BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:47 PM

I have three children who are all adults now, all graduated from college in 4 years, and there is not a murderer or lazy person among the three. They all love to come home, I love to see them come (and also enjoy seeing their taillights it the end of the visit.) I have been married to the same wonderful woman for 35 years, and this is a great credit to her longsuffering. I have managed to muddle along with life making lots of mistakes and hopefully learning from them.

I think I have instilled the concept in my children that life isn't always fair, suck it up and deal with it. My wife and I have always said we raised children by "skillful neglect" but I see all the heartaches around us with other people's kids, and I guess we stumbled on to something right over the years. I think more aptly put, we reared or children by example rather than making lots of rules, etc. I guess this seems to be my greatest accomplishment, but it is hard to take much credit for it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:42 PM

Great response to guest, Fred. Nothing is more prideful than someone who takes pride in not being prideful. People who don't think they're any good don't end up doing a whole lot of good. I think the operative guideline is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. That means that we have to start with ourselves.

Maybe I could get a job in a fortune cookie factory?

It's good to see people taking satisfaction, and even pride that they have been able to help someone else. As long as the motivating power is love, satisfaction is fine. One is the motive, the other is the after-effect.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:22 PM

I decided a long time ago to make an effort to be kind to people. Sometimes this is a difficult endeavor. When I was depressed it was especially difficult. I suppose it's true, though, that the people we least want to be kind to are probably the ones who need it most.

I rarely watch the show "Friends," but every now and then I happen to catch it. One night, the friends were debating whether or not there was any such thing as a selfless act of kindness; because when you are kind to someone without any regard for what you get back, you do get something back. You get a good feeling for having helped someone out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Sam L
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 03:21 PM

Gee, now I'm embarrassed. But I've come to see that I have a gift of a supernatural arrogance, and always have, since the age of 4. Ask my mom. It's supernatural in that I don't need any empirical evidence to support my arrogance, but that arrogance combined with the slightest smidge of occasional decency has allowed me to do things I'd just as soon do, without regard for what people will think. So, for example, I can continue to doggedly pursue things that any sane person would've rightly concluded they had no talent for. Again, ask my mom. This is perfectly true, and not self-congratulatory. Sometimes our deepest faults, no matter how hard we ply them, accidentally come to some good end. Can't we count that?

Guest's remarks remind of of when someone did our astro charts, and since my wife and I are both pisces, she thought every good thing sounded like HER, and left me twisting in the wind with all my faults on my head.

   It's not really self-congratulations to affirm one's values, to assess what has mattered, lingeringly, as opposed to all the things that one is supposed to care about in the way of accomplishments, prestige, and b.s. If people thought of it more and affirmed it more they'd have more of the freedom that always seems just around the corner, soon as I make more money, soon as I get some recognition, make my mark, soon as I look like I'm living well to other people.

    And if it is self-congratulatory, sometimes, so what. Can't you give yourself a break from regrets and self-reproach for five minutes without somebody wanting to drag you back into the pool they're pissing in? It may be awkward, but can't you reach around and give yourself a back-rub without somebody ridiculing your strained metaphor? Thanks y'all for sharing the stuff here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM

Jerry, I think that line you used-"The greatest things that we do, are out of love" Is a great line. Sounds like a song there. I also think what you and your wife did for your neighbor was a wonderful thing and very kind.
Yours and Ebbie's stories welled my eyes!

Gern, I think my story is similar to yours although my Dad is still living on his own.
It has been a few years but I decided not to make a move that took me far away from my parents. My Mom died suddenly, leaving Dad on his own. Me being the closest child, I am here for him now, even when he considers me a pain in the butt when I'm always checking in on him! I know he appreciates the fact that I am here and close. I've had to get him into the hospital on three different occasions now, so I know he is grateful that I am around.
I am not boasting or want congradulations, I just decided, I will bloom where I am planted. As long as my dad is still living, I choose to be here for him if he needs me. I will also take him into my home if it comes to that.

Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:47 PM

overwhelming self interest born of 3.5 billion years of human phylogeny.


That is one terrific turn of phrase, pal.

The greatest thing I have ever done without question is to help Barky find a place in the world. I wouldn't dream of presuming to say that I brought her to it -- she has always been her own person in the fullest sense. And from time to time I have helped other people as well. Which is the least I could do considering the fact that I have also brought my share of pain in the world.

Personally, I am all for self-iinterest, but I think there is a world of difference between selfish interest and enlilghtened self-interest. What I see in the answers here are not self-congratulatory, or egoistic, but they are simply rationally self-interested. That's a very different thing, IMHO.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:03 PM

Guest: You're missing the whole point of this thread if you think it is self-congratulatory..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 02:01 PM

The greatest thing that I've ever done is to help people out, and just leave it there.

I'm sorry but I find the self congratulatory nature of this thread somewhat distasteful.

But that's just me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:58 PM

I agree, Jerry. A good friend of mine is a pastor who was raised in a church that was so anti-flesh, this pastor now has a hard time proclaiming anything in totally positive terms. I play music for his weekly service, now... it seems clear to me that a great thing I can let God do through me is just to love this man and his people, and to let him see me doing that... if he can see that I see something, perhaps he will see it too, and see these things in himself as well.

IMO, it's great to talk about "It wasn't me, it was God. I can't do it, but He can." But without making a decision of one's will, that one is a fit and willing instrument for use, one is living as though God has not been equipping and preparing one to do what is asked... .

I guess making and acting upon the decision to love, that would be the greatest thing.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: TIA
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:57 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with the setting your own needs aside part...

My mother has a rule: if faced with multiple courses of action, the one you really don't want to pursue is the one you probably should pursue.

Following this has helped me (usually) override the overwhelming self interest born of 3.5 billion years of human phylogeny.

From the stories above, youse is good folks...

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:48 PM

And you are right, bbc... this thread is not in praise of ourselves... it is a reflection on the occasions when we have risen above ourselves, set ourselves and our own needs aside, and helped someone else.

We all need to be reminded of the potential for good that is in all of us.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM

Ebbie: What a story! There's a Mudcatter who I hope will add her story about a college age daughter of an old friend of hers who called her in the greatest state of anxiety and depression. I've had that happen to me with a close friend one time. I don't think these things happen by accident... what a gift to be there for someone who is that seriously in need of help.

A few years back, at a bible stufy session, someone kept interrupting the lesson, asking questions about what to say to someone who is planning to commit suicide. Our pastor would respond to the specific question, and then go back to the text we were studying. A few minutes later, the same person would ask another question about suicide. Finally, our pastor said, "Do you know someone who is planning to commit suicide?" and the man answered, "Yes, me.." Everyone rose from their chairs and formed a circle around him and began to pray, and everyone offered to be there for him at any time he needed someone to talk to. That was five or six years ago. The man is doing beautifully now, able to help others who are going through similar times of despair. Sometimes all that is needed is to tell someone you'll be there for them... and mean it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:29 PM

For me, the 'greatest' things I have done are the times when I was open to being an instrument, a time when my own needs and facade were set aside- and something remarkable happened. It happens once in awhile- if only I were able to forget myself more often!

Once at a music party I saw the tension in the shoulders of a woman (who I didn't know) who was sitting on the floor in front of me on the couch. Tapping her on the shoulder, I motioned her to scoot back and let me 'do' her shoulders. Which I did for the next 20 minutes, until the muscles became flat and relaxed.

In a break, she turned her head to me and whispered, Thank you. I was thinking of how to kill myself.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:10 PM

bbc, I intended no reproof and I hope you didn't take it that way. That's just... my answer.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM

Aside from my children, I suppose it's going into, and staying in,social work.I have sometimes used this forum to vent my frustration, my tiredeness and my anger at some of the things I've seen or had to work with but never, not once, has it been about the people I work with, but rather the systems I work within.
Under-funded, undervalued and misunderstood,I often wonder why I, and thousands like me, keep going.....but we do and that, IMO, is pretty great.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:51 AM

I don't think this thread is intended to bring praise to ourselves, but to share things that have given us a sense of satisfaction & meaning &, perhaps, to inspire others. My guess is that the greatest thing I will have done is to have fostered two orphans while I was living in South Korea & to have found homes for them with families in the U.S. In Korea, as orphans, their social options would have been quite limited. I've had the joy to see them grow up with much broader, richer life choices.

Respectfully,

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:44 AM

The greatest thing I have done is to NOT look at what I have done, but to look at (and point to) what Someone far greater does, from time to time, through me. When I've been able to get the ME out of the way, anything I may be part of has had far more impact. But I can't even fairly claim credit for getting the ME out of the way-- I prayed that I would be able to, so that's all His, too, really.

That's not a viewpoint that has been terribly welcome at Mudcat, and it's sure not PC in today's world, but that's my answer.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:38 AM

tia, I have done a similar thing a few times in my life and find it to be wonderfully rewarding. I sat down when I had finally finished my education and evaluated the impact that my teachers had had on me. In the final analysis, only a handful had been truly life changing to me. I wrote 5 letters to these individuals, who had been teachers over a span of 28 years, (I started to school in 1954, and didn't finish my education until 1982) and just told them how much of an impact they had made on my life. All were delighted to hear such praise. I also sent a similar letter to a boss who had fired me from a job. He had been completely correct in doing so, and I was able to draw from that experience as well. He was most surprised to get that letter!
These kind of things are easy to do, cost nothing, and not only does the recipient of such a letter get great benefit, but the sender gets a great feeling as well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: TIA
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM

KimC said "...the greatest things we do, are the ones we never find out about." That's probably true, and definitely too bad. So this morning I wrote a letter to an eye doctor who corrected a problem I had as a child. It went un- or misdiagnosed for several years, and I had become an academic and behavioural mess. This guy spotted it, fixed it, and my whole life turned around. I've always remembered that, but never told him (he's old, retired, ailing...). Read KimC's message, and wrote him a letter just now.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:09 AM

It's a great question, isn't it? I was moved by your response Fred because it touched my life and that of my sons. When I was a kid, I was very self-rejecting, and because I was turned inward, and was a skinny kid who stunk at sports, I was pretty much either ignored or picked on in school. I still remember a birthday party a girl in my class threw in 7th grade, and there were only two kids in our class who she didn't invite. I was one of them.

My youngest son went through hell, when I went through my divorce in my first marriage. He was even worse at sports than I was as a kid, and really struggled to make it through every day at school. Because he knew what it felt like to be ridiculed and picked on, he too made a point of welcoming every new kid in shcool. As the kids got to know their classmates, they often left my son behind, and he was still ostracized by everyone. Finally, he had made a couple of friends in his class. One day, one of the most popular kids approached my son and asked if he wanted to be in a club he had formed, of the most popular kids in the class. Now, normally, this would have been "the greatest thing" that had ever happened to my son, because he had been so cruelly ridiculed for so many years. But, he asked if his friend Danny could be in the club, too. The "President" of the club told my son that his friend couldn't be.
A decision to make. My son told the kid that if his friend couldn't be in the club, he didn't want to be in it. And, to top that, he said he was going to start a club that his friend could be in, and my son was going to be President. That had to be one of the greatest things my son ever did. But not the last..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:49 AM

Fred,

I think that was a truly great thing you did. I was always the new kid, having moved to 6 different schools thru the 7th grade, I can tell you how important you were to the new kid. It is easy to do a good thing when everyone is lining up to do it. It is a hard thing to do what you did, doing something that no one else is offering to do.   Seems like you have imparted this greatness to your kids. I will have to think a bit on this question for myself!

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:40 AM

Not much competition in my resume for this distinction. The best thing I ever did was to provide home care for my dying parents, along with my wife Barbara. They were both dying and wanted to stay at home, so we moved in. Barbara took over my mother's care (cancer) and I assumed the dadly duties (strokes, Alzheimers). It was brutal, exhausting, it consumed our own lives and drove me into prolonged depression and regrets. But one thing I will never regret is being there when they really needed it. In my overdrawn Karma account is one hefty deposit for this difficult period in our lives.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Sam L
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM

Jerry, when I saw this it reminded me of an idea for a thread asking the greatest thing you've never done, about ambitions and things one chose not to pursue. Think I'll start that in parallel.

   But the greatest things I've ever done are quite small, and old. In elementary school I always befriended the new kids who everyone picked on, and when I see my kids do things like that it's worth a thousand report cards. My daughter was voted Kindest Student in her class.
    But I didn't have the nerve to speak up in 7th grade when a pathetic P.E. teacher joined in calling a girl by an insulting nickname, and I've regretted it so long and hard now I think there'd be trouble if I ever ran into the guy.

    Being a good and helpful critic to people about their work is something I've always tried to do, and I've had a few good moments, when people seemed energised and validated by a little recognition. Fans don't really help, sometimes, adulation makes you feel lonely. Useful criticism and appreciation is hard to do well, and I've been nosing through old threads about it here.

I'll have to think about it some more. I don't have much to say for myself.

Subject: RE: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:08 AM

Wow. A big question, to be sure.

I don't know. I would have to think on it.

Sometimes, though, I think there are things we do, that we don't think are big, or great, but they mean a whole lot to someone else. I believe we very often touch people without knowing it, or even meaning to. Maybe some of the greatest things we do, are the ones we never find out about.

Subject: BS: The Greatest Thing Youve Done
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 09:52 AM

The other night, Col K, Momnop and I were having one of our late night sessions in Mudchat. Jeanie is often there too, but her phone line was down. Colin asked a question which has stayed in my mind, and I don't think that he'd mind if I shared it with you. He asked, "What is the greatest thing you've ever done?" I had to stop and think a minute. Did he mean greatest achievement? Or, the thing that gave me the greatest pleasure, or sense of pride? Or, the best thing that I've done? Momnop had no problem. She said "that's easy..
giving birth to my son and trying to be the best Mother I can be for him." My answer took a little longer, and I'm still trying to answer the question. My first response was that I have no way of evaluating the "greatness" of the things that I've done in my life, but I do know that the greatest things that we do are out of love. Like everyone else, I take pride in the few real accomplishments I've had in my life. But I don't think that I'd list them as the "greatest" things I've done. And I realize that in all of them, it hasn't been me alone that has accomplished them.

Momnop grasped the question immediately, and her answer was the right one. When we do something out of pure love, with no selfish motives and give of ourselves without measure of the cost, that is the greatest thing we do. Bob Franke wrote a wonderful song many years ago about being a parent, with the memorable line "It's not the thing that I do best, but it's the best thing that I do." But, not all of us are parents, and we all do every-day great things that are quickly forgotten, and perhaps not even noticed by more than one of two people. And, if while we're doing them we're thinking, "Man, am I great, or what?" I question their greatness.

One thing we talked about was the gift of being there to help someone when they are struggling. As an example, early yesterday morning, I was downstairs, enjoying a leisurely start to the day, when I heard my wife running around upstairs. I figured something was wrong, and immediately ran upstairs. She had heard someone calling for help outside. It was pouring rain, and barely above freezing, and when we first looked out the front door, we couldn't see anyone. And then we saw our neighbor, lying flat on her back on a bank of snow and ice next to her mail box. She's had a long history of strokes, and my first thought was that she'd had a massive stroke and was paralyzed. All I had on was a night shirt and a pair of thin, floppy slippers, but when I saw her, my only thought was to help her. So, I ran out in the pouring rain, sloshing through the ice water that was flowing down the street until I reached her. She had been lying flat on her back in that pouring rain for a long time, and she was afraid that she was just going to die there. As I started to help her up, a car was driving by and saw us. As the guy said, he thought I must be some kind of whacko to be going out dressed the way that I was, in the pouring rain. And then he saw our neighbor. Between us, we helped her up and got her into the house. By then, my wife was getting dressed, and she came over to take care of her and make sure that she was allright. She hadn't had a stroke, but had slipped on the ice, and with her arthritic legs, she couldn't get up. We talked to her this morning and she is feeling fine (and I don't have pneumonia.) We're taking her to the doctor this morning for an already scheduled office visit, and he will make sure everything is allright with her.

Momnop then told a story of how she had been put in the right place at the right time to help a young boy who broke his arm. And I do believe that there is a common ingredient here. When we commit acts of completely selfless love, that is when we are greatest. Not all are as dramatic as running out in the pouring rain, or helping a young boy with a broken arm. Some are just every-day acts of love that are very simple... helping someone load a heavy box into their car, or just listening to someone who is desparately in need of a compassionate ear.

In these times when we're beaten down by threats of war and we see the ugliness of life around us, I thank Colin for asking that question. It is a reminder that there is a greatness in each of us. If we feel powerless to stop wars, there are people in need who we walk by, every day who would appreciate a little loving kindness.

Anyone got a good story to share?

Jerry