BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea

Subject: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: GUEST,A politiker's Memorial Weekend
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 06:04 PM

First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea next.

   Then France and Germany, because they did not support the Iraqi war,
   then Canada because of the "moron" remark,

   Then Chicago because it's full of Democrats.

   Bush wants regime change everywhere except where it is really needed;

   in the G** D*** White House.

   Happy Memorial Day.

   All those brave men died to save the stupidest, arrogent, and most disgusting
   administration on the face of the Earth.

   The only way to redeem America is to throw Bush and all his followers into the ocean    and ask fogiveness from the rest of the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 07:02 PM

I take it this is an opinion?

A

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 07:05 PM

Don't weep - ORGANIZE !! Attributed to Joe Hill.

Gareth.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 07:13 PM

Just woke up huh? Amazing how you came up with these conclusions so quickly.....................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 09:27 PM

heloo,usuallly,i,dont,anser,poloitacal,threads,but,
i,think,guest,is,right.
americangoverment,and,english,goverment.,
jusrt,like,to,make,trubble.

they,still,didnet,find,no,wepouns,in,iraq
and,they,told,us,how,dangerous,them,iraq,people,was.
big,load,of,shit,if,you,ask,me.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 09:49 PM

Not only that, GUEST, but he's arrogant enough to push for legislation that will in turn push the Amercian worker closer to Third World standard of living as wealth, which is solely created from labor, gets shifted to those who were born with capital.

This guy doesn't give a rip who he's stealing from... as long as he's stealing.

And, BTW, forget North Korea. They can perhaps fight back and bullies don't like that...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:06 PM

LOL! "Keep them dogies rollin', Rawhide!"

And don't count on relief too soon. Unbelievably stupid and arrogant empires have dominated the World for very lengthy periods in the past as well as today. One sometimes has to find a way to live a good and useful life in spite of it, specially when living in a peripheral economic and cultural colony of the big War Machine... (Canada, in my case.)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:18 PM

Well, Little Hawk, let me be perhaps the first US citizen to express my apologies.

Hey, we didn't think that such a radical reactionary would ever actually be in a position to have his lawyers steal a national election, but it happened.

And as a Green Party member and lookin' around at the level of dispair and chaos that the Bush administration has brought on the planet, I am guilt struck.

I offer no opologies other than all we were trying to do is to get into the friggin' '04 debates. That's all. But in trying to get our voices heard we have allowed the ultra right lunitics power and they don't give a tinker's dam about anything except wrecking America.

Oh, the shame.

I am humbly apologetic...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: TIA
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:27 PM

Don't apologize Bobert. You did your part. Now, all we're asking is that everyone put aside their knee jerk reactions (I know my knee has a bigger mind than my head, but not as large as my penis), and look at the world, look at America, ask themselves whether the founding fathers and mothers would approve, give an HONEST (not partisan) answer, and DO THE RIGHT THING NEXT ELECTION! (Okay, I admit, "the right thing" is not so obvious just yet, but "the wrong thing" is f---ing obvious if you just open your eyes and hearts.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:14 AM

Dear Green Party,
Please don't run Ralph Nader again. He isn't stupid, but he is impressively arrogant. I heard him speak once, at college. He went on for four and a half hours. (Well, actually, I left after four and a half hours. He was still going. For all I know he spoke all night.) When, after two hours, people began leaving, he mocked them for taking more interest in their classwork than in the Almighty Ralph. He devoted the first ninety minutes of his speech to his past triumphs, from "Unsafe at Any Speed" on.
Ralph Nader is a great reformer. He might make a good dictator, if he could get the military on his side. But he'd make a lousy president.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 04:39 AM

Fair question TIA:

"Now, all we're asking is that everyone......look at the world, look at America, ask themselves whether the founding fathers and mothers would approve, give an HONEST (not partisan) answer"

I doubt if they would dissaprove, taking into account that the founding fathers (were there any founding mothers?) you are referring to are those who wrote the declaration of independence and the constitution. Who firmly believed in the principle of what can be taken by force can be justifiably held, whose idea of freedom meant freedom of some but not others (many signatories were slave owners), whose ideas of equality applied only to themselves - certainly not to their slaves or to the indigenous population of the land they occupied.

By their (founding fathers) yardstick, not only would they approve, they'd be utterly amazed at the restraint being exercised.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:01 AM

What really angers me is the juvenile, tragic mouthiness of George W. currently imperilling the lives of students in Iran. It gives the regime in Iran every excuse to accuse the students of being in cahoots with the Americans, who are now next door. What on earth does he think he is doing? It is hard to imagine anything so stupid as to mouth off while the students are trying to carry out their own internal revolution. It requires absolute finesse on the part of outsiders, for anyone who remembers Tianamen Square. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:26 AM

And the people said "AMEN"

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 01:13 PM

Good point, Peter. But does anything that this administration has done that wasn't bungled from the start. There used to be time when Secretaries of State, with the president's leadreship, concentrated on foriegn affairs and diplomacy. Problem with this administration is that the Secretary of Defense (ha, make that *War*, in this case) has demoted Collin Powell to "House Negro" and he and Junior are locked in competition as to who can rattle the loudest sword.

Oh, if the world survives the Bush administration, which is doubtfull, historians are gonna have a ball with these folks, ahhhh, provided there is anything left of the 1st Ammendment that is...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:44 PM

Jeez, Teribus! Missed the point again!!

Sure, George Washington had wooden teeth and probably talked funny as a result, and several of them (Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, e.g.) couldn't keep their codpieces buttoned (not unlike a recent president), and some of them did own slaves--and there may not have been any "founding mothers" in evidence--but aren't you trying to put them down by judging them by the standards of current times rather than the standards of their own times? If you judge them by the standards of the century in which they lived, they were true visionaries. Contrary to what you seem to be implying, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were not written on toilet paper by a bunch of thugs. Flawed men they may have been ("Let he who is without sin. . . ."), but they wrote a couple of documents that have stood this country in good stead for over two centuries now.

Just because the current administration finds these documents damned inconvenient is no reason to condone wadding them up and flushing them down the toilet!

Don Firth
Regime change in 2004!

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 05:38 PM

Contrary to what you seem to be implying, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were not written on toilet paper by a bunch of thugs. Flawed men they may have been ("Let he who is without sin. . . ."), but they wrote a couple of documents that have stood this country in good stead for over two centuries now.

Just because the current administration finds these documents damned inconvenient is no reason to condone wadding them up and flushing them down the toilet!

It wouldn't matter one way or the other to Teribus if they did wad them up and flush them down the toilet. He doesn't live in the US, and he doesn't have to face the immediate consequences. What he probably doesn't realize is that he will have to face some consequences eventually. But I think he's deluding himself into believing that he will still be living in a soveriegn country after the Bush administration accomplishes its agendas. Hahahahahahaha.....

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 06:20 PM

Don:

It's hard fir T to see anyone's point since T is absorbed in the center of *T's* magnifying glass. You wanta play there... fine. I find it sterile and academic where hairs are split and and resplit and long reading assignments are given out as if everyone had time to read thousands and thousands of pages of pablum.

Yeah, peace ain't rocket science. Never has been and never will be.

Now I'm sure that T does not understand what Einstein said about knowledge when he said that "Imagination is more importantant than knowledge for knowledge represents waht is and imagination represents that which will be". Well, we can get bogged down in reams and reams of detail but the bottom line is that folks gotta quit killing each other. And that starts with the Bush foriegn policy which has death as its centerpiece. The US has killed more folks in this new century than the rest of the world combined. Hmmmmm? How difficult is this stuff, anyway?

Carol:

I agree with your conclusion about poor ol' T. What ever it is that T likes about the US is being run thru the sheader as we speak. We have robbers in power and they are ransacking and pillaging the treasury. They've even borrowed money that our kids and grandkids will work hard and long to repay so that they can rob and pillage that borrowed money.

I keep thinking that this is just a bad nightmare and that I will wake up and and the worst thing going on is a bunch of Rebubs trying to impeach Clinton fir getting laid. But at least there wasn't a major recession, no world war and a bunch of theives runnin' the joint.

Danged...

Beam me up...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Gareth
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 06:57 PM

Americans - Bush is your problem - I suggest you stop whinging and organise to dispose of him in 2004. Or is it the case of sit around a wail - Posting to the internet as a means of disposing of your concience, without actually having to do anything that might involve personal sacrifice, other than boycott "Nike"

Bobert - You voted Nader, a serial failure. Happy with the result ??

Gareth - who has just had to endure a 2 and a half hour meeting on election organisation.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 07:07 PM

Gareth:

Well, technically I voted for Gore, having brokered my vote. But, no, I am not at all happy about the overall effect the Green Party had on the cousre of history. I have written this in this thread or another and I think I'm speaking for every Green Party member when I say that, had we any inkling that the elcetion would be close enough for a Republican apoointed Supreme Court to select Bush, then none of would have voted for Nadar. Or very few. Like I've said before, our goal was to get 5% so that we could get another voice into the Presidential debates in '04 so people could hear a different message that the same old crap the Repubocrats have been serving up.

Hey, I'm no Gore fan, but I believe that had he been elected there never would have been a 9-11 and there wouldn't be this pillaging and looting going on by a bunch of rich rascals...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:25 PM

In a couple of magazines and news magazines, I have now read several times that Bush's spending this country into devastating debt is no accident or some other unplanned and disconcerting result, but that Bush, et al, is purposefully stripping the federal government of the social programs and safety nets that have been in place for the last 60 years, that by driving the government into virtual bankruptcy he/they want to force the states to take over the burdens of the people, that this is the natural outcome of ridding the country of 'big' government.

Might this be the case? And if it's true, what do you think we'll find down the road?

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 11:48 PM

Well, Ebbie, whereas Bush (like Reagun before him) talked about reducing the size of government both have increased government spending (mostly on Defense Dept. contractors).

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 03:33 AM

Exactly what point have I missed Don? I was merely answering the question posed by TIA.

By way of addressing some of the points you have raised:

I most definitely am not, ".. trying to put them down by judging them by the standards of current times rather than the standards of their own times?" - illustrated by the reference to "their (founding fathers) yardstick"

Even judged, "by the standards of the century in which they lived, they were true visionaries." True hypocrits more like, considering that both documents were written in plain english. The phrase, "All men are created equeal" meant the same then as it does now. Furthermore, you don't have to be that much of a visionary, to copy the works of others or to adopt their ideas. Your Declaration of Independence and your Constitution were loosely based on an older document, the Magna Carta, and updated massively according to the works of a Frenchman, Voltaire, and an Englishman, Thomas Payne.

Your, "Flawed men" and flawed they undoubtedly were (as you, yourself quite rightly quote "Let he who is without sin. . . ."), wrote a couple of documents that have stood the United States of America in good stead for over two centuries now - provided that you were the right sort of American.

As for your comment - "Just because the current administration finds these documents damned inconvenient is no reason to condone wadding them up and flushing them down the toilet!" - Apart from FDR's successive administrations, I don't think that there has been one administration that hasn't found those documents damned inconvenient at times.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 10:44 AM

The real truth is you Americans are in a position to do something about the Empire before it turns into a millstone around your neck and the necks of your children for centuries to come.

Take the English for example. Disliked (if not despised) by many of our fellow Isle inhabitants (even if we're all related), for the actions of arrogant, aggressive and self serving men (and one woman) over the last centuries.

None of these are my fault, or the fault of many English people alive today. My family were farmers and gardners, and probably were for many centuries previously. Simple working folk exploited and sometimes sent to die in conflicts they neither understood or started.

But there are plenty of people who will tar me with the same brush they reserve for oppressors like every monarch we've had for the last 1500 years or Cromwell or the army or big exploitative business or . . .

It's the little people who suffer in these situations, not George W., or Cheyney or Blair or Prescott or any of the other morons in charge. Believe me - they're quite comfortable. Ordinary Americans can stop this lunatic - and would be wise to do so because the centuries of hate him and his cronies will rack up for your innnocent children to deal with are a heavy price to pay indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: First Iraq, now Iran. Then North Korea
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 01:53 PM

Teribus, I'm not going to let you lure me into another off-the-point discussion. Thrash the founding fathers, the Declaration of Idependence, and the Constitution all you want, it won't change anything. Viva inconvenience!!

Ebbie, I've heard the same thing from a number of sources. It certainly explains a lot.

Don Firth