Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight

Subject: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:34 PM

From the BBC website:

20:00 Mike Harding

2/2. The second special programme celebrating the forty-fifth anniversary of the groundbreaking 'Radio Ballad' broadcasts. Mike Harding devotes his show to a full re-broadcast of a digitally enhanced version of Peggy Seeger and Ewan MacColl's prize-winning radio ballad.

Singing The Fishing

This hour-long show, produced by the legendary Charles Parker, was the third Radio Ballad, originally broadcast in August 1960, and tells the story of three generations of herring fishermen in East Anglia and Scotland. It hasn't been heard in full on BBC Radio for 15 years.

Seeger, MacColl and Parker's ballads pioneered new ways of storytelling using a mixture of songs, speech and location sound, and the series of eight ballads, broadcast from 1958 to 1964, revolutionised radio production. Tonight's programme will also include the opportunity to win a full set of the eight radio ballads, which are available on the Topic record label.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:39 PM

Listen live- click here

I'm off to buy tapes.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:39 PM

It would be nice if the BBC prefaced the broadcast with an apology for sacking Charles Parker!

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 02:39 PM

hEloo,Noreen,it,sounds,good
I,will,lissun,to,it.john

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:00 PM

Starting now

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:01 PM

its,on,now.john

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 03:59 PM

So,how has BBC radio progressed in the intervening 43 years, in relation to music, history, or indeed anything else?

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:50 AM

I've already got the CD - isn't this a waste of a programme's folk broadcasting? Cheap cop-out time? Wouldn't it have been possible to pay tribute, and maybe even add something in the way of comment, in less time? Or even, if enough worthwile comments could be made, the whole of the time?

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:58 AM

Good point, Santa. Considering that the Mike Harding programme is the only dedicated folk programme across the whole national network(as far as I know), it does seem odd to allocate a awhole programme to this, wonderful as it was.They should have another slot for classic recordings or whatever.But I guess that's pie-in-the-sky thinking. Or even better, wouldnt it be nice if the BBC commissioned programmes like that nowadays.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: gnomad
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 03:58 PM

Not everyone has the recording, and I for one was v glad to hear the progrmme in full.

Sure I would like to have had a weekly folk programe as well, but we are very much the poor relations here, and I preferred this to some of MH's more wide-ranging selections.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 04:59 PM

What's your problem here, Greg and Santa?

Like gnomad, I don't have the recording (money is pretty tight) and was very grateful for the opportunity to listen to it. If an important and influental television programme was repeated, I doubt anyone would moan, or is this yet another 'let's bash Mike Harding' because his program isn't exactly what I'd play arguement?

Thanks for starting the thread, Noreen. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

For anyone interested, it can still be heard (for the next 6 days anyway) by clicking here

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:28 PM

Interesting,points,all.
I,reckon,its,hard,to,please,everyone.
Its,a,real,shame,that,there,is,no,national,Folk,Station
We,have,Jazz-FM
and,2,national,classical,stations
[radio3,and,classicFM]
I,know,Folk,is,often,seen,as,a,minority,interest
but,surely,there,would,be,plenty,of,listeners?
If,I,had,the,money-and,knew,how,to
I,would,start,one,myself.
Oh,well,maybe,someone.will,eventually,start,one?

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:42 PM

Nice idea Jon, but it wouldn't work.

Folk music is very much a minority interest. The number of people who want to listen to Sam Larner is tiny. Even then, you'd get someone like Santa complaining because he's already got that CD...

Imagine the management meetings: 'So what is folk music?'

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 05:47 PM

Your'e,probably,right,Ed.
Still,its,a,shame,that,while,UK,radio
is,often,recognised,as,the,best,in,the,world
there,are,a,lot,of,stations,playing,the,
same,stuff,day,after,day
[Virgin,Magic,Galaxy,etc,etc]

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 06:26 PM

I bought the CD a couple of years back, but I haven't played it in a while - so I listened. What a fine programme it was. You need reminding every now and again what can be done with a lot more time than ever seems to be allowed for broadcasts these days.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: 8_Pints
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 07:50 PM

Wonderful program, even now after all this time!

Bob & Sue vG

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 06:04 AM

Ed, part of Greg's argument was that this re-broadcast need not have gone out in the only radio slot given over to folk music. Those ballads were a huge step in the development of radio, they are of real historical interest and they are strong enough to stand on their own. Moreover the subject matter was folklore and social history. It sells them short to treat them as folk music just because they contain folk songs.

John's suggestion is not that daft. Mediawatchers and advertising agencies didn't give Classic FM a chance but it is now financially strong. But a radio station doesn't need to be that big to survive. I sometimes wonder about the economics of BBC Radio 3, which must sometimes broadcast to an audience almost too small to estimate. (Probably not much more than 100,000?) I don't complain because I quite often appreciate the output, but this particular element of public-srvice broadcasting is surely beyond justifying on any rational basis?

And if the BBC can give an entire station over to serious broadcasting of serious music, why can't they go beyond one good program a week (which Mike Harding's isn't anyway) on folk music? Maybe Ralphie might call by with some thoughts.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 06:48 AM

My argument was just that expressed above - in the only spot dedicated to folk music we got a repeat. The repeat was of something that is available elsewhere. That the original broadcast was good and deserving of note I can only agree with completely - I just don't see why it needed to take out the entire slot.

I don't accept the cost argument: frankly, if you can afford a computer, a phone and to be on the internet then you can afford a CD. For anyone who really is in such a position -think of the good folk music you could have heard instead of this. It is a straight trade-off.

I've noticed that people do complain about repeats on TV....especially since the introduction of video recorders.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:22 AM

OK OK...Ralphie signing on here (with great trepidation!)

Cue material first. I was doing the Stuart Maconie show (BBCR2) on Weds night, and just before he finished, he played a Kirsty McColl song..
When I pointed out to him that (Serendipity alert) Folk on Two were going to play "Singing the Fishing" in an hours time, he went out of his way to promote it BIG TIME to the audience that listen to his drive time show....

There is no prejudice against traditional music on BBC Radio....It's just that nobody knows where to put it...

It pops up all over the place....See the Jim Moray thread..

I've been there for 30 years, and like many of you, I get exasperated by the attitudes of some of the production teams. Although I don't have a beard, don't possess either a pewter tankard or an Arran sweater, and my finger never even comes close to being near my "Aural Orifice" (It's too busy trying to play the Concertina). I'm still treated as some second class citizen...

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Ralphie
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:33 AM

Woops hit the wrong button there.

To continue...
Life has got so much better in the last 10 years or so....
I pose the question....name one commercial UK or US Radio/TV station that has devoted as much time to "Alternative/Ethnic/Slightly Weird" Capital? Kiss FM? Heart? Classic FM?....No...none of the above!
Why? Well I'll tell you..

They are all in the hands of the advertising industry...Bastard!!

Playlist Hell. Rotational Broadcasting...etc, etc..

At least we at the Beeb damn well try.

I'm sorry if one of threaders already owned "Singing the Fishing" and was upset by its broadcast on Weds....What about the Kirsty McColl fans, who might not have heard of her dad, and mighty have been persuaded by Stuart Maconie to keep listening. and judge for themselves, if it was indeed a valuable archive piece??

For Gods sake...We're doing our best here in Radio land.

Don't knock us if it's not perfect.

Ralph

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:47 AM

To be fair to the Beeb they do try and put out some folk occasionally. There was an excellent concert involving the Carthy clan on BBC2 earlier this year. The only real problem is that minority interest programs tend to scheduled in the wee small hours so we get lumped in with the OU, the astronomers, the test cricket reviews and the porn

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:55 AM

I deny being upset: or knocking anyone. My individual, if idiosyncratic, opinion is that it wasn't the most clever idea in broadcasting. That's all.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:43 PM

Ed: my beef was that programmes of that quality are not being made on the folk/theatre interface as they were forty years ago, due to a lack of giving people the chance to experiment. The people are around, but they dont get commissioned to make radio programmes. I appreciate programme quality is a purely subjective matter, but that's my purely subjective opinion.

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: Ed.
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:11 PM

Every view is of course subjective, and whilst I take issue with a couple of Santa's comments, I see little point in starting a petty arguement, so I'll leave it.

One thing's for sure. Having extended the life of this thread, a few itinerant web surfers may, out of curiousity, have listened to the programme. And that can only be a good thing

Subject: RE: Singing/Fishing BBCRadio2 tonight
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jul 03 - 05:21 PM

The Radio Ballads were...like the Revival, a product of the times.I remember hearing them on the wireless out in the remote West of Scotland when they were first broadcast.It was amazing..real people sing ing about their life and work,something that everyone could relate to at that time.I went searching for more Folk music and have been trapped ever since
But we are all kidding ourselves if we thinkthe mass popularity willcome back.The days of halls full ordinary Joes singing the roof off are gone and folk music returned to the navel gazers   Alex.