BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Dave H.
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:16 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Dave H.
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 12:18 PM

Sorry for the previous, I tend to hit enter which automatically sends.

A little bit of a drift but,

I used to get in trouble in school for using the English spellings for words such as color (colour). Although perfectly acceptable according to the dictionary the teachers didn't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 02:49 PM

Snuffy:
Why add an "s" when the number already tells you it's plural?

What reason then for the people who insist on mentioning a 'one pence coin', or 'one pence change'; the singular is (and always was) one penny!
Even worse is the description of the coin as 'One pee', in pre-decimal times we never described a penny as 'one dee'

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Denise:^), house-sitting
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 03:26 PM

Snuffy:
"Why add an "s" when the number already tells you it's plural?"

Oh, I see:
"I'll just wear this pair of sock..." --since pair means two...

I didn't mean that they should add the 's' to the five, but to the 'cent...'
(The alternative is intriguing:
"I've been waiting for three hour for you..."
"My six brother and I went to the fair together..."
"I bought a new pair of dulcimer hammer from the festival..."
"Please order ten gallon of ice cream for the party..."
Hmmmmm...!!!! )


Just heard another old favorite on t.v.--
"Wimble-TON." Grrrrrr...

Denise:^)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 04:05 PM

One of the best parts of the Oxford English Dictionary are the mini-essays given with many of the words. For example, we learn that "serviette" is vulgar usage (unnecessary use of a foreign word in place of table napkin).

Although many words end with the suffix -ize (see post above somewhere), the OED provides a mini-essay on analyse, which some Britons and all Americans spell analyze. Mentioned in the website under privatize (Noreen's post), here is part of the argument from the OED:
"Hence from the first it was commonly written in English analyze, the spelling accepted bt Johnson [he did much to regularize English spelling], and historically quite defensible. The objection that this assumes a Gk. G----- itself assumes that analyse is formed on the Gk. ----- , which is etymologically impossible and historically untrue [----; the Gk. words left out]."
In other words, better know your Greek before you argue about the spelling of -ize and -ise words!

Noreen, the OED website answered my question about why most Britons ignore the preferred -ize spellings in the OED: Lazy spellers plus a touch of Anti-Americanism.

Now if the OED will just put its complete edition on the net without the hefty charge for its use .....

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 02 Jul 03 - 04:55 PM

As I said, I learnt a lot from it, Q! I have always been told that the ...ize ending was an Americanisation.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:10 AM

Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

LASER

How can you make LAZER from it?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:35 AM

My pet peeve is Ibiza, pronounced as "eye-beetha" by the people who continue to bugger it up as a holiday resort, instead of "ee-beetha" as it should be.

A somewhat more upmarket one is that the "t" in Moet (of "et Chandon" fame) should not be silent - even though everyone seems to want to say "Mow - ay". The Moet family are not French, hence the "t" is pronounced.

See also Nigel's comment about the dreaded term "one pence piece" which saved me a lot of typing.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 06:31 PM

Ibiza- depends on where you come from. The th is almost entirely lacking in Latin American Spanish. Some Andalusians say only Castilians and fairies (oh, my! pinc!)lisp it.
Similarly, Aranjuez.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 08:10 PM

Just read today's (July 3, 2003) New York Times Email edition for today. I found this:

Today's Editorials
No Budging in California
"California's Republicans cannot continue to tow the party line on taxes if the state is to resolve its budgetary crisis."

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 09:50 PM

We host children from New York City each summer. We frequently hear them say, "I'm gonna axe my mommy...." In response, they hear us shriek, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Why would you want to do such a thing?!?!?!?" We get blank looks for a few days and eventually they figure it out....ASK....and NOT AXE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The kids who return year after year get a chuckle out of it each and every time!

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin Johnny
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:33 AM

One of our local pubs advertises 'Wensday night - Striper, one for the lads'. Hope the landlord can pull a pint better than he can spell.

Use of an apostrophe before the 's' in a plural (pea's, bean's etc.) gives me a serious attack of the vapours. Don't these buggers learn anything at school?

Also, those serial abusers of the English language, TV Announcers, who describe persons/things at risk as 'vunerable' do me in.
SJ

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:46 AM

From American Heritage Dictionary

Ax, a common nonstandard variant of ask, is often identified as an especially salient feature of African American Vernacular English. While it is true that the form is frequent in the speech of African Americans, it used to be common in the speech of white Americans as well, especially in New England. This should not be surprising since ax is a very old word in English, having been used in England for over 1,000 years. In Old English we find both ascian and acsian, and in Middle English both asken and axen. Moreover, the forms with cs or x had no stigma associated with them. Chaucer used asken and axen interchangeably, as in the lines "I wol aske, if it hir will be/To be my wyf" and "Men axed hym, what sholde bifalle," both from The Canterbury Tales. The forms in x arose from the forms in sk by a linguistic process called metathesis, in which two sounds are reversed. The x thus represents (ks), the flipped version of (sk). Metathesis is a common linguistic process around the world and does not arise from a defect in speaking. Nevertheless, ax has become stigmatized as substandard—a fate that has befallen other words, like ain't, that were once perfectly acceptable in literate circles.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:58 AM

Hey,
Thanks for the history...that's interesting!

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:35 PM

African-Americans, as slaves, got much of their English from their masters and overseers, many of whom spoke in the dialects they and their ancestors brought from 'the old country', hence ax for ask, etc., pointed out above.
Spelling was standardized largely through the efforts of Samuel Johnson, the 18th century lexicographer and his followers, but until formal schooling eroded the dialects, the old words persisted. And still persist among those of us who enjoy the language in all of its parts.

Always wondered why 'am't I' never became popular for Am I not.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 02:36 PM

Sorry I don't have a proper reference for this -- apparently a documentary has just been made about kids entered in a spelling bee. It's supposed to be quite good. At the end, there is a sign held up to the winner that says "Congradulations!"

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:07 PM

Hey All,

Thanks for the history behind the use of ax/awe for ask, it was a different angle for me to ponder. I am seeing the use of ax/axe for ask as a dialect, in a sense, of these young girls from the inner city neighborhoods of NYC. Something gets lost in their language...at least for me. Take a look and see what you think....


The Lord's Prayer
In Ebonics


EBONICS                               ENGLISH

Big Daddy's Rap                      The Lord's Prayer

Yo, Bid Daddy upstairs,               Our Father, who art in heaven
You be chillin                        Hallowed be thy name
So be yo hood                         Thy Kingdom come
You be sayin' it, I be doin' it       Thy will be done
In this here hood and yo's            On earth as it is in heaven
Gimme some eats                      Give us this day our daily bread
And cut me some slack, Blood          And forgive us our trespasses
Sos I be doin' it to dem             As we forgive those who trespasses
dat diss me                            against us
Don't be pushing me into no jive      And lead us not into temptation
And keep dem Crips away               But deliver us from evil
'Cause you always be da Man.          For thine is the Kingdom, the power
                                        and the glory, forever and ever.

Aaa-men                               Amen


A whole different world....no?   :)

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 10:58 PM

What I always wondered was what comes after Ebonics?

Ebmathics: 2 n 1 Ekals 4 (pronounced "FO")?

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:21 PM

I'm an editor, brought up in England now living next door to Uncle Sam and trying to save Canada from throwing the cultural identity away. Here are some I see and hear regularly:

Mother's Day. It's not possessive, it's descriptive, so no apostrophe please!

barbeque should that be pronounced bar-beek?

Ceasar salad,

and of course war-chesta-shigher sauce , no wonder so many people just call it Lea & Perrin's!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 01:47 PM

TBPL: Mother's Day seems fine to me if it is the day I give a gift to my mother, however, if I accept that everyone celebrates on the same day then Mothers' Day would be correct. In either case an apostrophe is required. Of course, as an editor you may wish to save on ink, or column inches, by omitting as many apostrophes as possible.
Of course it has been commercialized over time. I remember it as 'Mothering Sunday' which was as much about giving thanks for 'Mother Church'.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:46 PM

"Caesar" salad was first concocted in Mexico by a chef named César (pronounced Says'-are).

Both the OED and Merriam Webster's give barbeque three syllables. The word is not French. Some people credit it to the New World Spanish word, barbacoa (a framework for supporting meat over a fire) but originally the word was probably Caribbean Indian. An early example from the OED suggests this:
Hickeringill, "Jamaica," 1661- "Some are slain, and their flesh forthwith Barbecu'd and eaten." Adair, 1775, "American Indians," spelled it the way we do, barbecue.

As for Worse ter sauce, most of us over here use Heinz.

I suppose Big Pink would pronounces niche "neesh," in the English Quebec-Ottawa dialect. Cotgrave introduced the word to English in his dictionary or 1611, using Italian nicchia as the root word. His friend Jonson used it in a play three years later, and it has been nitch ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: LilyFestre
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:25 PM

Chief,

LOL...dat b 2 funee!   ;)

Lily =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 09:04 AM

Q, Big Pink's point is that barbecue is spelt with a c not a q.

And niche is pronounced in the french way (neesh) in the UK by most people, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin Johnny
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:04 AM

As Worcestershire is pronounced 'Wustersher' here. Except us posh 'uns up in't North call it Lea 'n' Perrin's!

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 01:13 PM

Expresso instead of eSpresso

Calvary instead of CAValry

Joolary instead of jewelry

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 12:38 PM

Pronuciations - 'Nucular' instead of 'nuclear', 'a-loo-min-um' instead of 'al-yoo-min-yum' (sorry guys, I guess it's the old UK/USA thang again!). Glottal stops (e.g. le'er instead of letter, ta'oo instead of tattoo) which have become far more common since they started that showing that bloody 'East Enders' drivel on the telly. And worst of all, the use of an 'f' or a 'v' where there's a 'th' (e.g. 'fink' instead of 'think', or 'wiv' instead of 'with') - more foul 'East Enders' influence, and sheer unadulterated idleness on the part of the perpetrator.

Spelling - 'are' instead of 'our', 'maintainance' instead of 'maintenance' and 'fourty' instead of 'forty'.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:13 PM

Flamingo instead of Flamenco

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:22 PM

Oh, and Webster, I have been a Southerner all my life, and I do not warsh, rinch, or bresh, neither do I drink alkyhol. (I have been known to wash, brush, and have a glass of wine.) However, once in awhile I do have an extry something or other, just for fun. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:18 PM

Kim C, seldom heard "warsh" in the south. It shows up in a lot of places. I catch myself warshing, which I could have obtained from either north of England or Irish grandparents on one side, but very doubtfully from Spanish and Am. Indian on the other. I am pretty sure that it came over from the north of England, but need someone from the UK to verify.

Noreen caught the barbeque, which is a common way of spelling it here (Canadian English, a year or two of compulsory French in the west which is soon lost or twisted into something that is wrong in both languages). A bit of attempted humor which went awry- oh, well. Has anyone brought up aw-ree yet?

Odd how many English ignore the Oxford dictionary; seemingly "neesh" is another example.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Kim C
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 05:41 PM

I think I remember my granny saying "warsh." She was from West Virginia, which is or isn't part of the South, depending on who you ask. She lived in Indiana for a number of years.

We do see the abbreviation "BBQ" or "bar-b-q" a lot...

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 09:28 AM

Regarding the nuclear/nucular problem:

There are many words in English that end with -ular and only a few with -lear, and there is only one other (that I can find on my CD-ROM American Heritage Dictionary) where -lear is pronounced as two syllables: cochlear, adj. Pertaining to the cochlea, an inner-ear organ.

A few of the more common ones: angular, cellular, circular, consular, curricular, granular, insular, jocular, jugular, ocular, particular, perpendicular, popular, regular, secular, singular, spectacular, vascular, ventricular. (And then there are the words that can be built up from these: triangular, multicellular, etc.)

So if you can't forgive "nucular" at least you ought to be able to understand it.

I predict "nucular"--at least the pronunciation--will become more accepted and will be added to dictionaries in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 11:29 AM

Nucleus has been around since about 1700, spawning nucleic, nuclear, nucleobranch and other words used in the sciences. I doubt that it will change. The ending is -ar, not ear, so it is like some of the others- granule, cellule, etc.

Have yet to meet with a perpendicule, but it has a nice sound to it. Hmmm, will have to find a use for it.

Nucule is a word used by botanists. It probably has appeared as the adjective, nucular in their writings.

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:46 PM

Jim, I reckon you're right about the mispronunciation 'nucular' probably becoming the accepted norm. Guess I'll just have to wind my neck back in and accept progress (if that's what it is!).

I'm sure the adage is true that Britain and the USA are two nations divided by a common language, but it all adds to the fun! Gives us summat (Northern-England dialect meaning 'something') to poke each other with!

Cheers & Beers,
Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: Commonly misspelled/mispronounced words
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:58 PM

Odd how many English ignore the Oxford dictionary;...

Does anybody or any nation take their pronunciation from a dictionary?
Dictionaries follow the language, they don't lead. Or are you saying, Q, that we should take our pronunciation from the OED?

I suppose France may be officially an exception, with the Academie Francais- but they still cant control how ordinary people speak.