - 05:55 AM

I remember hearing that the reason most versions mention how still the boy stands, is that he's standing in a magic circle and dare not leave the protection that it affords. Usually the diabolic knight is undone by the mentioning of "hell", a sort of power-in-naming that's found in some other old ballads.


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Subject: RE: False Knight as sung by Steeleye Span
From:
Date: 11 May 98 - 03:12 PM

Thanks all for replying -- I just got internet access and am amazed at how much friendlier the world seems when you can choose your surroundings. This is such a great site!


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Subject: RE: False Knight as sung by Steeleye Span
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 12 May 98 - 01:42 AM

Welcome Masked Stranger,
You're right, this is a great site. It's even better if you use a name or pseudonym so we can have some idea who we are talking to.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Mar 18 - 07:16 PM

The tune Martin Carthy uses on the Steeleye album is the reel called "The Primrose Girl."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:15 PM

Actually, Lighter, The Primrose Lass is the tune Carthy used for Four Nights Drunk. I'm not sure where the False Knight tune came from.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 05:44 PM

False Knight on the Road by Steeleye Span..... Hear it here.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 06:09 PM

Sure sounds like "The Primrose Girl" to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHqFyRT1AhU


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 07:07 PM

Danny Couper sang a Scottish version of this [ which he got from Jeannie Robertson ] at a ceilidh in Aberdeen last night. The tune he used - essentially the same as Carthy, but a slightly different rhythm - he called "The Rose Tree", which I think is the Scottish name for it.
The tune they used for "Four Nights Drunk" is certainly sometimes called "The Primrose Lass" in Irish traditional music circles.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 07:11 PM

From "thesession.org" [ not infallible, I know ] :

T: The Rose Tree
R: polka
M: 2/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
f/e/ |: dB AF | A>B AB | d2 ed/e/ | fe ef/e/ |
dB AF | A>B AB | d2 ed/e/ | fd d2 :|
|:fe fg | a2 gf | eb ba | be ef/e/ |
dB AF | A>B AB | d2 ed/e/ | fd d2 :|

T: The Primrose Lasses
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmaj
B3A G3E|DEGA BAA2|dBAB GAGE|DFGA BGG2|
B3A G3E|DEGA BAA2|dcBA GFED|DFGA BGG2:|
Bdgd edgd|Bdgd eAA2|Bdgd edgd|BdAc BGG2|
Bdgd edgd|Bdgd eAA2|Bdef gage|dBAc BGG2:|

Sort it out yourselves.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 08:28 PM

Hmmm. "The Rose Tree" it seems to be.

But the tunes are surprisingly similar - at least to me.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Richie
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 10:42 PM

Hi,

There a version of it here: http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/play/90538;jsessionid=D095FE04C1E49BDB50670DC52A18E20A

Recorded in 1972 from an unknown scottish group at School of Scottish Studies,

Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Richie
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 10:47 PM

Hi,

Here's a version of "The Rose Tree" on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etQ7knwsglU

Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Richie
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 10:52 PM

Hi,

Was it recorded by Jeanie Robertson and if so what recording? or Lizzie Higgins? Where did Steeleye Span get their text?

Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Richie
Date: 18 Mar 18 - 11:47 PM

Hi,

The earliest commercial recording I know with the "Rose Tree Melody" was 1868: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW0U1WEoEks Norman Kennedy of Aberdeen.

Hamlish Henderson recorded it in 1955 from Duncan MacPhee in the berryfields of Blairgowrie, Perthshire in the summer of 1955.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span
From: Richie
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 12:21 AM

Yeah, that date of the Kennedy recording was 1968 :)

Richie


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Subject: RE: ADD: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span)
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 05:41 AM

I can help the School Of Scottish Studies with regards to this one. The "unknown" group are most likely from Aberdeen. That's certainly Tom Spiers introducing the songs and singing. 99% certain I can hear Arthur Watson joining in on the chorus. The 2 of them had a group at the time which included Sandy Cheyne on 5-string banjo and John Vittie on concertina. They may have been the other players. I can't say for certain because although I was in Kinross at the festival at which that was recorded, and remember seeing them there, I wasn't at that concert. You did used to get impromptu bands thrown together on the spur of the moment, but that arrangement sounds to me to be a bit "tighter" than that. There were several line-ups to the group, but I believe that was a very rare recorded performance by "The Ghille Mhor", which was a precursor to "The Gaugers".
Next time I see Danny C., I'll ask him for more information about his version of "The Knight", and what he remembers about getting the song from Jeannie.


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Subject: RE: ADD: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span)
From: Richie
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 06:02 PM

Thanks for sharing Kenny,

It's cool that you were there and know something about that version- it's a great version but I need a source to include it on my site. These are some of the Scottish branch I've just put on:

   d. "The False Knight Upon the Road,' sung by Bella Higgins (b. circa 1890) of Perthshire when she was 65, learned when she was a little girl (st. 10 years old) about 1900. Recorded in 1955 and 1958 by Hamish Henderson. She sings the first strain of "Rose tree' as melody. from Collection at School of Scottish Studies; Original Track ID - SA1958.64.A3 from two recordings.
j. "False Knight," sung by Nellie MacGregor of Perthshire in 1954. Pentatonic V. A two-phrase tune, Form AA. Collected by Hamlish Henderson; from Scottish Studies - Volumes 9-10 - page 12, 1965.
   k. "False Knight." Sung by Duncan MacPhee, recorded in the Hamlish Henderson in the berryfields of Blairgowrie, Perthshire in the summer of 1955. He uses the tune - "The Rose Tree." Published with music in Scottish Studies - Volumes 9-10 - Page 10, 1965.
   l. "The False Knight upon the Road," sung by Charlotte Higgins 1895-1971 of Perthshire, Blairgowrie. Born on the moss between Torphins and Lumphanan, and travelled in Aberdeenshire before settling in Blairgowrie. Recorded by Hamish Henderson, 1958. Fragment from: Collection - School of Scottish Studies; Original Track ID - SA1958.64.A5
   m. "The False Knight upon the Road." As sung by Belle Stewart, Blairgowrie, Perthshire. August 1964. Learned from Ruby Kelby's mother, Christina MacKenzie; from "Till Doomsday in the Afternoon: The Folklore of a Family of Scots Travelers" by Ewan McColl, Peggy Seeger.
   n. "False Knight," sung by Willie Whyte of Hayton, Aberdeen (Pentatonic I Form AABA.) before 1965 (1962?). His melody was "The Rose Tree." From Scottish Studies - Volumes 9-10 - page 12, 1965.
   o. The Fause Knight Upon the Road- sung by Norman Kennedy of Aberdeenshire. From Norman Kennedy's 1968 Folk-Legacy album "Ballads & Songs of Scotland." Kennedy a native of from Aberdeen came to the US about 1965. Sung to the traditional Scottish tune, "Rose Tree."
   p. "The False Knight Upon the Road," sung by Johnnie Whyte of Perthshire Recorded in 1975 and 1978 by Mrs. Williamson; He learned the song when she was small from his mother; from Mrs. Linda Williamsons (wife of Duncan Williamson) 1985 thesis on Scottish Travellers (Narrative Singing Among Scots Travellers

My site is here: haven't finished Child 3 yet but I'm getting there:

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/english-and-other-versions-of-fause-knight.aspx

Richie


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Subject: RE: ADD: False Knight upon the Road (Steeleye Span)
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Mar 18 - 07:21 PM

Tim Hart and Maddy Prior recorded a different version on "Summer Solstice" in 1971:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEpBlbSWmh4

Source?


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