The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: TonyK
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 02:04 AM

There were only 150,000 votes cast and they were split among 6,500 songs. The poll was a bit lame.
Tony K

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 01:27 PM

So does this mean "Alsation once again" is the world's greatest parody???

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Den
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 01:28 PM

Oops lost me cookie.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Eire32
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM

While I find it interesting that so many people have such to say about this lovely song, saying it is "sad" because the Irish have already "achieved the status" of being a Nation is downright uninformed, to be kind. How can you possibly assert that the Irish are a "Nation Once Again" when the north eastern 6 counties are being held hostage by Blair and Paisley? How can a country and a people (and I do passionately include the Protestants in the northeast in this) be united if there are still borders within the one island that create false separations? Two currencies and two governments does not make a "Nation Once Again."

A lesson in civics, history and land usage is in order my dear "Strupag."

To Coyote Breath (guess who this is!?) and Belfast: While I agree with Tony K that the poll was a bit ragged being so very spread out among so few votes and so many songs, Belfast is right; you could not vote multiple times unless you had multiple computers at multiple locations. SO... small numbers aside, this vote was about as legit as you can get. And wasn't it really about keeping "Believe" by Cher out of the top spot? How is it rigging to ask your friends to all vote? Isn't that what democracy is about? Doing what people you agree with do to try and effect no change whatsoever?

I am pleased with this song's place, though agree that the Wolfe Tones version is not as nice as the version I heard myself in Lenadoon on St. Pat's Day last year. Rather more rousing with 300 men, women and children belting it out with feeling.

Slan,

-Eire32

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Of course it is rigging.
The poll was intended for World Service listeners and it was taken from them. Not a great crime, but why push your prejudice in this way

I also get annoyed when so called Guests exploit these threads for their own purposes, but at least they must read them.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM

Oh yes, I meant to say it's a good rigging that can focus on an issue such as the wee north being at last part of a Nation once again.

No certainly, the republic divided from it's geographic whole is not a Nation once again. Perhaps a Notion Yet Again. Even so, Ireland will only be a nation once again and once and for all when the people create that nation. And THAT means ALL the people, orange and green. It is both my prayer and belief that such a thing will come to pass and within my lifetime.

CB

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: The Pooka
Date: 28 Dec 02 - 07:36 PM

Mine too, CB. / Now, who was it who wrote "Three Quarters of a Nation Once Again"? (Along, I think, with "God Save the Southern Part of Ireland":)

Big Tim - "...a piece of nonsense, 'The West's Awake' should have won it!" LOL! Spot on!! *Much* better song.

A few days ago I read a quote from one of the (decommissioned??) Wolfetones -- Derek? -- to the effect that the Irish, and Diaspora Irish, 'had a good little campaign going'. O to be Sure. :) It didn't hurt to have the Beatles vote (and others' too) split up among so many nominees from the same group. T'anks be to Gawd for Mere Pluralty Winners./ Now, if the poll had been done by the Single Transferable Vote system, as for, e.g., the Dail -- well, we'll never know, will we. Like Sinn Fein (their political wing), the Wolfetones might not have gotten too many transfer votes...

Declan - "As they say in Irish Republican circles vote early and vote often." Yup. And, I see by the papers the Republic is going all-electronic-voting-systems, next time around. Woo woo... / Katlaughing, if you liked Florida, yer gonna LOVE internet voting in actual elections... / "Now the time is coming fast, and I think it's almost here..." -D. Behan

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 12:24 PM

What is a little surprising is the response to the results of this poll. A few people have reacted in a rather immoderate and ill-tempered fashion.

The poll was hijacked. Anyone who had ever been in a vehicle that had been hijacked would be a little more careful in his use of that ludicrous metaphor.

Those who voted weren't really entitled to vote. If you don't listen to the BBC World Service for a certain number of hours every day you were cheating when you voted. I'm not too sure who invented this rule but it wasn't created until after the result was known.

Those who voted for the winner are petty, narrow, backward-looking and just plain wrong This is undoubtedly true. And people who vote for the wrong things simply shouldn't be allowed to vote. This should be the privilege of those who are better educated, have more understanding, and think rather like me.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 02:57 PM

Belfast, that is how metphors work. What do you say when someone murders a favorite song?

Of course there were no rules about who could vote.
It was an informal bit of fun. But what does that say about the humourless hordes who called each other up, Hey, a station you never heard of is having a vote. We're all going to.......

I still think they are a bit sad.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,chicago
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 03:05 PM

Thomas Davis was a patriotic and progressive thinking Irish Protestant, as were many of the greatest heoes of Irish nationalism.( Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, Erskine Childers and Parnell to name a few.)I am sure that he would be proud to know that his stirring lyrics written 160 years ago continue to call attention to his as yet unrealised dream.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: ex-pat
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM

Well said Guest from Chicago. Too many people have got caught up in modern politics and, apparently, have missed the point. Thomas Davis was a visionary, a United Irishman, May he REST IN PEACE.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Declan
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:34 AM

Technically Thomas Davis was a Young Irelander. The United Irishmen weren't formed until well after his death.

I have heard that (Glasgow) Celtic supporter's clubs had a lot to do with the spreading of the word on this poll and the winnijng of it by the Wolf Tones. The WTs owe much of their current popularity with the current young generation in Ireland with their association with Celtic. Good old Wolf Tones helping to keep sectarianism alive on both sides of the Sea of Moyle (Northern Channel)!

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:08 PM

OMIGAWD! is it REALLY called the Sea of Moyle? That is flippin unreal! And if any wonder why I would say that, consider. Moyle was my mother's maiden name. Moyle is her side of a rather extended and totally strange family from the Mauston area of Wisconsin and earlier from Gweek in Cornwall. I am truly stunned!

The Moyles are all Methodists (well, some are Mormons, too). Mother loved the music of Ireland and never considered herself Cornish or English but of Irish descent. I think she would have gotten a giggle out of ANOA winning.

The Sea of Moyle! I'll have to tell my cousin Susan about THAT!

CB

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM

A BBC World Service Poll? Which one for goodness sakes! Is there only one?


I would have probably voted for John Denver's Country Road which is played in almost every country in the world.

Is there a hint of politics involved here on behalf of the BBC?

Maybe if someone polled Irish radio, the most popular song in the world might well be "Rule Brittania". :)

Frank

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:06 PM

BTW, I like the song and enjoy singing it in certain situations. I'd love to see unity in Ireland.

For this, I'll vote for Tommy Sand's songs.

Frank

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:27 PM

I'm in lecturing, but not hectoring, mode: again!

Belfast: "hijacking" now has a more general meaning.

CB: surely you're familiar with Thomas Moore's "Silent Oh Moyle"?

Declan; Young Ireland, 1848. United Irishmen, 1784?-1803? (Not the other way around!)

Wolfetones: crap!

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:31 PM

No, Pooka, no! Not like Florida!!**BG** Saints and sinners preserve us from all that!

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 07:28 AM

Tim, Keith Wood was nominated as the Worlds best Rugby hooker by the Rugby Worlds sporting press, and for the benefit of our US catters, this is not to be confused with Hugh Grants nominee from the streets of the US.
And let us not forget Princess Anne who was voted tops in the horse of the year. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 08:20 AM

Anyone who voted for Princess anne as Horse Of The Year was spot on!!

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 09:57 AM

I think "Nation" once vied with "God Save Ireland" as unofficial national anthem before ""Soldier's Song" was adopted (in 1926?)                                                               

"A good song is worth a thousand harangues"                                                            

"Music is the first faculty of the Irish"                                                               

"We will endeavour to teach the people to sing the songs of their country that they may keep alive in their minds the love of fatherland" -Thomas Davis.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 12:28 PM

I am certainly grateful to those who pointed out that the word "hijack" was not being used literally but as a metaphor. However they might have guessed that I was aware of this if only because I described it as a metaphor. My point was that it is a ludicrous metaphor. I believed that I had made this clear by using the phrase "ludicrous metaphor". There is no connection between what happened here and a hijacking. To pretend that there is a connection is ludicrous.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

In an earlier post on this thread I asked for details about an NI folk music broadcast: I don't know if this is the same one but the Radio Times reports that on 10 January on BBC 4 is "Musical Traditions: Northern Ireland has one of the richest song traditions in the British Isles. This documentary considers the influence of the home countries on northern song".

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 04:59 PM

Belfast, I acknowledged your metaphor post, just challenging your description of it as ludicrous.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Declan
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 05:36 AM

Big Tim,

Thanks for the correction. I was getting my centuries mixed up !

I definitely agree with your last point.

And yes CB its Gaelic name is Sruth Na Maoile, usually translatted as the Sea of Moyle, although Sruth is literally translated as a channel or stream.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 12:40 PM

Gee Big Tim! I actually downloaded that song a little bit ago but didn't read it carefully! (obviously) I thought it was about a river. Mom did say something about a river. I have since looked up Moyle and find it to be a district of County Antrim. It looks as though Ballycastle might be Moyle's principal town. My mom and sister visited England about 6 years ago. They went to Cornwall and to Devon. They never got to the North. She said that it was lovely country and there had been a John Moyle farm near Tolvan Cross which I guess is an old church or something? I can't find Tolvan on the map but what maps I have aren't detailed.

Is Moyle one of the Antrim "glens"?

CB

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 04:00 PM

Hi CB! I got that book that you recommended a while back. Very interesting to say the least. Thread drift coming up ...

"Moyle, Sea of [Irish. Sruth na Maoile, 'stream of the bare, rounded summit']. Archaic and poetic name for the narrowest part of water between Northern Ireland and Scotland, the Mull of Kintyre, usually known as the North Channel. When Northern Ireland was redistricted [sic] in 1974, the voting unit immediately adjacent to the North Channel, formerly in County Antrim, became known as Moyle" - Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, by James MacKillop, Oxford University Press, 1998.

"SILENT OH MOYLE - this lyric is based on the legend of Fionnuala, the daughter of Lir, who was transformed into a swan by her jealous stepmother Aoife. In this disguise she was condemned to wander for hundreds of years over certain lakes and rivers until the coming of Chrisianity to Ireland when the legend of the Mass-bell would signal her release. Moore took this well-known Irish legend and turned it into a political allegory" - Dear Harp of My Country; the Irish Melodies of Thomas Moore, by James W. Flannery [tenor], published by J.S.Sanders and Company, Nashville, 1997. (A book with two CDs of most of Moore's greatest songs). However, Mary O'Hara's version of the song is untouchable, in my opinion.

I don't think Moyle is one of the Antrim Glens, will check later.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 06:18 PM

I got an e-mail from a friend urging me to vote for ANOA, but although I enjoyed the caper I couldn't bring myself to do it because the song, through its association with the Wolfe Tones, has become an obnoxious expression of barrel-of-porter republicanism.

Nevertheless, I get some quiet satisfaction from the fact that it won on the BBC's World Service, whose signature tune is "Lillibulero", a well-known Ulster protestant/anti-catholic/sectarian chant.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 12:54 PM

I'm sure the BBC use of the tune is quite innocent, probably adopted before 1969, now so well established that they have decided to stick with it. As an Irish Catholic, I certainly take no offense at the use of the tune, which has a very interesting and very long history, the tune dating from 1540 and the words from 1687, depending on which scholar you believe. "Lillibulero", or "Lilliburlero" as it is more usually spelt, is indeed a derogatory anti-Catholic parody but it has to be seen in its historical context, The Williamite Wars. Anyway, the republicans also use a version of it as a slogan "tiochfaidh ar la" - "our day will come"!

CB: the 9 Antrim Glens are:

Glentaisie, Glenshesk, Glendun, Glencorp, Glenaan, Glenballyeamon,Glenarriff, Glencloy and Glenarm. Its beautiful country.

You might enjoy this book "A Dictionary of Ulster Place Names" by Patrick McKay. Institute of Irish Studies, Queens University, Belfast, 1999.

And, "Irish Place Names" by Deirdrie and Laurence Flanagan, Gill and Macmillan, Dublin, 1994.

The closest I could get, after only a very quick look I must admit, to "Tolvan" is "Tolvin", a townland in County Tyrone.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 03:01 PM

The World Service has dropped Lillibolero as it's tune.
Keith.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 04:11 PM

Thanks for that info Keith - I have never actually listened to BBC World Service in my life but knew that they used the tune.   

Check out the beautiful instrumental version of "Lilliburlero" (the tune is brilliant, the lyrics are just a bad joke) by "Na Casaidigh" on their album "1691", issued in 1992 on the Gaellinn label.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM

I hadn't noticed the disappearance of Lillibulero from the World Service. It never annoyed me. It's a fine tune and I doubt if anyone outside of folk music circles knows the words though they can be found in O'Lochlann's (Sp?) Irish Street Ballads. The WS version was played in the key of G and for insomniac guitar players, before the invention of tuners, was a convenient was of checking that they were still in concert pitch. (The theme tune for "The Archers", in the same key, serves the same purpose.)

But I recall that in the early 70's Graham Greene (or was it Robert Graves – I don't know how I could possibly confuse the two) wrote a letter to some paper or other protesting against its use.

To revert to an earlier topic, on the question of metaphors, it is, as usual, a matter of opinion, but as regards "murdering a song" I think we've all been guilty of that crime.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Felipa
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 09:05 AM

Keith, I was listening to the world service yesterday and on various days in the past week; Lillibulero is still the theme tune. They play the air, not the words.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 11:22 AM

Hi Felipa,
I tend to listen late night-early morning UK. I have not heard Lillibolero for a long time. They play a piece of orchestral music I don't recognise before bulletins. They never did play it with song.
When do you listen and where from?
Keith.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 11:44 AM

BBC World Service FAQ: Signature Tunes

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Wolf Tones are the worlds worst Irish showband. In general Irish music and song is great, the Wolf Tones represent the dregs.
Dave

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 12:40 AM

Oh darn! I had hoped it was a glen but I guess it needs "glen" in front of it. I always liked the poetic "glens of Antrim" references in songs and stories. Doesn't Henry Joy start out with a line about the Antrin Glens?

No my mom and sister never got out of Cornwall so Tolvan (or vin, who argues with a mom!) Cross was in Cornwall. A learned friend tells me "cross" probably meant 'crossroad'. So perhaps Tolvin is a place where roads crossed?!? At any rate it is in Cornwall.

CB

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 05:04 AM

Re World Service theme.
I don't know what is going on. I listened carefully to the announcement before the bulletin at 0400 GMT today.
They did not say "This is London".
They said they were the BBC World Service and listed a number of international cities, each spoken by a person with the appropriate accent. They then said BBC World Service and played about 7 notes of something that was not Lilli B.
Perhaps it's a time of day thing.
Irrelevant to the thread anyway.Sorry.
Keith.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Felipa
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:06 PM

Keith, I was listening in Holland last week

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Felipa
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 01:07 PM

in daytime mostly

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Big Tim
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 02:58 PM

The origins of "lilliburlero", the word, are obscure: may be derived from an Irish (Catholic)password from the 1641 rebellion: "buallaidh ar la", a variant of "tiochfhaidh ar lar" - "our day will come". (I'm not an Irish speaker, so this is second-hand).

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:43 AM

By chance I was listening to the World Service last night (or early this morning) and there it was. Just before the 2.00a.m. (GMT) news bulletin, the strains of Lillibulero. But it was not there at the 3.00 bulletin.

As for the meaning of the phrase, it has of course been discussed before. A Thread On The Meaning Of Lillibulero

It has been suggested that a current Republican slogan, Tiocaidh ar lá, is somehow related. This new slogan is more likely to have been influenced by the slogans of the American Civil Rights Movement (We Shall Overcome) and the Castroist's Venceremos.

And it has just occurred to me that "slogan" is one of the few words in English derived from a Celtic language.

Is that what we mean by thread creep?

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 03:46 PM

I got in a small amount of trouble with our local newspaper when I signed an ardent letter about events in the North "signed" with the name Chuck E. Arlah.

They refused to print it (the editor called me at home) because they knew it was not my name. The newspaper's policy is to print any signed letter (one CAN request one's name not be displayed) but no letter unsigned or signed with a pseudonym. They publish on Wednesdays and Fridays. They printed my letter on the Friday AFTER March 17 (a Wednesday, that year) when I had wanted the letter printed. I couldn't argue with their policy since they insist on people taking responsibility for their statements but the fact they KNEW it was me was a bit disconcerting. I said to print it with my name and they did so.

CB

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:36 AM

I'm told that the BBC World Service, like many posters to this thread , is unhappy with the results of the poll. So they're having another poll! At any minute I expect to hear a high–pitched whine, "It's my ball and I'm not playing with you any more! I'm going home!"

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:47 AM

Belfast you are correct about Lillibulero, I have heard it within the past couple of days, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: belfast
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:59 AM

And it's very annoying at 2 o'clock in the morning to have to sit in the passageway just to stop the radio from marching from the livingroom into the kitchen because it claims that this is a "traditional route".

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: GUEST,Pauline
Date: 13 May 10 - 10:10 PM

A bit late to this thread...

Guys, get a sense of humor. It was a funny Irish thing to do a bit of mischief...I voted and I often listened to BBC world service when I'm abroad ;)

It also relates to a further piece of mischief in 1901 when Maud Gonne was taking 300 school children to Tara, the sacred hill of Ireland to teach them about their history. The owner of the land had a bombfire on the Hill to be lit to celebrate the New King of England, which she decided was much better lit in honor of Ireland...

So they did, dancing around it singing 'a nation once again' ....much to the disgust of the British landowner and subsequently the policeman.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 May 10 - 11:28 PM

Someone revives a moribund thread after 7 years...shoulda let it lie there.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 May 10 - 11:28 PM

Shit! Now I've refreshed it.

Damn! Did it again.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: mousethief
Date: 14 May 10 - 05:58 PM

Never heard of it.

Subject: RE: The world's favorite song - A Nation Once Again
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 May 10 - 06:05 PM

Actually Maud Gonne was a fantastic figure, worthy of remembering.