BS: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:39 PM

i sterilise me bottles with alcohol- still alive!- also its not stored in'em very long- just yer average session length!!

like the idea above about putting tinned fruit in them too.

the wide mouth ones are also very handy as night time urinals when camping.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:39 PM

John basically has it. It's a scaremongering rip off, designed to make you go and buy a new bottle every time you need a drink. If the chemicals in the bottle leached out after a while, why does my 'fresh' water bottle have on it a use by date some 3 years in the future? Just how long IS a while?

Humans weren't designed to deal with sterile water, we need the odd bug now and then.

If you think you aren't getting 'clean' water, just have a look at what they drink in parts of Africa - where clean just means the cow hasn't crapped in it this morning and water mostly means mud.

LTS

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:34 PM

i sterilise me bottles with alcohol- still alive!- also its not stored in'em very long- just yer average session length!!

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:17 PM

Bottled,water,is,the,biggest,rip-off,
i,have,ever,heard,of,complete,con.

anyway,i,reckon,the,stress,of,worrying,about,
stuff,like,this,does,more,harm,than,the,chemicals,
in,the,bottle!

when,you,think,of,air,polution,chemicals,in,food,
radon,and,stuff,like,that.
of,you,worried,about,them,all,you,would,not,
eat,drink,or,breathe!

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:08 PM

Yes, Noreen, thanks, it's the water, and it's fine handled as is.

~S~

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Gareth
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 06:58 PM

Drink Water ? Only when infused (Mashed) with Malt, boiled with hops, and mixed with yeast.

I suspect that we are being conned with this. My boat contains a plastic tank containing 5 Gallons. The odd dash of Milton, and Sodium BiSulpate tablet keeps it potable.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 01:53 PM

I bought a small plastic bottle of Evian for 85¢ back in 1995 or 96. Wash it along with the other dishes, refill it with tap-water, and stick it in the fridge, then grab it when I go out.

Still using it. Still alive.

Ever notice that "Evian" spelled backwards is "naïve?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 01:51 PM

Susan, is the sulphur smell coming from your water, or from what you clean the bottles with? If it's the water, I would store it in glass in the fridge for the 24 hrs needed, and only decant into plastic when you need it.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Noreen
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 01:44 PM

Plasticisers which keep the plastic of such bottles 'soft' are known to leach out over time, particularly as the plastic ages and starts to break down.

These compounds (phthalates) have been shown to have carcinogenic and reproductive effects on rats, but tests on marmosets have not shown the same results, so we are told that these compounds are safe for human consumption (as humans are closer to marmosets than to rats).
Health Effects of DEHP in Rodents Unlikely to be Relevant to Humans Shows New Research

Rate of leaching into water (and water-based drinks such as Coke) is pretty low, in new bottles. However, phthalates are more soluble in alcohol than in water, so I would NOT store alcohol in a plastic bottle, Mr Happy.   [I blame a bad hangover on drinking Japanese duty-free whisky which came in a plastic bottle.... nothing to do with the whisky, of course!]

I do re-use plastic bottles for carrying water though, but would put fresh water in every day.



Pthalates Information Centre Europe (say their product is the greatest thing since sliced bread)

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 01:39 PM

I don't see "proper sterilization" as a huge problem. Except for the threads and the cap, it's no different than any re-usable beverage container. To clean the cap & threads and the bottle, dump a capful of bleach into it, fill the rest of the way with warm water, unscrew the cap a bit so when you tip it upside down, the solution leaks out. Rinse them really well. I haven't heard of Rapaire's method of rinsing with a baking soda solution, but it makes sense.

I don't see how toxic whatever would come out of the bottle if you aren't getting the plastic too hot or using some chemical that would break it down.

I re-use the big bottles all the time. I mix lemonade or iced tea or just store nice filtered (I've got mega-manganese here - not a health hazard, but the water can look and taste funny) tap water. I use them to water my plants and sometimes add plant food.   There are spigot things with sharp ends you can drive into the ground that will slowly drip water to your plant roots while you're away. I mix clothing dyes and cleaning solutions. You can remove the cap, cut the top part off, shove it upside down into the bottom, tape it, pour in some cheap beer and trap slugs. I've used the bottoms to start seeds in the spring. If you use clear bottles, you can cut the middle out and use the top to make a little greenhouse. I've put a bit of sponge and some water into the caps and set them on the window sill to make ladybug watering stations in the winter. I think you can make a bird feeder with a bottle, pizza pan and some dowell rods.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 01:15 PM

I buy (or beg used-once ones), use them till the shrink-wrap or paper label on a few of them is funky enough to be unpleasant, then pitch all of that brand's empties and start on another brand. I save most of the tops as these get lost so easily, and I always save the pull-spout ones which seem to come only in two main size/types and are thus pretty interchangeable.

I rinse them with plain hot water for most washings, and periodically I round all of them up and give them a quick soapy bleach job.

We have farm water here-- pretty good farm spring water-- and I refill them, cap them loosely, let them sit in the fridge 24 hours to let the occasional light sulphur smell go off, and keep them refrigerated. The only bug that our water ever has had is a kind of rust-teria that can form over a long, long period of time, and we never get sick on our water. (We bring in bottled drinking water for MudGathers in case of the odd dodgy stomach here or there).

Anything else here requires warmth to develop-- so they stay cold till used, then at most they sit in the car 24 hours if I've gfrabbed nmore than I need.

Another trick (for road carbs) is to put canned fruit cocktail into those wider-mouthed fruit-juice bottles you get in vending machines. I fill the washed-out bottles 7/8 full (get the restaurant size can) and freeze them. I take them along frozen, and by the time I need one, it's thawed. Much better for you than juice, and easy to suck down in the car.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:45 PM

Right. Who are the "researchers at the University of Idaho"? I just LOVE such attributions!

I refill and reuse them over and over. If they get bad looking I recycle them or use them to water plants, etc.

Keep them clean, rinse them periodically with a *weak* solution of chlorine bleach, rinse again with baking soda, let them air dry.

They WILL break down in time, but so will I and so will everything else.

I'm not dead yet, and my toxin levels are way, way low.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:37 PM

A bit of thread drift... Most good backpacking outfitters have plastic bottles that are specifically meant to be used repeatedly for water and other liquids. If you have good water anyway, it seems like it would make more sense to buy some of those and just keep filling them yourself.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:27 PM

And:

The Canadian Bottled Water Association advises against reusing the containers altogether. It says the containers are made for single use and should be recycled afterward, not reused. People would be unable to properly sterilize the bottles at home, and the industry doesn't evaluate the safety of the bottles for multiple uses, said Elizabeth Griswold, executive director of the Canadian Bottled Water Association. "I would assume a study done on reuse would be redundant, because that's not their purpose," she said. But while it is for different reasons, Griswold agrees with researchers that it isn't a good idea to use the same bottle repeatedly. "All I would be able to say is that it's not something we recommend."

Now there's a neutral source with specific info for ya! People who sell the bottled water are sure to know what they're selling (I mean talking about)!

~Susan

~S~

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:21 PM

Here's an example of the kind of unsupported crap that's circulating out there.   This one is from an online school newsletter for parents, with no source or further data:

New research finds it's not a good idea to reuse disposable water bottles because of dangerous bacteria and potentially toxic plastic compounds found in them. Researchers in Calgary found bacteria in water bottles used by children "that would prompt health officials to issue boil-water advisories if the samples had come from tap water." Will frequently washing the bottles help? Not according to a study conducted in the United States. Researchers at the University of Idaho found that repeated cleanings could cause toxic chemicals to migrate from the bottles into the liquid contents. The material used to make single-use water bottles can break down over time leaving behind contaminants that in high quantities are suspected to cause cancer. You may want to think twice before reusing your water bottle!

It's scary, but what I want to know is, is the plastic somehow different from that we drink other beverages from?

~S~

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 12:14 PM

From personal experience of working in a Water Company Laboratory, and on ocasion analysing bottled springwater in the UK, I would say you are likely to find fewer microbes in one re-filled with tap water than in the original contents.
I do not see ANY problem from the bottle itself as long as it is not internally scratched, leaving a site for debris to collect and harbour bugs.
I know nothing about the levels of treatment applied to drinking water in the USA, but if it hasn't killed you yet, I see no reason for it to do so when taken from a bottle!
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:21 AM

all very handy. at festivals etc, i often have my own bar. this consists of 2 plastic water bottles, which can fit very neatly into the large pocket on my guitar case.

one contains still caledonian whine [40%] & the other usually has still dry italian vermouth [14%]. yippee!

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: Fortunato
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 09:10 AM

I just run them through the dishwasher, am I going to get warts or something?

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:28 AM

Well, I bleach mine periodically.... is that what's the problem, the soap and bleach?

~S~

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 08:20 AM

I'd not heard that!!! I reuse the bottles all the time. Maybe they are just covering their backs - I suppose common sense says that its only as hygienic as you make it. I can't see there being anything beyone that.

Subject: RE: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:55 AM

(oh crap, I forgot the BS tag again, sorry)

Subject: Re-Using Plastic Springwater Bottles
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Jul 03 - 07:54 AM

Can anyone explain to me in simple English why a bottle holding "pure" water that's "safe" to drink would deteriorate so that refilling and re-using it would be dangerous? Isn't this the same plastic used to hold Coca Cola, and isn't that a lot more corrosive than the water they're selling me???? Am I missing something, or is this a fear tactic designed to keep me paying for more and more plastic? Cuz, it's the convenience of the container I'm paying for-- the cheap portability of the water-- not the water.

~Susan