Categories of Irish Music

Subject: Categories of Irish Music
From: Rawlins
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 06:32 PM

While at an American Irish Pub, drinking some what heavily, my friend and I began to discuss the common threads to Irish folk music. We theorized, as much as one can theorize after 4 or 5 pints of cider, that you can place all the songs into one of 3 or 4 categories: Songs where everyone gets drunk, everyone dies, somone goes to America, or any combination of those three for a total of 7 categories.

Can anyone do it in less?

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 06:45 PM

Rawlins, You are missing one of the most important, i.e. unrequited love.
Mick Lowe.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Rawlins
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 07:50 PM

But can't you fit unrequited love into the either "everyone gets drunk" or "everyone dies" categories? Or in some cases both?

Rawlins

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: BSeed
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 08:17 PM

Tom Lehrer, an American writer and performer of satirical songs, wrote "An Irish Ballad"in a simple harmonic minor: Amin, E7, Amin, Dmin, Amin, E7, Amin, etc.:

About a maid I'll sing a song, rickety-tickety-tin, About a maid I'll sing a song, who didn't have her family long; Not only did she do them wrong, she did every one of them in, them in, She did every one of them in.

Her mother she could never stand, rickety-tickety-tin, Her mother she could never stand, and so a cyanide soup she planned. Her mother died with the spoon in her hand, And her face in a hideous grin, a grin, Her face in a hideous grin.

She set her sister's hair on fire, rickety-tickety-tin, She set her sister's hair on fire, and as the flames grew higher and higher, She danced around the funeral pyre, A-playin' the violin, o-lin, A-playin" the violin.

One day when she had nothin' to do, rickeyt-tickety-tin, One day when she had nothin' to do, she cut her baby brother in two, And served him up in and Irish stew, And invited the neighbors in, -bors in, She invited the neighbors in.

And when at last the police came by, rickety-tickety-tin, And when at last the police came by her little pranks she did not deny, To do so she would have had to lie, And lyin' she knew was a sin, a sin, Yes, lyin' she knew was a sin.

There are two more verses--her father and her brother--but I can't remember them. If anyone knows them, I'd love to have them again. My brother stole my Tom Lehrer songbook.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 10:09 PM

You don't need your brother for this-- words are in the DT.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Rawlins
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 11:05 PM

Ever feel like the point of your thread is lost?

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 11:35 PM

yup, I've even felt the point in my head is lost in this thread, or the head of this point is lost in this joint, & maybe the loss of this thread is caused by the point of my head, or might be the loss of my head was due to my response to this thread. Sorry, I don't get like this often, something got into me & it was giggling, couldn't get it out. OK, I passes quickly out at late night, need sleep, bye, bye. Barry

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: BSeed
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 02:40 AM

Hey, rawlins: at least it kept the thread going a while...and it fit the everyone dies in the end category.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 07:05 AM

Speaking of unrequited love: I was MC'ing a nicely international singing session with Danes, Irish, Brits of various persuasions, Bretons and God-knows-what, about a year ago. Eventually, one of the Danes stood up solemnly and announced: " I have been listening all afternoon to beautiful, sad Irish Songs of unrequited love. In Denmark, too, we have a song of unrequited love - ONE song!". Ouch!

Regards

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 05:55 PM

Rawlins,
Grant you a lot of unrequited lovers either turn to death or drink, however there are a few I can think of that refrain from either. I Live Not Where I Love doesn't mention booze or demise (I think), but then again I think this is an English tune (OPEN TARGET READY). The Spanish Lady deffinately doesn't allude to either.
Then again there's the good old work ethic likes the Boys of Killybegs (Unlike Donegal Danny).
To finish with a couple of questions - if in an Irish pub what on earth were you doing drinking cider?
Secondly, if you and your companion were feeling the worse for wear (I often am so I speak with the voice of experience), I would have picked on a easier subject, i.e. Country & Western, which can be put into one category, SH*TE.
All the best, keep on listening to true music,
Mick

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Dan Mulligan
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 06:42 PM

Let's not forget the songs in which the love is most definitely ....requited. (ie. "The Trooper & the Maid")

After all, we all need a good ummm... requite... now and then.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 06:56 PM

What about all the Irish songs about satisfied lust. OOPPPs. Barry Again

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 07:26 PM

well, the Irish DO seem to lean heavily to a few topics!! It is a bit like the Drama critic's review of an actress..."She ran the gamut of emotions--from A to B" There DO seem to be also a fair number of songs simply proclaiming the glory of Ireland, the Irish, or some particular socio-politcal brand of Irishness....wonder where those fit..

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 03:48 AM

On the semi-serious point behind this thread: The Irish folk tradition is no different from any other in its concern with fundamentals - it's just that, of all the English language traditions, it needed least "reviving" - so the knobbly bits show!

Regards

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Rawlins
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 12:30 PM

Wow the thread lives on!

Actually Country Western music is best summed up as 4 chords and the truth.

And the Irish Pub is a place in Farmington, Michigan, USA and they serve Cidar there.. actually I was downing Killean's Red like water and Colin was dowing Cidar then Guiness, then Cider, then Guiness.

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: Cuilionn
Date: 30 Jul 98 - 02:57 AM

At the risk of stating something Ye Auld Folkes might know already, Early irish laws recognized three "official" catagories of music in terms of the the intent or effect of each one: music for inspiration and inciting, music for lamentation or mourning, and music for soothing or healing. These were the types of music a professional musician was hired to create/perform. If you pair these catagories of music up with the legal lists of officially-recognized types of poetry, i.e. satire, praise-poems, etc., I suspect you'd have a very workable short list. Sorry to frump about with ancient history in the midst of your whimsical ramblings, but perhaps the next contributor could set us giggling again? Or someone who remembers the bardic work catagories could fill in a bit more of the gap...

Gabh spòrs,

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: BSeed
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 03:08 AM

I hope everyone interested in Irish music has checked out the thread "Where is Spancil Hill?" It reads like a wonderful story in the form of short notes (mostly short notes) until Frank McGrath begins spinning the tale and finally furnishes the original words and the touching story behind the writing of the song. Speaking of McGrath, the DigiTrad doesn't have "Mrs. McGrath." I've looked it up by title and some lines but it doesn't seem to be there. ("Mrs. McGrath, the captain said, would you like to make a soldier out of your son Ted?") It's not about getting drunk or dying or any of those things. Another similar song, I think also Irish, which isn't there is "Haroo, Haroo.": "With your drums and guns and guns and drums, the enemy nearly slew ye--Oh Darling Dear, you look so queer, Johnny, I hardly knew ye." --Seed

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: O'Boyle
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 04:25 AM

Try looking for it under johnny I hardly knew ye (I didn't try Mrs McGrath). And granted no one dies in either song, but johnny I hardly knew ye and Mrs McGrath are both tragic songs about young men losing their limbs in English wars. I can't resist the pun here, but in your arguement you don't have a leg to stand on....haroo, haroo...

Slainte

Rick

Subject: RE: Categories of Irish Music
From: BSeed
Date: 01 Aug 98 - 04:34 PM

Actually, last night I thought* I had posted an admission that, although I had been unable to find them via Search DigiTrad Database, I did find both of them on the list of titles, Haroo, Haroo as both Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye, and as Johnny, I Hardly Knew You, but since I'm getting nothing but 500 Searcher Error however I try to get into the DigiTrad, I haven't been able to access them. *I wrote it, submitted it, approved the transaction, went back and cleared the entry, then shut down, but I see it's not on the thread.