BS: In support of our servicemen and women..

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:10 PM

Go away, malignant, narcissistic, facist GUEST. I don't want you around here anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:14 PM

Must be doing my job, and hitting the mark.   The pro-war side is showing their true colors, and getting vicious.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:22 PM

FYI, Norton1. Many peace activists are working here in support of the human shields in Iraq, as we have done for them in the West Bank, during the 90s in Iraq over the sanctions, as we did during the Central America wars with Witness for Peace, Peace Brigades, etc.

Anti-war activists in harms way in the Middle East need a supportive infra-structure back home to keep their protests going.

That simple, really. I work here supporting them there.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: outfidel
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:39 PM

I'm against the invasion (until it can be proven necessary), but my prayers are still with our men & women in uniform. Tennyson said "Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die." That's a fact of life in the military. Let's hope and pray our leaders direct our young men & women with wisdom.

Fine sentiments, Beccy.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:47 PM

Sorry, I just zoned out after about 20 of these relatively self indulgent posts...

Blessings and angelic interference to all the enlisted soldiers on all sides of this violence... Only the war mongers deserve my curses, and yes, that does include Saddam... who is just about one of the worst sick MFs ever, IMO.

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 02:54 PM

I ask that everyone be given whatever help they need in order to do whatever is to the highest good of all concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:01 PM

Well, I have allready offered up my list of folks who need our prayers which is just about everybody that I can think of. Then remembered that my pal, Little Hawk, who is away getting his spiritual self tuned up, and well I reckon I ought to cover for him.

The effects of war are not confined to just human beings. The earth and all of it's inhabitants are adversly affected so I believe that God would like to hear a few prayers for those other living things with which we share this earth.

And well, whhile we're at it. Our water will suffer. Our soils will suffer and ,yes, Little Hawk's rocks (don't go there...) will all suffer as well.

Just food for prayer.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:03 PM

So how many here will support and pray for the peace activists going into Iraq, then? I see a lot of fine talk, but nobody walking the peace walk. It is REAL easy to sit here among your friends and make sounds about peace, love, prayers, and world understanding.

Why do people here feel they can't even come out among their like-minded peace loving friends, and say "I will support these peace activists putting their lives on the line for the cause of peace, in MY name for the highest good of everyone involved"?

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:16 PM

In MY name, ANON.GUEST? Think you for providing some humor to what is otherwise a depressing subject.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:28 PM

Yeah, in YOUR name. And mine. And the Iraqi's. Even in Saddam Hussein's name.

What is funny about people putting their lives on the line, just like our servicemen and women are going to do, to keep people from being slaughtered, artbrooks? Where is the humor in that?

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:31 PM

Sorry GUEST. Everyone gets my prayers (and everything). Even the water, soil, and rocks that Bobert mentions. I don't know what is to the highest good of all concerned. I'm not that omniscient. So the best I can do is to ask for the highest good of all concerned, whatever that may be.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: outfidel
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:35 PM

> Why do people here feel they can't even come out among their like
> minded peace loving friends, and say "I will support these peace
> activists putting their lives on the line for the cause of peace,
> in MY name for the highest good of everyone involved"?

First, I'd love to see you come out in YOUR name. But you remain anonymous. What gives?

Second, I have a hard time supporting groups who brand America "terrorists" while supporting a nut like Hussein, and who generally take a "hate America first" approach to world affairs. For reasons that include a combination of psychological and ideological phenomena and factors, the America-haters pathologically and reflexively hate and rabidly oppose anything and everything "American", from the U.S. Constitution, to "capitalism", to American cars (especially SUVs). American cheese makes them sick. Of course, they do not publicly state all of that, but express their hate through numerous surrogate issues and causes to which they attach themselves, issues and causes that, not coincidentally, always, without exception, vilify America. The "hate America first" crowd is as mindless and irritating as Pat Buchanan and the America-first-ers.

So yes, I'll say a prayer that those who choose to become human shields don't get in harms way -- because, God willing, there won't be a need for harm -- but I won't be marching in their parades any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Pseudolus
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 03:44 PM

If you don't know what the humorous part of an Anonymous guest talking about people fighting "in MY name", I'm not gonna tell you. This is sad....ya can't start a thread about how you feel without it being judged. Beccy started a thread where people could come and read and take heart caring about loved ones and in typical Mudcat fashion, it has turned into a fight....Nice try Beccy, I will continue to stay tuned to this one despite those whose only goal in life is to disrupt.

My prayers go out as well......

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: DougR
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:41 PM

Someone (a guest probably) suggested that those who oppose the Bush administration's approach to solving the Iraq problem offer themselves as human shields. Though I may not agree with their POV I do know one thing: they are too smart to do that. I pray that the volunteer human shields have enough sense to find a very deep hole and a very effective flak jacket.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:16 PM

My prayers, along with those of others, go with 'our' boys and girls and include 'their' boys and girls (and aged men and women and toddlers and angry little 10-year-olds).

harpgirl says: Go away, malignant, narcissistic, facist GUEST. I don't want you around here anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and the malignant, narcissistic, fascist guest responds:

Must be doing my job, and hitting the mark.   The pro-war side )(emphasis Eb) is showing their true colors, and getting vicious.

Knowing that I'm not on any pro-war side, I second harpgirl's dictum: Go away, malignant, narcissistic, facist GUEST. I don't want you around here anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Guest WITHOUT A NAME, I suspect you are referring to Jesus' name when you say "MY" name but it is really quite funny that it can be taken as referring to YOU:
Why do people here feel they can't even come out among their like-minded peace loving friends, and say "I will support these peace activists putting their lives on the line for the cause of peace, in MY name for the highest good of everyone involved"?



For reasons that include a combination of psychological and ideological phenomena and factors, the America-haters pathologically and reflexively hate and rabidly oppose anything and everything "American", from the U.S. Constitution, to "capitalism", to American cars (especially SUVs). American cheese makes them sick. Of course, they do not publicly state all of that, but express their hate through numerous surrogate issues and causes to which they attach themselves, issues and causes that, not coincidentally, always, without exception, vilify America. The "hate America first" crowd is as mindless and irritating as Pat Buchanan and the America-first-ers.

Outfidel: I understand your take on it but I believe you are very much mistaken; I believe those of us who deplore our country's actions and savagely distrust its current government love our country every bit as much as you do. We want to see our country do well- and do GOOD besides- ; we want STATESMEN/STATESWOMEN who have a grasp of the consequences of actions, we want people in office who are not driven by "arrogance and dimwitted machismo". (Joe Klein)

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: mg
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:24 PM

I don't want anyone to suffer one speck. They will if we go and they will if we don't go. Pick your poison. I pray for the human shields and for the enemy soldiers who have no say in the matter and all the civilians, families, etc. I wish I was naive enough to see an easy solution but I don't. We are damned one way if we do and another if we don't. mg

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:35 PM

All of you angry folks, wake up and deal with your anger in a positive way. We get into these situations because of un dealt with anger.

As for me, I'm with Beccy and I'll be prayin' 'til I wear my hip replacement out from getting up from my knees! Ha! Ha!

All of you angry folks might benefit from a little humor and joke telling, it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 01:33 AM

In a positive way, Walking Eagle? Surely you jest! Most of these folks wouldn't be able to view a subject that had anything to do with the U. S. government in a positive way if it jumped up and bit them in the ...oh you know where.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Ireland
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:40 PM

Beccy has my total support in asking for support of the service women and men, as these people are putting their lives on the line no matter what others think.

One point though guest Matriot or whoever, if Bush and Blair back down and America gets hit by Iraq, will you be among those blaming Bush and saying it was his fault for listening to the anti war protesters? When Saddam used children, mothers and fathers as human shields, what worth would he put on the life of,well meaning,human shields in Iraq?

We all have to bear in mind that armed forces sign up voluntarily, they cannot be criticised for show a little exuberance in wanting to do the job they trained for. That is not to say all in the arm services want to kill people,but they have to do their job sometime.

What use would the armed forces be if they could vote on which war to fight in? Think of it, to make an informed decision all facts would have to be presented, what would the ramifications of that be?

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 12:29 PM

I don't normally go in for personal invective, but Claymore, you're one sick sonofabitch.

With all your pornographic invocations of war, I wonder what you really did in Vietnam - if indeed you ever were there. You sound more like some inadequate fantasiser who can get off on the obscenity of war precisely because he has never experienced it.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST,Norton1
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 01:09 PM

"Turkey last week deported Ken Nichols, a former U.S. marine who helped organize the "human shields" campaign, after he tried to enter the country using documents describing himself as a "citizen of the world.""

This individual has not been able to prove he was in the Marines nor that he served in the Gulf War. The tattoo on his eye is the mark of a White Supremacist in prison. I do not believe him brave - but he can do what he wants.

And GUEST - you do a lot of personl invectives. Claymore is who he says he is. He and I have talked before. So you can apologize for that one. Your tough talk is no different from the present administrations talk regarding Iraq, only more hostile and less factual, so unless you have some personal experience to draw on I'd suggest you do a bit of research prior to making your comments.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Beccy
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 02:48 PM

I had to bring this thread back up because I have a personal update to make. My cousin, serving with the Army's 3rd I.D., which most of you may have heard of at this point, was injured during the course of duty. About two weeks ago now, he was driving a humvee that was struck by an RPG. He was seriously hurt in his right leg, but is expected to regain full use of the leg. He is in major pain right now, but is back at Ft. Hood following evaluation in Germany where they said he was not capable of going back on duty before his division is sent home. His wife, two kids and the rest of our family is glad to have him back home- alive!

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 03:01 PM

Best of luck to him, Beccy.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM

Thanks for the update, Beccy. I've been wondering about folks who posted to this thread and had relatives over there, esp. Steve's daughter. I emailed him the other day, but haven't received a reply, yet.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 09:04 PM

Well this is interesting!

Does God look after the "loved ones" in priority order, according to how many incoming prayers he logs for each? Do prayers score higher where they are from friends and relatives than when they are offered up by people who don't know from Adam the people they're praying for? Are the prayers judged on content at all, or is it an entirely quantitative process?

If God does indeed intervene in this way, then the whole process is vomit-inducing. What about the poor sod sent into action, Christian to his fingernails (or Hindu, or Buddhist or whatever it takes) but whose friends and entire family have renounced their faiths and enter no prayers at all?

It might be worth some university looking at coalition casualties and fatalities and comparing the prayers offered up for them with the prayers offered for those who came through unscathed. There could be lessons to be drawn.

Meanwhile Claymore can rejoice that US troops are still getting dropped (or was it only dead ragheads that got him excited?). Only a trickle, but we're talking about a nation that based its foreign policy for several years on the loss of a mere 18 troops!

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:38 AM

Good news Beccy, I am sure that it must have been a very tough time for you and your family. Very glad to hear that he is now home and that the prognosis is that he will make a full recovery.

Best wishes to you all.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:52 AM

Thanks for the chuckle Fionn, I couldn't agree more.

I'm the loathed guest (not the DG) with 5 family and friends over there, though only one actually landed in Iraq. Hopefully, he'll be coming home in September now--so long as the brass doesn't betray the troops again and hold them longer. We've had one come home so far with a nasty case of hepatitis. Other three are still scattered around the Gulf.

I'm so glad Beccy refreshed this thread. It's great to see the hypocrisy exposed again after the fact.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 01:09 PM

A simple request...

When Johnny comes marching home again don't stop the prayers and support. The people (the volunteers) of the military have had to struggle in the performance of their duties, too long the victims of the politicians on both sides of the aisles who find them indispensible when their is a percieved threat and all too disposable when victory or loss has occured.

Whether you believe in "America's Finest" (or Britain's, Australia's, etc.) there shold be no reason for the people defending your country and way of life to end up living in impoverished conditions and getting the shaft after retirement.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 01:32 PM

Prayers for the Peaceful Warriors thread

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:10 PM

You don`t mind if I pray for the thousands of Iraqi families slaughtered in this needless war. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:24 PM

No, and I thank you for doing it.

I find it quite odd that in a forum where so many regulars fall all over one another claiming to be for peace, opposed to the war on Iraq, the war on terror, the occupation of Palestine by Israel, or in favor of multilateral solutions and international understanding--that not one poster is willing to say they will pray for peace activists or the families of peace activists. Not one poster here has stood up and said they will pray for the peace activists who worked so hard to prevent this war, and who remain vigilant regarding human rights, international law, and the many other aspects relevant to the Anglo American occupation of Iraq. Not one.

That smacks of pretty selective piety to me.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 03:40 PM

To "pray", of course, requires a positive belief in an activist diety or dieties. Personally I beieve I shall continue to feel regret for all of those killed and injured on both sides and disgust toward those who started this unnecessary war.

Subject: Lyr Add: WAR (Dougie Maclean)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 05:05 PM

Here is my offering--a song as a prayer. This one was written for the first Gulf War, and I've always interpreted it as a song lamenting the ways we damage our troops by sending them out to kill other human beings they have no personal quarrel with...

WAR by Dougie Maclean

Our voice made silent
Our hands made still
But deep and violent wait the ones who
wait to kill
The desert's burning, their reasons pale
For there's no returning
with some golden holy grail

What have they done?
What have they done?
The blood will run to everyone
Oh what have they done?

Is it for freedom? Or is it for truth
That father's fall and all the young
men trade their youth?
Or are they moved by deception's hand
That rank and reckless scatters death
across the sand?

What have they done?
What have they done?
The blood will run to everyone
Oh what have they done?

Is it for freedom? Or is it for truth
That fathers fall and all those young
men trade their youth?
And the deserts burning, their faces pale
For there's no returning
with some golden holy grail

What have they done?
What have they done?
The blood will run to everyone
Oh what have they done?

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 06:35 PM

Fionn...you are sick. Please get professional help before you hurt yourself or, even worse, hurt someone else. These same sentiments apply to anyone who would sabatoge a serious topic like this. There are at least fifty other threads full of hate to occupy your time.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Gareth
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:24 PM

Dear Guest, You must remember that Fionn, on the evidence of past posts is an Ulster based journalist, suffering from Gluacoma. (SP)

Trat his moronic and hate filled posts as those of a sick person who uses The 'Cat as a means of escapism. He needs our prayers rather than our criticism.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:52 PM

Yes, my thoughts go out to those who are in the war, but so do they go out to ALL of life on this planet as we are all related.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:24 PM

Gareth:

Thanks for a word to the wise. You and I and most sane people realize that the hateful rant on Mudcat is coming from fewer two dozen sick creeps. I suspect that most of them have no connection to music, the reason this forum was started.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:59 PM

Still not a single Mudcatter with the guts, the courage, or the gumption to say they would actually pray for peace activists.

Now that is sick.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 02:33 AM

You are all using faith. Fionn, angry or not, is using logic.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:03 AM

I think more amused than angry, pdc, at least as far as the faith stuff goes. Not so amused that "our servicemen and women," as the thread title has it, have just killed another five Iraqi civilians. With a bit more support, and perhaps a few more prayers, that could have been ten!

(Right about glaucoma, Gareth - you must have waded through scores of posts to unearth that! - but wrong about Ulster. Keep reading....)

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 12:06 PM

Shows what a great guy Gareth is, using a poster's glaucoma against them in an Internet forum discussing politics.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 01:24 PM

Please let us offer up our prayers for the five Iraqi people murdered yesterday by US troops. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 03:59 PM

As a peace activist, I don't judge first, then pray. Everyone, soldiers on both sides, civilians, the political and military leaders--all are included in our prayers, not just those on "our side" or those we judge as being worthy of our prayers.

I'm glad you mention the Iraqi civilians, ard mhacha. There is an interesting Washington Post article today here:

US Aggressive Against Iraqis

It talks about how much more repressive our troops become as they come under more and more attacks, creating a vicious cycle of retribution without much recrimination--until the shooting stops, and everyone is left with what they did and didn't do to or for their fellow humans.

Killing and terrorizing other human beings damages a person, often beyond repair and any reasonable expectation of recovery, much less redemption.

Like Dougie's song says:

"the blood will run to everyone
oh, what have they done"

That of course includes the soldiers who are doing the killing.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Gareth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:57 PM

No Fionn - I don't waste my time on these matter, some of the more assinine posta stick in my mind - Particullaly your brand of personal nastyness.

And Guest, if you are offended my appologies.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 04:58 PM

Having the experience of living under an army of occupation gives me an insight into how those Iraqi people feel.
You are terrorised on a daily basis by arrogant thugs armed to the teeth, there is no one to turn to, the troops have carte blanche to do whatever they want, your only means of justice is to hit back at the occupiers, by any means.
The deaths of Saddam`s sons instead of easing the situation will only lead to more hatred,there is a long hard road ahead for the invaders.Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Gareth
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 07:09 PM

Gee Ard Mhacha, I am horrified to hear that. I thought you lived in Britain - Where do you live ?

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 08:27 PM

And this is the man that cut veteran benefits by 50%
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushburstold.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:09 PM

Donuel, while I don't have much good to say about him, Federal veterans' benefits have not been cut during the Bush regime.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:51 AM

In reply to Blairs favourite Welshman, I was born into an artifical state, set up by the British Government in 1922 for 50 years discrimination was all we knew.

In jobs, education, even barred from any form of politics through the use of gerrymander, the city of Derry had a population threequarters Irish Nationalists and the set-up was such that the Unionists were forever in the magority.

The Judical system along with the RUC Police force, ran the six counties of Ulster as they wished, a blind eye was turned on this evil by a British Government not in the least interested until the Nationalists began peaceful protests against the system only to be hammered down by the RUC.

The tactics used by the Brits involved the use of local unionist para-militaries to do their killing, by setting up any member of the local nationalist population that were becoming a nuisance, this included two Lawyers Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson.

Yes, we live in the UK but it was a long way removed from Cardiff or Glasgow.

What we see going on in Iraq is a carbon copy of what went on in the six counties of occupied Ulster.Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: In support of our servicemen and women..
From: Gareth
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 02:40 PM

Hmmm ! If I recalled The Republic of Ireland were signatories to that treaty. Perhaps it would be correct to call the 6 counties liberated.
Gareth