BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al

Subject: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Peg
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 02:09 AM

I saw this organization mentioned in Alex Beam's column in the Boston Globe today...

http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org/index.htm

Truly terifying and funny at the same time. Check out the fundraising "Golf and Prayer Walk"! Its stated goal is to support the troops overseas; but how? Why, by making sure they're PRAYED FOR, of course! Although why this takes money, is anyone's guess...oh, and they also pledge to use these funds to "counteract rising international antiwar protests and anti-American troop sentiment."

This group is also declaring a "national" Day of Prayer on May 1st; coinciding, interestingly enough, with the oh-so-pagan holiday of Beltane...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 08:25 AM

Sometimes it feels like the world is turning into Bart SImpson right in front of my eyes...


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: curmudgeon
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 08:46 AM

I found it interesting to see a picture of children involved with the Pagan eggs. Also this group should really think about the quotation from Lincoln; they seem the sort who would deny freedom to any who disagree with them.

IMO, the choice of May 1st, is more reflective of political bias rather than religious. Relatively few people know the pre-Christian associations with May Day. But far more associate the day with the grand parades once held in Moscow. After all, it is the original "Labor Day."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:12 AM

First of all, I have made no bones about being a Follower of Christ here at Mudcat but with that said out front the Christian Right got their heads so stuck in the Old Testament that Jesus doesn't get a word in edgewise.

But lets look at the politics. The Cristian Right is well organized and well financed (tax free, I might add). It has access to the media and to millions of folks who are just trying to live the goood Chrisian life.

When George, Jr.'s handlers mapped out his political career they took his one major weekness ( a past littered with drugging, womanizing, and partying) and turned it into a positive. So the told Junior that if he went before the Christian Right with a "confession" and a "testimonial", all would be forgiven so long as he also carried the message of "intollerance" that these folks love! Well, Junior did it and it worked gresat. Now he wouldn't have to answer any questions and as an added benefit he got a major group of folks on board. Purdy danged shrewd of his handlers to come up with that one. So ever since Junior has acted as if he was a man of Faith. Well, as for his Faith, that is between Junior and God, but after seeing the things that Junior has done, I'm wonderin' where, other than the Old Testament, he could find his justifications. But I certainly can't question his *faith* in a ploy that has served him very well.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

Here's another org. of theirs which seems scary in its seriousness and extremism: American Center for Law & Justice.

According to their info the May date has been around for awhile, though not on the 1st:

In 1952, President Truman signed into law a joint resolution by Congress declaring an annual National Day of Prayer. In 1988, President Reagan amended the law by permanently setting the day as the first Thursday of every May. See 36 U.S.C. § 119 (West Supp. 2000); 131 Cong. Rec. S5323-03 (daily ed. May 2, 1985) (statement of Sen. Armstrong). As we approach the forty-ninth consecutive observance of the National Day of Prayer on May 4, 2000, we at the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) would like to inform you of your rights to participate in National Day of Prayer activities.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 11:52 AM

It's not surprising that the prayer effort seems a tad one-sided - not even a peep about praying for the millions of Iraqis whose lives have either been ended or devastated by "Bush et al" - either this Bush or the last one!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Beccy
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:07 PM

Your cynicism is astonishing.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:46 PM

Huh? Since when is a simple factual observation "cynicism"? The "presidential prayer team" people make absolutely no mention of the victims of this war! Did you read the article, Beccy?

The only other "mass" prayer effort I've looked into - the Prayer Vigil for George Bush on April 1st - focussed on helping the US administration to resolve the conflict according to "greatest good of ALL concerned", not just the Americans.

I often question the value of "prayer vigils" - particularly the karmic consequences of "praying" for other people without their permission - and thus, attempting to interfere with their own free will. That's a spiritual no-no! Nevertheless, I did take part in that one on April 1st. Lot of good that did!

OK, ok, now that WAS cynical! *sigh*

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Peg
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:58 PM

quite right, curmudgeon, I had not thought of that...but given the propensity of the religous right to demonize neo-paganism it would not surprise me if the motivation for choosing this date was somehow connected to my original assumption...

Bobert, thanks for your comments. I certainly should have added that I did not wish to offend those Christians who, well, actually behave in a "Christian" manner that takes after Christ's teachings...you know, love for ones fellow humans, tolerance, compassion, that sort of thing...
but these fundamentalists who are full of hatred and bigotry, and who hide behind a mantle of piety in order to further a political agenda (ignoring for the moment that any thing of the sort is a violation of the First Amendment), well, thay can all go to hell as far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 01:03 PM

Peg - anyone who is "full of hatred and bigotry, and who hide behind a mantle of piety in order to further a political agenda" is already in "hell", as far as I'm concerned. Too bad they feel so compelled to inflict their sorry state upon the rest of us.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 08:01 PM

Just to keep the record straight:—

The following is part of an e-mail I received this morning from Glen Gershmel, a friend of mine. Glen is the National Director of the Lutheran Peace Fellowship. I think this reflects the reaction of many of the main-stream (non-Fundamentalist) Christian Churches to this. Mr. Bush is just a bit over the top—
#    #    #Dear friend in troubling times,

What I am sharing with you is an e-mail that came my way, referring to the most egregious misuse of Christian or religious symbols and practice that I have seen in a long time.

This ought to be the focus of a renewed engagement by leaders of the major denominations much like was attempted before the war began. The Intro came with one version [of H. Res. 153]I received, which I'll share much as I received it, adding a few thoughts of my own.

Dear Friends:

While our gaze is fixed on events in Iraq, I thought you should know that your elected representatives have been carefully attending to the commonweal. They have bravely gone on record and overwhelmingly passed H. Res. 153 (text below)*. This extraordinary bill calls on our President to designate a day of prayer and fasting. The entire text contains a level of religiosity that any of us might have thought utterly forbidden by the 1st Amendment. The following quote captures that aspect of the resolution:

"Whereas, through prayer, fasting, and self-reflection, we may better recognize our own faults and shortcomings and submit to the wisdom and love of God in order that we may have guidance and strength in those daily actions and decisions we must take;"

That such a bill could pass the House 346 to 49 is almost as shocking as the virtual silence by the news media regarding its adoption. Not one Republican voted against it. While 48 brave Democrats did vote nay, another 23 less sturdy Dems voted "present." You will see that the text of the Resolution cites vaguely similar proclamations during the Revolutionary and Civil Wars.

Flo

I am disturbed by the blurring of the church - state line in this document, and even more so, by the bad theology (e.g. the first sentence "Recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure [!] the blessings and protection of Providence...")

Two things that I find at least as disturbing: First, this is an unusually crass effort to shape public opinion masquerading as prayer. Second, are the echoes of what Orwell so well captured in "1984" - the use of public activities to foster a climate of fear, of permanent war, as a central feature of a process of cultivating citizen obedience and docility.

What do you think:

Glen
#    #    #Now, let's see . . . looking at the Bill of Rights, how many Amendments has the Bush Administration run its Magic Marker though so far?

Don Firth

*If anyone wishes me to post a copy of H. Res. 153, I will do so.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:07 PM

Peg and Daylia:

You're both right. Like they say, "Hell ain't half full yet."

Don:

The only one he hasn't messed with also has a big 'ol lobby and a lot of voters. Take a guess.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:34 PM

"Whereas, through prayer, fasting, and self-reflection, we may better recognize our own faults and shortcomings..."

Amen. Choose your method.

"... and submit to the wisdom and love of God..."

Now they got to go and muck it up.

"...in order that we may have guidance and strength in those daily actions and decisions we must take..."

Couldn't they just have left out the God part? Otherwise I have no beef. Americans in general can use a little more meditation and self-reflection, whether one chooses to call what you do "prayer" or some other name.

Big kudos to the Pope today for offering up a prayer to the victims everywhere of "terrorism, war and hate." Nicely done.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 10:24 PM

Yeah, Nicole. The Pope *rules*! (Bobert? That sounds like yir 17 year old son, Ben (Will)...) Yeah? So what? The Pope *rules*. And though I ain't no Cathie 'cause I don't believe in no *middle men*, the Pope has more wisdom in his dandriff than the can be found in the entire anti-human, anti-earth Bush administration...

Yeah, one's man "freedom fighter" is another's "terrorist". Killing folks 'cause one thinks they have the fast tract to God's will is nothing more that the work of Satan and his arrogant and evil self....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 11:57 PM

What you say about Americans needing more time of reflection, etc. may be, Nicole, BUT it does NOT need to mandated by law.

What a bunch of wankers, Congress AND the media! Thank you, Don, for posting that!

We had a Rep. quoted in the paper today justifying the war on Iraq through Biblical terms, quoted chapter and verse and called it a "just war" based on such. Reminds me of one of my fav. bumper stickers and I mean no offence to the more moderate among you:

God protect me from Your followers!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:14 AM

Amen, Kat!

Through Luke (12:46) Jesus speaks of such men as your Representative iin saying "Woe unto you, also, lawyers! For ye lade men with burden grievuos to be borne and ye yourselves touch not the burden with one of your fingers."

Seems that these "chickenhawks" have been around a long, long time.

And while I'm on the subject, I resent my tax dollars being spent for governmental Good Friday service led by an intollerant bigot, thank you.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: NicoleC
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 12:12 PM

I guess I look at it the way I look at a Congressional Declaration of Grandparent's Day or any other of the ridiculous and frequent proclamations of days of observance of this or that. Whoopee. It's not like anyone is going to force me to stay home and indulge in meditation. I just wish they'd leave God out of it, because it always comes down to WHOSE God -- and in case you haven't figured it out, it isn't accidental that they didn't say "the wisdom and love of the God or Goddess of your faith or lack thereof." THEIR God, not YOURS, is to be revered.

But I'd much rather the Congressional criminals be wrangling over a symbolic day of recognition than passing another law, unread by anyone voting on it, bloated with pork.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Helen
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 07:22 PM

Australian news item (some bits cut out, but I've kept a copy as an MsWord doc if anyone wants to see it after it falls off the edge of the News Archive page)

ABC News - Bush mourns loss of life in Iraq
http://www.abc.net.au/news/justin/nat/newsnat-20apr2003-5.htm]

[And I thought, when I read that that he was mourning Iraqi and non-Iraqi loss of life - silly me! Helen]

Posted: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 2:06 AEST

US President George W Bush, whose public expressions of faith have raised eyebrows in Europe, has mourned the loss of American lives in Iraq, saying God's purposes were "not always clear".

Marking the religious holidays of Easter and Passover in his weekly radio address, Mr Bush said the holy season had "special meaning" this year and welcomed the release of seven US prisoners of war rescued north of Baghdad.

...

He said the United States "continues to pray for all who serve in our military and those who remain in harm's way".

...

"This year, Easter and Passover have special meaning for the families of our men and women in uniform who feel so intensely the absence of their loved ones during these days," Mr Bush said.

"This holy season reminds us of the value of freedom, and the power of a love stronger than death."

[**** This is the bit you might have trouble finding on the front pages of the major US newspapers. Helen]

Mr Bush's evangelical Protestantism, which he embraced about 16 years ago when he gave up alcohol, has prompted questions abroad and in mainstream US media about how much it colors his presidency, his stand on Iraq and the war on terror.

Aides say Mr Bush reads the Bible every day, opens Cabinet meetings with a prayer and sometimes prays in the Oval Office.

During the 2000 presidential campaign, he declared Jesus Christ the political philosopher or thinker he most admired "because he changed my heart".

Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, Mr Bush has painted the world in stark terms of good and evil.

He told reporters last month he sought guidance from God in making the decision to send US troops into Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein and rid the country of suspected weapons of mass destruction.

Commentators in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair's firm but discreet Christian beliefs have also aroused attention, have described Mr Bush as "chaplain in chief" and analysed his use of religious phrases and images in detail.

German and French leaders have joined religious figures in voicing concern about religion's prominent political role in the United States, where conservative Christians are an important constituency of Mr Bush's Republican Party.

"America mourns those who have been called home and we pray that their families will find God's comfort and God's grace," Mr Bush said.

"His purposes are not always clear to us, yet this season brings a promise: that good can come out of evil, that hope can arise from despair."

Mr Bush, who speaks of the power of prayer and has hinted at God's "divine plan," recalled the battlefield loss of Corporal Henry Brown, a 22-year-old soldier from Mississippi, and the words of the soldier's best friend Frank Woods.

"He believed God was working through him and he was part of the plan. I guess part of the plan now is God calling his soldier home," Mr Bush quoted Mr Woods as saying.

© 2003 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Copyright information: http://abc.net.au/common/copyrigh.htm
Privacy information: http://abc.net.au/privacy.htm

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:32 PM

Last of the Big Time Spenders: U.S. Military Budget Still the World's Largest, and Growing [from the Center for Defense Information's website]


Selected Countries Military Budget

($Billions)

United States 399.1
Russia* 65.0
China* 47.0
Japan 42.6
United Kingdom 38.4
France 29.5
Germany 24.9
Saudi Arabia 21.3
Italy 19.4
India 15.6
South Korea 14.1
Taiwan* 10.7
Brazil* 10.7
Israel 10.6
Spain 8.4
Australia 7.6
Canada 7.6
Netherlands 6.6
Turkey 5.8
Kuwait* 3.9
Iran* 4.8
Singapore 4.8
Sweden 4.5
Egypt* 4.4
Norway 3.8
Greece 3.5
Poland 3.5
Argentina* 3.3
United Arab Emirates* 3.1
Colombia* 2.9
Belgium 2.7
Pakistan* 2.6
Denmark 2.4
Vietnam 2.4
North Korea* 2.1
Czech Republic 1.6
Iraq* 1.4
Philippines 1.4
Portugal 1.3
Libya* 1.2
Hungary 1.1
Syria 1.0
Cuba* 0.8
Sudan* 0.6
Yugoslavia 0.7
Luxembourg 0.2

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM

Problem with Bush's brand of Christianity is that there ain't too much Christ in it, if any!

Hey, they say that it takes one to know one! Well, I'm sure he's say the same about me, but he has less *Faith* in God than one of Little Hawk's rocks. He is a phoney-baloney, ho-dad, Christian. I know it, and he knows it!

Real Christians know *real* Christians. Yeah, he talks the talk, but that's all.

Yeah, he may think he's praying and receiving God's guidence but he's receiving the guidence of Satan.

Just too many inconsitencies.

Just too much overt corruption.

Just too much *pleasure* from hurting others.

All inconsistent with *my* God. (which is, IMO, the same as anyone's of true *Faith*. I don't get bogger down with the my's or your's when it comes to God.)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Apr 03 - 02:38 AM

It looks like we have a real talent for stirring the soup

!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Peg
Date: 20 Apr 03 - 03:30 AM

I wanna move to Luxembourg!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Non-profit'? Prayers for Bush et al
From: Helen
Date: 20 Apr 03 - 05:32 AM

Bobert,

You appear, based on what you are saying here, to be what I refer to as a *real* Christian, i.e. someone who sincerely tries to live his/her life according to the teachings of Christ. Thanks for your comments, and for your insights.

Helen