Tune Req: Fiddler's Green (midi)

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:56 PM

Pax, Butterfly. Just wanted to create some publicity for a talented guy.
SJ

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 08:23 PM

G'day Ray,

Roughly speaking ... yes. (I might describe it a new tune - firmly within the tradition - but that's what folk music always is!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Ray Padgett
Date: 17 Jun 03 - 10:29 AM

Hiya Bob Bolton
I think you have conceded that JC's verse tune can be considered as being non traditional and that his chorus follows the more traditional style associated with Tarpaulin Jacket etc used in parody format.
Or have you?
Cheers!
Ray P

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 06:51 PM

G'day again Ray Padgett,

I have not done a careful overlay of notes and phrasing, to compare the tune families, but I think the best way to describe John Connolly's tune's place in the spectrum of 'tradition' would be to say that the verse tune is a considerable reworking, while the chorus is much closer to that of the original. In the 1973 performance, I mentioned above, it was the point at which Declan started the chorus that the audience clearly recognised, and reacted to, its obvious relation to the Tarpaulin Jacket / Dying Trooper / Dying Swagman / Dying Sleepercutter / Dying etcetera family.

A few years ago, I had a breathless folkie (running a local - Sydney, Australia - folk club) tell me that he had found this great old "folk song" ... obviously the true ancestor and source of all the Dying Whoever songs. He was astounded when I pointed out that the author of the song in question was reported to be about to tour Australia (in a fairly low key manner)!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: BUTTERFLY
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 06:29 PM

The wording of my last post may have inadvertently suggested I was recommending stealing something (though it is quite a jump from downloading a MIDI, which someone else suggested by the way, to stealing someone's car), which I certainly wasn't, by any manner of means; what I meant was that it seemed that I was being accused of stealing just because I downloaded a MIDI!

If I had written a song and someone was interested enough to download the MIDI with a view to singing it, I would feel pretty flattered. Now if I had recorded it for profit, that would be a completely different matter. I repeat, how many of us have NOT recorded a tape from a friends record or CD player, etc?

As someone who pays their way and has never been in debt in my life(I only got a credit card 3 years ago to purchase over the Internet) nor intends to be, I also consider I can look the world in the eye.

Anyway this matter should have been closed with my last but one posting, thanking people for their help, and I am sure no-one wants to see 2 people slagging each other off. I am hopefully away on holiday tomorrow and hope that the above suggestion is taken to heart (ie this correspondence is now closed from my point of view!

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 12:38 PM

Well, Butterfly, you disappoint me. Surely 'someone on a low wage' as you claim to be should be even more sympathetic to the moral (not to mention legal) right of a composer to be rewarded for his hard work and singular talent. And the fact that he's still trying to earn a living during his retirement is hardly a justification for fleecing him.

Your response sounds like a manifestation of the wierd 'I can't afford it so I'll steal it' philosophy that affects a distressingly large section of our sick modern society. What next - have away with your neighbour's car (presumably on the basis that, like John's music, it's out there so it's fair game)?

I may be, in your oddball view, a self-righteous prat, but at least I'm honest, pay my way and can look the world straight in the eye.
SJ

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Ray Padgett
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 04:20 AM

Thanks for that Bob, altho' I suspect john Conolly would dispute the origins of his tune, even tho' its for the royalties ~ which appear to have been affected

John is singing well presently, saw him at Holmfirth FF with his wife who also sung one ~ John is also doing a bit with old friend Robin Garside from Sheffield
His mother Vi was a real character too (sadly passed on), her rendition of Maids when your Young was a favourite of mine

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: BUTTERFLY
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 07:31 PM

Some of us (especially people on a low wage such as myself) can't afford to buy a whole CD just because we like one song by a particular artist, though one might just remember the name and possibly buy something by them later, but not if some self-righteous prats tell me to buy something, not "nick it"! If someone wants to put a MIDI on the Internet then this is surely for people to use. I suppose none of us have ever copied album tracks on to tapes, exceeded the speed limit, etc.

If someone is retired then they are retired, if they are "making a living" as a professional musician then they are not retired, regardless of age. JC may indeed be a nice fellow but that is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 06:54 AM

G'day Ray Padgett,

I don't think anyone would dispute the origins of this tune in the Old Tarpaulin Jacket family of songs ... mostly about people dying of something! These typically start off with a verse:
"Wrap me up in ... (eg - my tarpaulin jacket)..."
- pretty close to John Connoly's:
"Dress me up in my oilskins and jumper ...".

But there is nothing wrong with re-working traditional song forms and tunes - that's what folk music is ... not dreary, would be singer/songwriter dirges.

Regards,

bob Bolton

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 05:09 AM

hello

trawlertown is available to buy direct from the record company at www.fellside.com also pete and john's track of fiddlers green from that album is on fellside's 25th anniversary album 'Flash Company' which has loads of other stunning music on. i would highly recommend it.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Ray Padgett
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:14 AM

I was unaware that there was a Fiddlers Green traditional tune and have always assumed that the words and tune had been written by John Conolly!
I was reading a back copy of Living Tradition last night and per chance an interview with John in 2000 I think it was, mentioned was the excellent song "Here's to the Grimsby Lads" which is also a very popular and well known song of John's
Good to see Pete Sumner responding, brought a tear to my eye!

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Jun 03 - 09:49 AM

I'd also recommend the (double) CD "By Humber's Brown Waters" it is one of the best I have ever bought. Both John and Bill sing some wonderful songs sometimes with some very unusual accompaniments. Linda usually has at least one of the disks in her car.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 11:52 PM

G'day Joe,

John Connolly has certainly drawn heavily on the traditional tune known all round the English-speaking world - mostly for "Dying something or other" songs. There are about a half dozen Australian versions in the tradition ... and the tune is still used, sardonically, by modern political song-writers, optimistically killing off the current incumbents!

That said, his tune is not exactly the same ... it may even have enough different notes to sneak past some of the American definitions of a copyrightable new tune! However, when I first heard it (sung by the late Declan Affley, Easter 1973, at the Port Phillip Folk Festival, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia) the first line or so had the audience laughing ... expecting yet another irreverent parody of the "Dying ..." genus. I'm happy to say they quickly recovered their composure and enjoyed a fine new song.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 09:16 PM

I guess I have mixed feelings about this issue. This 1966 song is well-known and has entered what I would call the "folk canon." I suppose it's the only John Connolly song that will ever make it into the folk canon. Heck, it's even in the Rise Up Singing songbook, and it's on a number of CD's I've bought - and I suppose every CD and songbook gives John a tiny royalty. I think it's only right that people should pay royalties if they're going to record a song and sell the recordings - eight cents a copy seems reasonable. If somebody has learned a song from a paid-for recording or concert and wants a MIDI, lyrics, or chords to experiment playing the song, I don't think they should have to pay for a complete songbook. If you're going to make money off a song, you should pay for it. If you're just going to try it out, I think maybe you shouldn't.

Besides, if the information in this thread is correct, I'd gather that the melody is in the public domain.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: paddywack
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 06:40 PM

I was asked to sing this song at the end of a radio Lancashire programme on the pub musicians licensing laws the other week.It went down that well that we were asked to make a recording of it and they played it in its entirety the following week.
                                             So if you are out there John, there should be some royalties coming your way.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Kernow John
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 05:30 PM

If you don't by the CD's get John's Songbook or both.(BG)
Just advertising really!

KJ

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny & Mrs.
Date: 10 Jun 03 - 12:55 PM

Butterfly, you neatly sidestepped my recommendation that you buy one of John's CDs - 'By Humber's Brown Water' or 'Trawlertown' have it on there.

John 'retired' from his job as a librarian in Grimsby some time ago and is filling his retirement, and earning a living, as a professional musician. The whole point about being 'professional' is that people are supposed to pay for your music, not nick it!

John's a supremely talented, kind and generous man who is always delighted when others perform his material. Do a real good guy a favour - BUY THE DAMNED CDs YOU SKINFLINT!!

Johnny

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST, GEST
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 03:08 PM

Hi, Pete ~ Thought I'd put a face to your friendship with John Conolly. :-)

John and Pete at the Alford Folk Club 20 Oct 1999

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 11:16 AM

I BIT MORE INFO.....
The most recent recording of Fiddler's Green is on "Trawlertown" which we recorded in 1998...it's available from "Little pot stove" and other CD emporiums on the web....
The song was played at Stan Hugill's funeral......a supreme honour for John and a fine epitaph for a great man of the sea...

One final thought...we were invited to sea music festival in Poland...it was wonderful to hear the chorus sung back at us in Polish...very moving....

Just had a brief visit with John during a quick trip to the UK...he's in fine form and doing quite a few UK festivals this summer...go see him and share his music...then buy him a pint......

Cheers to all my old mates out there in Mudcat Land...

Pete Sumner
California

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,GEST
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 08:52 AM

John Conolly wrote Fiddler's Green in 1966. :-)

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: BUTTERFLY
Date: 09 Jun 03 - 06:00 AM

I'd just like to thank the various people who responded to this thread. After getting the MIDI I spent some time earning the tune and words, but unfortunately as I arrived very late (as I had been at a table quiz until 11.30 pm) at a local sing-song last Friday, a girl (not a regular) was singing this song (which she did well by the way) so I will have to wait until another occasion!

I read recently in "The Living Tradition" (a British folk music magazine) about a John Connelly from Grimsby - I presume he is the same person who wrote "Fiddlers Green" though this is not stated.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Sooz
Date: 31 May 03 - 12:45 PM

John Conolly calls it his "funeral" song as it makes so many appearances in that setting. We sang it for the founder member of our Folk Club at his funeral.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: Bernard
Date: 31 May 03 - 11:15 AM

Not long ago I was asked to sing this at the beginning of a friend's funeral 'service'. It had been a favourite of his, and it set the tone for the whole 'service'.

This 'service' was not a religious ceremony, but a celebration of his life. The warmth and friendship was far better than any religious ceremony I've ever attended had generated - no 'bible bashing' or meaningless mumbo-jumbo describing someone else completely. Instead, a few amusing, poignant anecdotes about him were told, and a recording of Trevor reciting one of his own monologues was played - that was a little eerie!

At his wife's request, the curtains were not drawn at the end (it was a cremation) - instead, we all filed out quite happily, though emotionally, whilst I led everyone singing 'Rolling Home'...

I'd never experienced a funeral like it, and nor had any of the other mourners - but we all want our funeral to be like Trevor's!!

Sorry about the thread creep, but Fiddler's Green will always bring back fond memories of Trevor - it's a wonderfully emotive song.

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST, GEST
Date: 30 May 03 - 12:16 PM

This page has the lyrics, tabs, score and a MIDI file for Fiddler's Green. :-)

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 May 03 - 08:42 AM

Or even buy the CD 'On Humber's Brown Water' by Bill Meek and the composer, John Connolly, on which it's featured. I'm sure John would be very grateful. He's a super (and extremely talented) guy - do him a favour and reward him for his genius.
SJ

Subject: RE: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 03 - 06:08 AM

There is a little silver box at the top right here. Just type in "fiddler's green" below "Lyrics and knowledge search" and click the search button. From the results, click on the dt entry for "Fiddler's Green" and when you get the song up, click on the MIDI link at the bottom of the page.

Subject: FIDDLERS GREEN - MIDI WANTED
From: BUTTERFLY
Date: 30 May 03 - 05:59 AM

Does anyone know of a MIDI or other music file of the song "Fiddlers Green" (I already have the lyrics of this)? A search on the Internet recently did not seem to produce the former.