BS: Democrat = Republican

Subject: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 10:50 AM

The first thing the new U.S. Congress did was to propose a universal military draft. All our troops are being sent overseas, so now the global banking cartel is going to make sure the most effective age-group, when it comes to fighting, is added to those overseas. Can't have effective resistance to the U.N. troops.

Democrats first proposed the draft. Congressman Charles Rangel...HATED Democrat from New York (home of the liberals). He even played the race card and said we need a draft because there are too many blacks in the military. Pushed all the white, conservative buttons.

The Republican congress reacted by 'shooting down' the draft proposal. Only they didn't, really. And here's how it works.

The Republican congress members postured for their constituents and stood up to the evil Rangel. But now, when the next government-sponsored terrorist attack comes, Republican leaders will inflict great SHAME and GUILT on their constituents over the draft issue. "We must join forces with the Democrats to fight terrorism", the current nominal head of the Bush Terrorist Organization will say, and all Republicans will swallow their pride and sign on to the draft.

This is how the U.S. has got into the fix we are currently in. Over and over and over Democrats and Republicans at the national level have played 'good cop bad cop' to get massive social legislation passed.

The Kyoto Accord? It's coming. You morons will get your THIRTY PERCENT GASOLINE TAX going straight into the coffers of the murdering U.N. before long. Bush shot it down, but now it's been re-named and will be voted on soon by the U.S. congress. The REPUBLICAN congress. And it will pass. And Bush, will sign it.

Washington and others warned the two-party system could be the death of America, and they may have been right. Third parties are only used to siphon off votes and change election outcomes. Perot took enough votes from Bush to give Clinton the election, Nader did the same to Gore. And the global banking cartel ALWAYS GETS THEIR CANDIDATE ELECTED.

What we have in Washington right now, by the way are 'neo-cons'. New Conservatives. But if you look at their record, they are constructing a massive social control system like the old Soviet Union's. Call it what you will...socialism, marxism, fascism...the neo-cons are for expanded federal government, even though they said they would reduce government in our lives.

We've been played like a jukebox.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 01:39 PM

Well, when corporate capitalism gets very, very big...as it has...it begins to function in a very similar way to monolithic Communism...only the outer style and rhetoric are somewhat different. The daily propaganda of corporatism is mostly in the form of commercial advertising and empty but spectacular entertainment (movies, sports, wrestling, pornography, TV, music videos, etc.) to keep the masses distracted. The marketing of addictive drugs (both legal and illegal) is a key method of controlling and weakening the public will and ability to focus on what's happening.

Real competition ceases, as corporate monopolies take over, but the illusion of competition is maintained through many popular brand names. Small local businesses die and are replaced by massive interests like WalMart or McDonalds or Wendy's or KFC or you name it.

Independent labour is crushed utterly. Neither communism nor corporatism can tolerate independent labour unions.

The bosses live in almost unheard of luxury. Most people don't even know who the bosses are. The rest of the public gets poorer year by year. The bosses have lots of armed employees and soldiers to protect them, selected from among the more naive and brutal members of the population, who for their loyalty get a uniform, a secure job, and a chance to beat up or kill other people with impunity.

The police and security services move from protecting the public to protecting the bosses and terrorizing the public.

The army exists not to protect the nation, but to attack anyone in any other nation that has not yet been fully absorbed into the corporate system.

The leaders at the very top...bankers, CEO's, politicians (their mouthpieces), corporate lawyers, judges, military commanders, scientists, medical authorities, and technologists...essentially work as a single, secret committee, branching out to smaller committees. Its objective: to enlarge its powers, maintain its supremacy, extend its reach, and perpetuate its stranglehold on...everything.

Money is the carrot used to control the membership. Money...and the gun. If they won't succumb to money, they will to the gun.

Today Iraq. Tomorrow the World.

Hail Caesar!!! Hail to the Chief!!! Heil...(oops!)

I've been saying for years that the Democrats & Republicans are just two halves of the same rotten apple.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 02:15 PM

Yes, and there are plenty of other people to vote for besides Democrats & Republicans. If we would start electing some of them, maybe things could change.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 02:48 PM

Possibly...I have been voting outside the mainstream for some time now, because the political mainstream in Canada has been totally bought out.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 04:06 PM

L.H., Kim: you don't recognize a flamer when you see one? :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 04:19 PM

Flamer. Geez...you have a problem with thinking outside the box, DougR. I could be Mao Tse Tung or Lyndon LaRouche...what does it matter? The thought is the thing. And this is a legitimate issue. The people at the top of the political system in the U.S. are working to bring down the U.S. And it's the same in all developed countries. In 2007 the U.S. dollar will be history. The AmeroDollar will replace it. Set in stone.

So, the problem for our leaders now becomes how to deflate the American economy so our 2007 buck is equal in buying power to today's peso. That kind of thing can't be accomplished unless our leaders are working CONTRARY to our interests as Americans. Investors are being driven out of our country by our leaders. Our leaders are killing world confidence in our currency. And it is intentional. So get over your problem with 'flamers'. There are more serious issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 06:31 PM

Yo GUEST: Dougie, bless his heart, just ain't wired to look into the future and see that what you and Little Hawk are suggesting is very much a reality. That's the problem with either *true beleiving* Democrats or Republicnas. They just want to be in the winner's circle on election day. Kind of like going to the track and betting on a horse accept inthis case many of our fellow earthin gs are being sacrificed to keep things entertaining.

As fir me, I left the Dems over decade ago and as long as they want to play "rival fraternity" I'll vote and work for candiadtes (mostly Green) that offer a *real* alternative, thank you.

Bober

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 08:02 PM

Amen, Bobert.

GUEST - I would strongly suggest putting some of your money aside in gold coins, if you can spare it. Better coins than bars or wafers. They're more negotiable. Forget about a "certificate", cos it probably won't be worth the paper it's printed on at some point.

Interest is pathetically low now anyway, so best to put your eggs in a few different baskets rather than leaving 'em all in the bank, so to speak.

If a rabbit has several different exits from his underground home, he's in a far better position than if he has only one or two. If he's got a second home to take refuge in, even better.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:51 AM

I suppose Doug and I would be better at thinking outside the box like you folks do, except we forgot to prepare ourselves properly.

Yep.

We forgot to smoke pot every day from the sixth grade onward. There are several drugs we have neglected to try. I bet neither of us has been on an eight week LSD binge in several years. We probably screwed up and got ourselves gainfully employed as "wage-slaves" catering to the evil global corporate capitalist economy. We've even deluded ourselves into believing we enjoy our work, when we'd probably be much happier living in a commune making tofu and wearing baggy red pants.

Subject: RE: BS: The Matrix
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 10:47 AM

You don't understand economics. Here's one of my lectures from another forum. Maybe it'll help you a bit. I post on a lot of forums, by the way, which is the way to reach people. That, and e-mail short letters with valid points to editorial writers. They reach a million people at a time with their columns, and they're surprisingly unaware of some things:

---------

There are two fundamental ways of viewing history -- the 'accidental' view, in which things just happen and people capitalize on events as they occur, and the 'conspiratorial' view, in which everything is planned in advance. I believe in the second view. To quote FDR, "In politics, nothing ever 'just happens'."

Paradigm -- (pronounced 'PAIR-a-dime') noun: MODEL, PATTERN

If you have seen the movie 'The Matrix', you may understand the concept of a false paradigm. In the film, the reality we know as the here-and-now is really just a synthethic reality created and maintained by machines in the future. I bring this up because YOU may be living a false reality stemming from the events of September 11, 2001.

THE HISTORY BEHIND SEPTEMBER 11:

Two hundred years ago Nathan Rothschild began a banking empire. He trained his sons in the art of finance, and soon his family was loaning money to most of the governments of Europe. But business was always flat unless there was a war going on, so the 'Rothschild Formula' was developed. If there is a powerful country bordering a weak one, tell the weak one it is about to be invaded and loan it money to buy weapons. When the weak country has reached parity (military equality) with the strong one, send in agents to provoke a war, then finance even MORE armaments transactions as the two countries fight. The Rothschilds financed HUNDREDS of wars in the 19th century using this formula.   They even had a hand in provoking and financing both the North and the South in the American Civil War.

But then, at the start of the 20th century, regional conflicts weren't generating the revenue they used to. The growth of the Rothschild banking empire was slowing. And, to make matters worse, they had been joined in the world of global finance by other banking families like the Morgans and the Rockefellers.   This could have been a period of intense competition between the bankers, but instead of fighting among themselves, they agreed to form a banking cartel and, together, gain control of all the money in the world. Their agreed-upon goal was to someday translate this money into property and thereby purchase the planet.

To achieve this end, the global banking cartel established privately-owned central banks in all the major countries of the world. Banks like the Federal Reserve in the U.S. And over the past hundred years, these central banks have made it possible for the global bankers to continue using the Rothschild Formula of building weak neighbors into strong ones for the purpose of engaging in warfare.

The global bankers financed most of the major powers involved in World War 1; the global bankers financed the Bolshevik revolution because the Czar wouldn't allow a central bank in Russia; the global bankers financed all the major powers involved in World War 2; the global bankers financed Mao Tse Tung's communist takeover of China at the end of WW2.

Communism was created by the global bankers because capitalism had been too successful. Democracy and capitalism were set to sweep over the world at the end of WW2, and that might have meant the end of the warfare that had been so lucrative to the global banking cartel. So the globalists had to create a credible enemy for capitalism. They put Mao into power and then for the next 50 years made money off the Cold War arms race between communism and capitalism.

And now we have the 'war on terrorism'. A 'perpetual war'. September 11 wasn't the result of a thousand missed clues, folks. It was allowed to happen by people within the U.S. intelligence community. That community is controlled by the Executive Branch, and the Executive Branch is controlled by the global banking cartel...the same cartel which is financing the sale of arms to the 'terrorist' nations as I type.

On September 11,our own puppet government held the NORAD interceptor jets on the ground for 75 minutes so FOUR hijacked airliners could reach their targets. This was done so a new 'war' could be launched and financed by the global banking cartel. Banking and governmental interests conspired to let the zealots reach their targets. Five of the hijackers were pulled aside for random checks on Sept. 11, yet their names had 'mysteriously' disappeared from the FBI database when airport security personnel ran the checks. Known associates of bin Laden in the country on violated visas, and their names weren't in the database that day.

And if you don't want to take my word for all this -- that economic events on this scale are planned by the global monied interests well ahead of time -- read what Joseph Stiglitz has to say about it. He won the Nobel Prize for Economics when he was the Chief Economist of the World Bank. Then he said he didn't want to help the World Bank drive countries to bankruptcy anymore, and he was fired. Read the article at the URL below and decide if you still believe in the 'accidental' view of history:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=78&row=1

"...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

"...The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them (the masses) a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies, but would be ashamed to tell big lies." -- Adolph Hitler

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:12 AM

Oh, and thanks for the advice, Little Hawk. Yeah, everyone should diversify and be prepared, so I am as much as possible. But you reach a point where you realize there's nowhere to run, and besides, why should I let anyone run me out of my home? I still believe this tyrannical and bloody takeover of the U.S. can be stopped if the criminals are exposed to the light of day, but if not, if the fighting starts, I hope I'm at ground zero. I still feel enormous shame for my state for allowing the federal government to murder babies at Waco. I mean, Texas is supposed to be some kind of symbol of wild west independence, and we let the world government get away with burning a church in our heartland. And to them, to the Feds, it was just a symbolic act. Nothing more. They wanted to show the nation that even in the state with a reputation for independence, the feds rule. They did the same with Randy Weaver...murdered his wife and child when all the family wanted to do was live in isolation. The symbolic message there was, 'you can't get away even in the wilderness'. Then Waco, with it's message of not being able to resist in groups. Then New York, which sent hundreds of symbolic messages...people from a hundred nations died there. Then they bombed Bali, so they showed the world you can't even escape to paradise.

Gold is a good idea, but I fear the next totalitarian step will apply a death penalty to the ownership of gold. I mean, if they disarm us completely, how can we have any say over the new rules? So I expect to exit before that disarmament phase is over. And that's fine with me. I don't want to see the babies slaughtered. Folks...some of you are going to see your babies skinned alive. You have no idea how evil the people seeking dominance over you are. The Army plan for relocating us to concentration camps calls for splitting families up as step # 1, so you won't feel any alliegance to the strangers you are huddled with, but some of those mercenaries they bring in are going to have their fun before you even get on the trucks to the camps. All the paperwork is in place. Our troops are being shipped overseas so they can kill strangers, and foreign troops are being brought here so they can kill us. Buy guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:15 PM

That's it! Resist! Start you own Tofu-Commune. I'm sure there are still lots of unburnt pistol-packin' zombies out there willing to let you have sex with their pre=pubescent daughters in exchange for enlightenment.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:31 PM

David Koresh was within arm's length of the Federal Marshalls with the arrest warrant the day the seige began. But they didn't arrest him. They were ordered to let him return to the compound and then create an 'incident'. They did that, alright. Forensic evidence shows shaped C4 charges were placed on top of the basement where the children were huddled. People running away from the fire with their arms in the air were shot down.

You may not approve of Koresh, but what if the govt. suddenly disapproved of some organization YOU belong to? Would you support them burning your house to it's foundation just because ignorance was suddenly made illegal?

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:38 PM

I'm sure I'll agree with you as soon as I smoke four ounces of methamphetamine and drop forty hits of acid.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM

Here we go again, GUEST. You remind me a little of Lyndon LaRouche in that you go about merrily making sense and than you just have to drop the "buy guns" thing in at the end, which to me, discredits the good work you did in explaining your position.

Buying guns is the best way to getting lots of folks shot up. Right now, there are enough privately owned guns for every man, woman and child. Buying more isn't going to do anything except make those arms manufacturer's that you talk about more money.

Armed revolution against a military that possesses such tremendous fire power is suicide. You can play6 it out a hundred different ways but in the end, you loose a hundred different ways. But bottom line, you loose.

The only way to beat these guys is with non-violence, with determination, with intellect, with teaching, with caring, with demonstating an alternative to shoot-your-advesary-business-as-usual appraoch to conflict resolution. The governemnt is not as well prepared for this type of assault. But they certainly know what to do with folks who point guns at 'em. They've got lots of experience there.

BTW, your state also has no qualms about rounding up minorities, beating confessions out of them for crimes they didn't do, appointing crappy lawyers to defend them and then strap 'em down and murder them. But you know that all ready.

Peace thru Non-Violent Resistence

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

I'd say Doug's right on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: allanwill
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:24 PM

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE SOMEDAY by Kasey Chambers

This is the writters own interpretation this should only be used for research,
scolarship or study
.
Capo 3rd fret
First Chorus acapella

G                         D   
We're all gonna die someday lord
       C                G
We're all gonna die someday
      G                         C
Mama's on pills daddy's over the hill
       D                  G
But we're all gonna die someday

       G                     D
Well it hurts down here on earth lord
       C               G
It hurts down here on earth
       G                         C
It hurts down here 'cos we're running out of beer
       D                  G
But we're all gonna die someday

Chorus
Instrumental same as verse..

Well all of my friends are stoned lord
All of my friends are stoned
Janie got stoned 'cos she couldn't get boned
But we're all gonna die someday

Well they can all kiss my ass lord
They can all kiss my ass
If they wanna kiss my ass well they better do it fast
'Cos we're all gonna die someday

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:41 PM

leprechaun - What is all this drug and tofu stuff you're talking? Really... GUEST doesn't sound at all like a tofu-eater to me, and I've been famous ever since the 60's for NOT taking drugs, while all the other long-haired kids I knew did. I've never been into drugs. What I was mostly into was books and music. I also never smoked and barely drank enough to affect a churchmouse. I was also always strongly inclined to obey civil laws and not be a burden to society. I have a good friend who is a retired RCMP officer. Excellent man. We disagree on political philosophy (he's more to the right than me), but we agree on normal human morality to a "T". I avoid drug users, because they are mostly rather undependable people in a self-induced state of confusion.

Your prejudices are showing through, leprechaun. I am not the figure of your fantasy. Maybe GUEST isn't either.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:43 PM

Just ignore GUEST and he/she will go away. Hopefully.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:55 PM

I prefer toffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 02:55 PM

So what made you this way? Are you, perhaps, a skateboarder?

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 06:19 PM

Ha! Ha! Glad to see your sense of humor is intact, leprechaun!

Well, I lived for ten years in New York State (upstate, small town New York State) as a Canadian citizen, from an essentially far more liberal society (in Canada) than the one I found myself in there. People were exceedingly bigoted and prejudiced, I found, not to mention downright ignorant of anything outside the borders of small-town USA. It was hell being in school there and being "different". I grew to hate their right-wing politics, their belief that they were living in "the greatest society on Earth" (desperately untrue!), their astounding lack of empathy for the Vietnamese people whose nation was being devastated by their government's insane foreign policy, their arrogance and sense of superiority, their blindness, and their self-absorption.

I became very radicalized by the experience, and I returned to Canada in 1969, to a society that was the antithesis of theirs, psychologically speaking, to cities that were a paradise compared to the cultural and social wasteland of places like Syracuse or Buffalo, to streets that were safe and lively at night (unlike Syracuse), to a place where I could talk casually to a black person on the street just like I would to anyone else, to a place where cops were trim, honest, and helpful...man, what a contrast!

I saw the face of the Big Lie in America, leprechaun, the face of decadence, moral decay, and oppression, and I have never forgotten it. How would someone who appreciates intellectual freedom and tolerance have felt having spent some time as a foreign visitor in Nazi Germany between, say, 1933 and 1937? Think about it. It was a bit like that. I've never lived in a place so obsessed with its past and present history of warfare, its flag, its military prowess, and its knee-jerk patriotism as the USA. I'm sure there are other such places, but I haven't witnessed them firsthand. None of them is as powerful or dangerous as the USA either.

If you've spent your life living in the USA, I don't expect you to really get what I'm saying here. It won't seem real to you. That's understandable. Your patriotism is also understandable.

But the rest of the World outside the USA gets exactly what I'm saying. The USA is the most feared country on the face of the Earth. That is not because Americans are bad people (they're not!), but it's because they are under a bad, megalomaniac military-industrial system, and it's getting worse by the year.

I have lived a pretty disciplined and sensible life, on the whole. If everyone out there was like me, I would have nothing to worry about whatsoever in this life, and I wouldn't need a lock on my door, and I would fear no violence from any quarter.

(On the other hand, it would make for a dull world, I suppose!) :-)

I ask your pardon in advance for anything I've said above that may have offended you, but that's the best way I can explain it.

By the way, I saw the hypocrisy, laziness, and self-indulgence in the hippies and leftist kids generally in the late 60's too. It was pretty lamentable in a lot of cases. I'm afraid there are a lot of bottom feeders out there, and they jump on the first convenient bandwagon that attracts them...whether it be right-wing American fundamentalism, military-patriotic fervor, or left-wing radical dissent. Judge them by their personal conduct, not their political rhetoric.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:10 PM

Amen, Little Hawk.

I guess I better represent thre tofu eatin', vegetarian, hippie that you have tried so hard to generalize, leprechaun. Yeayh, I smokes dope and played in a rock 'n roll band and did yoga and meditation. I also did anti-war organizing and came from a family that was socially conscious. Yep, a real poster boy fir ya, fir sure.

But, I piad my way to two college degrees while working and going to school and have worked ever since, paying taxes and being a good citizen.

And if I want to take a toke now and then, that's me business. I'm not hanging around the school where your kids ot grandkids attend trying to sell pot to them. Might of fact, I don't sell pot. I grow my own. Different strokes fir different folks, my friend, but I haven't missed a day of work for any reason in pushing 25 years. And I haven't missed a quarterly payment to the IRS either...

Ya gotta be real careful when ya' go over-generalizing about folks because gues what? All folks are different. No two the same...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 07:49 PM

I must take exception to your "no two the same" theory. Aren't all those small town New Yorkers all the same? What about business exectives? All the same, right? Capitalists? All the same. Republicans? All the same. Military people? All the same. Loggers? All the same. Cops? All the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 11:03 PM

Not at all. The cops around here are mostly fine, just the odd one here and there with a bad attitude.

When one generalizes, one is simply giving an average forecast for an area, like the weather report. "Scattered showers and overcast skies over most of Simcoe County today"... but hey, I just saw a patch of sunshine.

And going by my technical job description (small business owner) I AM a capitalist, functionally speaking...but I'm a socialist, philosophically speaking...but I actually believe the best system is a 50/50 mixture of the two. And it depends on where, when, and among which people, and how it's handled at the top.

Republicans? Well, I like Doug R. :-)

Military people? Have been one myself in several lifetimes. Prefer regular soldiers to top brass, generally speaking, but it depends on the individuals, of course.

Loggers? No strong opinion about loggers at all.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:07 AM

Well, leprechaun, you almost had me on that all "Republicans" being the same. Yeah, Iz been guilty of lumpin' them with the Dems as being Repubocrats as a matter of general discussion but I know that when taken individually, each one is different.

I mean, take Dougie fir example.... Know what I mean?

Jus funnin', Doug...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:18 AM

well, well, well...I see our GUEST terrorist is back on another thread to harangue us with the tedious dogmatic sermonizing once again. how edifying, thanks so kindly for raising me up out of my ignorance...keep it up. I am truly grateful...hg

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

OK. Back to Civics class:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...

...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security...

That is from the founding document of the United States. Ever since that was written (The Declaration of Independence, in case you don't recognize it), people have died defending the principles it outlines. The Constitution put teeth into it, and now those teeth are being pulled. And according to all the oaths I've taken in my life as an American to the Constitution, I MUST defend it. It is my DUTY.

Do any of you know what the Fourth Amendment is? Can you recite it or paraphrase it? Well, I have family members who died in foreign wars so I'd have the right to be secure in my home, as outlined in the Fourth Amendment. If they came back now and saw me doing NOTHING to save the Constitution, then they would have died in vain. And most of you could say the same of yourself and of your families. The free nations of the world are being crushed. Constitutions and civil liberties are being extinguished while the governments of those counties are being armed in order to enforce the oppressions. And if you lose your freedom, you won't get it back.

It is now possible, in America, because of new legislation and Executive Orders, to arrest you for a misdemeanor, hold you indefinitely without access to a lawyer, drug you anyway the authorities want, try you in secret, execute you, and never have to make anyone aware of what happened to you. In short, to 'disappear' you. That's not the country the people in MY family fought for. And if you don't do something SOON to stop this slide to complete tyranny, you'll be experiencing things like this...

"...And in Eugene, Ore., neighbors are hopping mad at Eugene police after an October drug raid turned their sleepy neighborhood into a war zone. According to the DRCNet, the cops came to the 'hood to serve a warrant on an alleged pot grower -- using an armored personnel carrier and 45 SWAT officers. Officers lobbed flash-bang grenades, kicked in doors, and handcuffed four people -- including two naked women, one of whom had her head covered by the cops with a black bag until she "agreed to cooperate" -- before discovering there was no pot to seize. Area residents have filed complaints with the Eugene Police Commission. The DRCNet reports that EPD Capt. Steve Swenson says the officers were within policy and that they "rely on the element of surprise and speed" and an "overwhelming display of force" to get the job done. But not, apparently, on ensuring they have the correct target."

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2002-12-20/pols_feature7.html

See, first the Bush Family killed 3 million Central Americans in order to establish their Cocaine Cartel, then they launched a 'war on drugs' so the Feds could be funded to fight the drugs they were bringing in, and now they're linking drugs to guns and SUVs. So you can see where this is all going. Cops have been trained to over-react to drugs, and now that mentality is being encouraged in other areas. Your family members who died fighting for America would kick your ass if they saw you doing nothing to stop the takeover of America by these gangsters.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 02:22 PM

And you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:38 AM

If "Cops have been trained to overreact to drugs," what do you think their response should be? Drugs like cocaine and heroin have been steadily degrading the quality of life of tens of millions in this country alone. Even relatively mild recreational drugs like tobacco and marijuana are still resonsible for incredible loss of life. While the use of a SWAT car was excessive in this case, many dealers do carry enough firepower to inflict many casualties if insufficient force is used.

And what's this about the free nations of the world being crushed? I haven't heard anyone threatening Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 12:55 AM

Guest, as a former law man, I can recite the 4th amendment without looking it up. It was a requirement before I could graduate the Treasury dept. school of law enforcement and criminal investigation.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
Papers and effects against unreasonable search and siezure
Shall not be violated, And no warrant shall issue except upon
probable cause, stating in particular the place to be searched
and the persons or things to be siezed.

The lawmen used to have "reason to believe" which gave them much more leeway, but, Mapp v Ohio put a stop to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 02:06 AM

Doug and McGrath agree! So do I, except, I would say the GUEST is a "troll" rather than a "flamer." "Turkey" is also a good word. So is "pain in the butt." Query, is this anonymous "GUEST" the same "turnip" that Catspaw outed in that other thread? Sounds a lot like him.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 03:02 AM

Guest, I think you have a lot of valid points and interesting reading.As a matter of fact I am going to look up Joseph Stiglitz and read more about him and world banks. Thanks.
Bobert- I consider myself a peaceful person. I live in the country, I mind my own business, I'm not a trouble-maker or law breaker, but if it came down to my freedoms being taken, I believe I would bring out the guns also.I would rather die on my land fighting for my rights than be hauled away to one of those camps, if you know what I mean.
People fear the unknown and I truly have to say that I believe the US gov. has a lot of un-knowns going on. So I choose to hear different sides of the story and then I choose to believe or not.
I do not choose to put people down for their opinions.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 10:56 AM

I'm getting old. One line I left out.
..probable cause, SUPPORTED BY OATH OR AFFIRMATION...

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 11:17 AM

Rustic Rebel:

I'm not sure what it is that I have said that brought such a indignant response.

Please clarify.

Peace back atcha...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:11 PM

Bobert- I didn't mean to come off that way to you, I was just saying what I might do if threatened. Why I pin-pointed you was because of the way you started off a post up there==
Here we go again, GUEST. You remind me a little of Lyndon LaRouche in that you go about merrily making sense and than you just have to drop the "buy guns" thing in at the end, which to me, discredits the good work you did in explaining your position
I do also respect what you said in that post, I just thought I would add my opinion to it. Friends?
I think where it seemed I did get a bit indignant was my last statement-I do not choose to put people down for their opinions- But that wasn't directed at you Bobert, just as a general statement about how all these threads get turned around to make 'Guest " the badman, and it just gets a little tiresome at times.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:30 PM

That's cool, Rustic. I like GUEST and we just have this little difference of opinion on how best to defend our rights. Hey, I'm a gun owner and know how to use 'em and also live in an area where everyone else has a gun and there is almost no crime. And no cops, either. And, like I've pointed out in the past, I believe in self defense but only with the minumin force needed. Guns usually ain't that.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 05:34 PM

Lurker & kendall...yes, drugs are draining America. And no sane person can hate cops...not good cops. But entire police departments are now being brainwashed by FEMA training, and the result is that incident in Eugene, Ore. As far as drugs, legalize pot, tax and regulate it, quit putting kids on pharmaceuticals at school, and try and execute the dealers of opiates. And I mean the bigwigs like the Bushes. They created the Crack/Cocaine problem. The black leaders have been saying that for years. The cocaine is imported by the CIA, cooked into cheap crack and then distributed by 'rival' gangs. Cryps and Bloods are just like Dems and Reps...two rivals always pretending to be at odds but both benefitting from the same system. Cut the head off the CIA opiate-distribution system. And quit raiding naked women with 45-man SWAT teams. If we don't do that, the future is easily predictable. Commercials on TV now equate drugs with terrorism, SUVs and guns. Cops were given INCENTIVE to focus on drugs...they get 10% of the assets seized in 'drug-related' cases, so hell yes they're going to focus on those cases. That's how they try to seize ranches around here...BS 'throwdowns' of drugs in otherwise ordinary police matters. Happens when someone has money in the bank or is a big land-owner. So get rid of the incentive to focus on drugs, cut the head off the importation business and that problem is GONE. Problem is, police depts. LIKE the Federal money connected to the 'war on drugs', even though that war is phony and government-created, just like the 'war on terrorism'. And too many highly-placed people in South, Central and North America have been sucked into the huge profits of the drug trade. And they run governments which Bush Sr. is currently arming to the teeth, so they can hold onto their bit of the drug assembly line.

Rebel...Yeah, the Stiglitz stuff is interesting. A lot of it is over my head, but I've learned a lot from reading about him. Basically, there are 66 nations in the world that are independent. They have no central bank connected to the World Bank. These are the 66 nations GWBush has identified as 'rogue nations'. He calls them 'terrorist-sponsoring nations', etc. They are marked for elimination by the World Bank. The U.S. will be the hammer. Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Somalia, Lybia, etc. The problem the bankers have with these countries is that they can't loan them money at back-breaking interest, so the U.S. will reduce them to rubble (like we did Yugoslavia), then the U.N. will move in and claim all the natural resources before starting with their 'humanitarian' efforts. Gansterism as big as it gets. And Stiglitz outlines the METHOD the IMF/World Bank uses to get their hooks into a country, and what comes after. They bribe key officials (GWBush made the kind of 'cold calls' sales people do...did that when he was in his daddy's white house...got all the water resources of Argentina signed over to 'Kenny Boy' of Enron, for one thing, and now Buenos Aires has no water). So the World Bank gives the Minister of Water in some country a billion dollars, and that minister doesn't care about anything else after that...his country's water is signed over as collateral to the Bank. And the system Stiglitz outlines is always the same...when the loan can't be paid off...re-finance it...increase the interest and yearly payments...again and again. Then, when the yearly payment is impossible to meet and the country defaults, the World Bank claims the water and oil and uranium, etc. And the banks are closed and people lose their life savings. It's a six-step plan that works the same in every country, down to the planned riots when the banks close. And it's coming here. I'm glad you're looking at that, because THAT is the root of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 08:13 PM

Had a glitch posting earlier, Bobert. It didn't register. But I, too, believe guns shouldn't be used. They should be a last resort only. But there WILL be another Columbine...and the government is taking steps to make sure the next one will be even worse. All over the country they're nstalling panic buttons that will lock steel doors when the next school shooting starts. Hundreds or thousands of kids locked INSIDE behind steel doors. 'Lock down' is or soon will be standard operating procedure when shooting breaks out in a school.

So after the next horrific event (where they'll have an even bigger body count to show the public), congress will pass knee-jerk legislation. It will be unconstitutional, but before it can be challenged in court, the few remaining gun dealers will be driven out of business. So that's why I encourage people to buy guns now. You buy all other types of insurance, but what kind can you buy to protect you from a drug-crazed murderer walking through the front door of your house intent on killing you?

Someday we won't be able to buy guns, so we need to buy them now. Besides, it sends a WONDERFUL message to the puppets in Washington who want to destroy the Bill of Rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 08:51 PM

Guest terrorist is at it again. I resent this paranoid crap being spewed all over the forum. I think Max should put a stop to it!

Subject: RE: BS: Democrat = Republican
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 03 - 10:27 PM

Paranoid crap? Check the sources. Joseph Stiglitz was the Chief Economist of the IMF World Bank. He won the NOBEL PRIZE FOR ECONOMICS. This is what HE says is going on in the world. I'm not paranoid about it. I accept it (reluctantly) and try to bring about change by making others aware of it.

Spewed all over the forum? I limit it to the BS section and put a thread title of a political nature in the subject line, so you don't have to click on it if you don't want to. And if you should run across one of my posts (or someone else's you don't like), you can always tear your eyes away, you know.

America is like a room in a termite-infested house. Looks fine, but you can poke your finger through the walls. We're still told we have all our freedoms and rights, but try telling that to the folks in the story above...the ones from Eugene, Oregon. Fearful people like you are willing to trade your liberties for security, but when you do that YOU GET HANDCUFFED NAKED AND HAVE A HOOD PUT OVER YOUR HEAD. So if you support suppression of free speech, move to China where they are currently BRANDING their citizens with graphite tattoos to better keep track of them and keep them in line. Sounds like your kind of place, harpy.