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Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond

kendall 26 Jun 03 - 10:44 PM
Sorcha 26 Jun 03 - 10:46 PM
kendall 26 Jun 03 - 10:48 PM
Bill D 26 Jun 03 - 11:19 PM
Joe Offer 26 Jun 03 - 11:30 PM
Rolfyboy6 26 Jun 03 - 11:40 PM
NicoleC 27 Jun 03 - 12:06 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Jun 03 - 12:16 AM
GUEST 27 Jun 03 - 12:23 AM
GUEST,disappointed with mudcatters 27 Jun 03 - 12:27 AM
Dani 27 Jun 03 - 03:42 AM
Greg F. 27 Jun 03 - 07:29 AM
Greg F. 27 Jun 03 - 07:31 AM
Amos 27 Jun 03 - 10:23 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Jun 03 - 01:04 PM
beadie 27 Jun 03 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,2 06 Jul 03 - 04:24 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 06 Jul 03 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,2 06 Jul 03 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,pdc 06 Jul 03 - 09:04 PM
Deda 06 Jul 03 - 09:11 PM
Alba 06 Jul 03 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,2 06 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM
toadfrog 06 Jul 03 - 10:35 PM
X 07 Jul 03 - 07:35 PM
michaelr 07 Jul 03 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,misophist 07 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM
LadyJean 08 Jul 03 - 01:29 AM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jul 03 - 04:41 PM
Greg F. 09 Jul 03 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,2 09 Jul 03 - 12:02 PM
DougR 10 Jul 03 - 12:03 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 10 Jul 03 - 02:30 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jul 03 - 03:57 PM
Kim C 10 Jul 03 - 05:51 PM
katlaughing 10 Jul 03 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,2 10 Jul 03 - 09:57 PM
michaelr 10 Jul 03 - 10:13 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jul 03 - 11:43 PM
GUEST,2 11 Jul 03 - 10:48 AM
Kim C 11 Jul 03 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,B 11 Jul 03 - 12:28 PM
beadie 11 Jul 03 - 12:37 PM
Greg F. 11 Jul 03 - 12:42 PM
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Subject: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:44 PM

Died just short of 100 years old. Now he and Lester can get together for some hog jowls and collard greens.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:46 PM

That Bas***d finally died? Wow and great. That is all I can say. Good Riddance.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 10:48 PM

No need to sugar coat it!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:19 PM

...Lester...now Strom? there are forces at work....WAY too late, but working


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:30 PM

Well, he did make it to 100. He was born December 5, 1902, Edgefield, South Carolina. He was elected to the U.S. Senate in 1954 - by a write-in vote. I think it wasn't until last December theat he retired. Maybe the death of Thurmond and Lester Maddox will mark the end of the era of intolerance.
I wonder why they were the way they were.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:40 PM

The death at great age of people like Strom Thumond, Lester Maddox, and Francisco Franco is an argument for the lack of a loving deity. Has any one driven a stake through his heart to make sure? I'm sorry I'm so disgusted and crude about this, Thurmond caused my heart to burn for decades. Joe Offer said it best.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 12:06 AM

They were they way they were because that's what they were taught to be "truth" as kids and they never questioned it. Unfortunately, that's not a failing limited to political figures.

While I took great joy in Thurmond's retirement, I don't find any joy in death -- anyone's death. Although it DOES make me wish I believed in a Judgement Day :)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 12:16 AM

Joe - many today - would continue to label them rational realists- not intolerant icons.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 12:23 AM

Remember, the good die young.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,disappointed with mudcatters
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 12:27 AM

The glee that the posters here seem to find in death is a bit appalling.

It would appear that the only reason for starting and posting to such threads is to vent a little hate. I think such threads belong in the BS section.

I also disagree with the politics of these men, but I don't feel the need to gloat over the fact that they are dead.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Dani
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 03:42 AM

I don't know if it's so much gloating in his particular death as much as glorying in the possibilities for the future. He was a little tough to explain to my kids.

Why don't you help us understand by telling us some of the good he did in his long life? As I understand it, that's the point of a thread such as this.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:29 AM

Its not the politics of bastards like Thurmond that's the problem- its their morality- or lack thereof- their opportunism, hypocrisy and demagoguery. Good riddance to bad rubbish. One down- but there's still plenty of these poisonous f$$kers around making trouble.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:31 AM

P.S. -Doesn't this all belong in the "Devil Racism" thread?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 10:23 AM

Guest -- surely you aren't disappointewd with ALL mudcatters? Or was it really just one or two? I'm afraid I'm disappointed int he accuracy of your communication, really. So sorry some of our group here didn't live up to your standards of high moral restraint -- it's not a specialty of ours, y'know.

A


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 01:04 PM

Dear Disappointed,

Are you requesting hypocrisy instead of truth about openly held opinions on such emotional issues as politics? Strom Thurmond was a thorn in the side of many Americans, a boil on the ass of the senate, probably a migraine for politicians from other nations as well. For far too many years. We agonized as that old man was again and again able to sideline or dilute legislation that was important to moving beyond his racist, bigotted ways. We were glad he finally left the senate, and just for good measure, we're glad he quitted this earth. He should have taken Jessie Helms with him.

These kinds of politicians generate fervent hatred from those they choose to oppress. I posted a link some time ago (that no longer works--the site needs a password now) for a poem by Audre Lorde for Jesse Helms. It's very frank, quite graphic. But I post it with the reminder that people were just as angry at Thurmond:

    Jessehelms

    I am a Black woman
    writing my way to the future
    off a garbage scow knit from moral fibre
    stuck together with jessehelms'
    come where Art is a dirty word
    scrawled on the wall
    of Bilbo's memorial outhouse
    and obscenity is catching
    even I'd like to hear you scream
    ream out your pussy
    with my dildo called Nicaragua
    ram Grenada up your fig hole
    till Panama runs out of you
    like Savimbi a-flame.

    But you prefer to do it
    on the senate floor
    with a sackful of paper pricks
    keeping time to the tune
    of a 195 million dollar
    military band
    safe-sex dripping from your tongue
    into avid senatorial ear-holes
    later you'll get yours
    behind the senate toilets
    where they're waiting for you jessehelms
    the white boys with their pendulous rules
    bumping against the rear door of Europe

    spread-eagled across the globe
    their crystal balls poised over Africa
    ass-up for old glory
    your turn now jessehelms
    come on      it's time
    to lick the handwriting
    off the walls.


    Copyright © 1990 by Audre Lorde.


There are some politicians who are so abhorent to those who oppose them that it makes you wonder about the combined intelligence level of those who would (re)elect such individuals. (This is why I'm pretty certain the U.S. is okay--we did, after all ELECT Al Gore. The Supremes appointed the idiot who is in office enriching himself and his friends today).

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: beadie
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 02:22 PM

I wonder if it is perhaps more than mere coincidence that Mr. Thurmond died on the very day that the Supreme Court overturned the Texas anti-sodomy statute?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 04:24 PM

Thurmond, in fact, did serve a purpose. He occupied a senate seat for decades, preventing real bastards from getting power.
Would you really like to talk about senators Allen Ginsberg, Richard Daly or O.J Simpson?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 08:19 PM

As I said in another thread about Thurmond, my understanding was that he moved away from his postwar segregationalist position, or at least did so far more than many others - notably for instance Lott, who was booted out for revering specifically the 1948 unreconstructed Thurmond.

If Thurmond did moderate his line in any degree, I'd be happy to allow him some credit for that, as I would anyone who showed signs of thinking for himself. As Nicole, I think, might have been suggesting, there is no shortage of people who swallow whatever they are told without question.

I'd be happier if the energies now being expended on Thurmond's death had been going into building a nation in which Bush Junior and his obscene retinue could never have got near the levers of power. A president who authorises secret military trials for civilians, with the court appointing their defence teams, and with the prospect of death sentences being handed down, is massively more dangerous than anything that Thurmond had become. Yet among those celebrating Thurmond's demise there will be plenty who, when the chips are down, would salute the flag and support the president, on the principle of "my country right or wrong."

(Just to be clear, I've not Joe Offer in my sights here. His point could not have been more fairly put.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 08:54 PM

Your version of Lott's fall from grace is origional, not factual. He said something close to " It would be fun to see what would have happened if you (Dixicrats) had won". Said after a few beers at the birthday party for a 100 year old man. Not hateful. Not mean. Not racist. More playful than anything else I can think of.

The country will never unify behind an extreme Liberal. This is (and never has been) a Liberal country. All people of good will should support Pres. George W. Bush, as the conservatives supported Jack Kennedy. Lobby for policy changes if you feel they are not to your liking.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:04 PM

Wish I could provide a link to this, but can't -- there was an editorial cartoon when Thurmond died. Shows Thurmond at the entrance to heaven. God is black, and a sign on the wall says, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone we choose."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Deda
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:11 PM

Guest2, since when did ordinary folks lobbying carry any weight with the current resident of the White House? The only people he listens to are "His" people, the extreme right wing and the extremely wealthy. And this country will never unify behind him, either. Those of us who actually take some pride in terms like "liberal" (comes from the latin word for free) think he's lower than a snake's belly, to put it very gently.

You wrote, "This is (and never has been) a Liberal country." Interesting choice of typo. It wasn't founded to be a Born Again Christian nation, either -- the founders were fleeing religious oppression, not looking for its next venue. (Yes, I know they were not angels on that score themselves.)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Alba
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 09:40 PM

Your version of Lott's remarks are amusing Guest 2 but unfortunately not accurate. Lott lost his job, not because of a a wishy washy wistful remark, but because He voiced support for a Rascist!
If you wish to read his actual speech click here Trent's Lot
A:>)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:30 PM

Thanks for recognizing it as a typo. How do you spell dyslexia?

Lott did not lose his job as Senator. The Repubs. replaced him as majority leader with a medical doctor. One who flies to Africa and does free surgery on Black people, women and children included. As a Repub., I am much more proud of this choice than I was of Lott.

I read the quote Alba cited. It is not exactly what you think nor is it exactly what I said. Still very benign if you choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.

For what it is worth, 80% of Americans respect G.W., 20% hate him. Much better than anyone since Kennedy. I can always be wrong, but so can everyone else. Give the hate a rest . Please!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: toadfrog
Date: 06 Jul 03 - 10:35 PM

For once, I agree with Fionn. I wish there had never been a Strom Thurmond, but in fact he did change with the times, and there is no reason to dump this load of hate on the old man. Hate is ugly. This is an ugly thread. And as I think Fionn also remarked, if you gotta hate somebody, there are so many more deserving candidates these days.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: X
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:35 PM

For what it's worth, He served with the 82 Airborne and was there on D-Day where he earned 5 Battle Stars, 13 Medals and was awarded a Purple Heart. Like I said, for what it's worth.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 07:46 PM

Guest 2 -- HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

All people of good will should unite behind Bush? God forbid.

And to name Ginsberg in the same sentence with Daly and Simpson is absolutely ludicrous.

Go get your head examined!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,misophist
Date: 07 Jul 03 - 10:34 PM

A paraphrase from Voltaire: All I ask from Nature's God is a little farm in the country, well populated with tall, stately trees. That would make me happy. But if that god would see me truly joyous, he would show me my enemies, hanging from those trees.

Joy that an evil force is gone from the world is exactly the same as joy that a man has died. To imagine otherwise is hypocrasy. Nil nisi bonum mortuis. But only if they were good.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: LadyJean
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 01:29 AM

Thurmond outlived his era. It happens. Apparently somebody did his voting for him during his last few years in the Senate.
I remember when Franco died. The man had a touching faith in the afterlife. His doctors devoted a ridiculous amount of time and effort to keeping him alive. For months afterward, "Saturday Night Live" gleefully annonced that Franco had been declared terminally dead. He was postponing the inevitable. I hope there's an afterlife. I hope in that afterlife Adolph Hitler gets to hear Jesse Norman sing Wagner. I hope Strom Thurmond will hear the first Black president of the United States take the oath of office someday.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 03 - 04:41 PM

GUEST 2 has some bogus numbers. Go ask someone who isn't a Republican about Dubya's "approval" rating. It ain't no 80%!

There is a point to be taken there, though. That someone who represents a minority can hold the majority hostage. Thurmond (and Helms) did that again and again with their Senatorial seniority. And Bush is doing so now, thanks to the Supremes.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 06:50 AM

Those that maintain that Ol' Strom redeemed himself might want to read THIS as an intro to the large body of fact that indicates he did nothing of the sort.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 12:02 PM

Please, Stilly River Sage. I said "respect". It is not the polar opposite of "hate", but nothing really is.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: DougR
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 12:03 AM

Wow! Now we know what liberal compassion is, right!

DougR


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 02:30 PM

Guest 2, I think it's a bit harsh to accuse me of veering towards originality at the expense of facts. In my case I was relying on what was said. In your case you've rushed to defend a quote you fabricated from thin air.

Just for the record, the words that cost Lott his job went like this: "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years."

It is a matter of record that Thurmond's presidential campaign was based on a segregationist manifesto (a position I think he moved away from). So in what sense were Lott's remarks not racist, but merely "playful"? Or does it depend on what colour you are?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:57 PM

"Respect" may or may not be a polar opposite of "hate," GUEST2, but I wasn't arguing that. I was arguing that 80% of the American public doesn't "respect" Dubya. 80% is way too high.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:51 PM

Was it Thurmond's fault that he kept getting re-elected?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:29 PM

Might as well ask if it was the shrub's fault he stole the election...


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 09:57 PM

One last humble try, Stilly River Sage. 20% of the American people hate Pres. George W. Bush, and 80% do not. For the cause of unity, I retreat that far and no more. The real story of this thread is how much hatred is shown to the late Strom Thurmond. What if one of you were to die (eventually we all do) and St. Peter pulls out a scroll of this thread. Want your part read out loud?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: michaelr
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 10:13 PM

"Hate" of Bush is not the issue. The number of Americans who question the Resident's policies, at the time of the pre-war peace protests, stood at about 45%. With the Iraquagmire growing deeper every day, it's bound to increase.

DougR, care to sit in on this thread?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 11:43 PM

GUEST2, you have to believe in that stuff to worry about it. I don't, so I don't. Your binaries are annoying and inaccurate. That's the point we've been trying to make and you're ignoring.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,2
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 10:48 AM

No mention of Bush was called for here in the first place. My point: Thurmond is dead, your time to judge him is over. Bye


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 11:23 AM

I meant that as a serious question. Thurmond was in office because the voters of South Carolina put him there, time after time. I'm assuming he didn't run unopposed.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: GUEST,B
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 12:28 PM

DougR: Bring a flak jacket, they are waiting for ya.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: beadie
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 12:37 PM

Kim C:


   In some of his races, he was, to all intents and purposes, unopposed. That notwithstanding, he kept winning for the same reason so many long term politicians win.

They are re-elected because (to paraphrase H L Mencken) it is impossible to underestimate the intelligence of the American electorate.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Former Senator Strom Thurmond
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 12:42 PM

Thurmond was in office because the voters of South Carolina put him
there, time after time.


Kim, do keep that in mind next time you reflexively leap to the defense of the "new" non-racist South.


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