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BS: The WMD scapegoat appears...
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Subject: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: SeanM Date: 11 Jul 03 - 06:46 PM CIA takes blame for nuclear claim I've been wondering when the roulette wheel of blame was going to land... Bye Bye, Mr. CIA Director! You've been this Administration's sacrifice to the Gods of Public Opinion! M |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: katlaughing Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:28 PM How fast the news stories change! This morning, I don't remember if it was online or in the local paper, but I distinctly remember reading a quote of a CIA member which said they'd told the President of their concerns BEFORE he made the speech! That old tangled web is going to go right back to the sources and it can't be soon enough, imo! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Alba Date: 11 Jul 03 - 07:56 PM It was reported that the CIA had informed the White House three Months before the State of the Union Address that the reports of Iraq attempting to buy Uranium from Niger were not accurate and could not be verified. Now the report on the WMDs was accurate.....wasn't it? Just in case...who's name appears next on the Sacrifice to The God's of Public Opinion List ..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Alba Date: 11 Jul 03 - 09:33 PM Sorry Kat. Ive cross posted with you. I had started to type my reply and got interupted, when I came back to the Comp I finished my post and then signed out. Didn't check to see if any other replies had gone up! A:>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Ebbie Date: 11 Jul 03 - 10:11 PM Reminds me of falling onto one's sword in expiation of one's lord's transgressions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: katlaughing Date: 12 Jul 03 - 12:30 AM Me, too, Ebbie. It's okay, Alba, yours was much more precise and informative!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Jul 03 - 07:19 AM I'm sure noone imagines Bush reads his in-tray himself? There's a litle plaque in the White House saying "the buck stops here" - and there's some poor sod in a cellar somewhere who is going to find it's been put on her desk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: JennyO Date: 12 Jul 03 - 12:26 PM Ebbie, "falling on their sword" was exactly how it was described in our news tonight. The same drama is being played out in Australia with our PM and our secret service right now, with little Johnny Howard saying his office was not told even though ASIO knew long before the war. Then, to his detriment, he added that even if he had known, he would have still followed the US into war. Makes you sick! I think it will all blow up in their faces soon, and it can't be soon enough for me! Jenny |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Ebbie Date: 12 Jul 03 - 01:37 PM Bush says it's a closed issue. He wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Peter T. Date: 12 Jul 03 - 03:55 PM Millions of people knew they were lying when they went in. Any fool could see that they were manipulating, distorting the evidence, making an absurd case. What is the big noise now? "OMIGOD, WE WERE LIED TO!" Please. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Gareth Date: 12 Jul 03 - 07:32 PM Trying to be objective the CIA/British 'Intelligence' Services don't have the Worlds best record for producing acurate reports. Falklands? Kuwait? Israel? Ulster? Etc. Gareth Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Harold W Date: 12 Jul 03 - 08:40 PM Remember Harry S Truman's sign on his desk? "The buck stops here." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Amergin Date: 12 Jul 03 - 09:11 PM no...the buck goes to all his daddy's business associates... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Rapparee Date: 12 Jul 03 - 09:19 PM I guess the Sons of the Pioneers got it right: "See them tumbling down...." People are surprised they were lied to because when war is coming people want to believe, have to believe, that their cause is Just and Right and Good. Nobody would approve sending troops if they thought otherwise. And people want to believe their leaders. Then, big surprise: "We didn't know said the puzzled voter Watchin' the President on TV I guess we gotta drop those bombs If we're gonna keep south Asia free The President's such a peaceful man I guess he's got some kind of plan..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 12 Jul 03 - 09:38 PM Now looky here! If Mr. Bush says it's a closed issue, it's a closed issue! Under the recently enacted policy of Presidential Infallability, how could it be otherwise? Whatever the man says is right and if he's wrong the 70% of U.S. citizens who think he's just a step under God will help him lift the rug really high so he can sweep whatever the offending decision was under it. What a great system! Sieg Heil, mein Fuhrer! Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: GUEST,pdc Date: 12 Jul 03 - 10:55 PM What is the big noise now? "OMIGOD, WE WERE LIED TO!" Please. Right on, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bobert Date: 12 Jul 03 - 11:16 PM Well, fir a guy who was born with an endless supply of *passes* it comes as no surprise that Tenent would be ordered to take a fall. Problem with Georgey Porgy's latest *pass* is that at the time when he was selling the American people on the invasion, there were credible voices, who were being covered by the media who were saying that Iraq was years away from being a nuclear threat. Now, if I knew that historians would eventually sife thru the debrise and find the truth, would I have toatlly ignored those voices? Well, heck no. But Bush did. Just add this as "Exhibit 356" in my case to prove that Bush and all his men (and women) and a bunch of arrogant, self serving, in-you-face, idiots. What? Do that think that history is going to let them get away with this? Like I said.... idiots. Bobert Ahhhh, Claymore. If you read this, be mindfull that I did not call Mr. Bush a moron or a puss bag. B |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: rangeroger Date: 13 Jul 03 - 12:50 AM But, Boberts, Bush is a moron and a pus bag and a puppet to boot. rr |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: GUEST,Backwoods Philosiphiser Date: 13 Jul 03 - 01:09 AM An open Letter to the Bush syndicate. G. W. Bush, Well, well, WELL! The lie snowballs and the chickens found their way home! I wondered when it would happen, you sorry coniving pissant little runt! Son of man, thy sin will find thee out! The path is hard for the transgressor, you lying scumbag son of a bitch. Come November I'll stand with the rest of the contry and see your ass fired, I shit you not. You have packed thirty pounds of bullcrap into a ten pound sack long enough, thank you all the same. Enjoy the little time left, you dishonest filth infested PUNK! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 03 - 08:52 AM Now, now, GUEST! Like how do you really feel? Awww, jus' funnin... You know what getting Bush fired means, don't you? He'll be living alot closer to you.... Like practically down the danged street! You want that? Hun?........ Me, too....... And, yeah, looks like I might have to take a little time away from the Green Party and knock on a few doors my ownseff. BUt if we play it right, with brokering of votes, we can get Bush out and 5% which would be a win-win... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Hrothgar Date: 14 Jul 03 - 07:40 AM Don't think for a moment that the CIA will be punished for "not telling the president." They will almost certainly be rewarded for not telling him something he did not want to know. We had a similar instance here with the "children overboard" affair before the last election. The Defence Department (allegedly) did not pass on information that contradicted the line that Prime Minister Howard was pushing as part of his election strategy. A few months later, the re-elected Prime Minister, his chief political headkicker Peter Reith (as Minister of Defence) and his chief public service headkicker Max Moore-Wilton (as head of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet) were the ones who decided that the head of the Department of Defence had earned his performance bonus for the year. Rest assured that if he had told them the truth, he would have been crucified by the same happy trio. This pattern of rewarding the public servants who provide political advantages, and penalising those who carry out their duties apolitically, is corrupting what was once an excellent group of senior public servants. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: GUEST Date: 14 Jul 03 - 08:28 AM President Bush is not the first of our presidents who went to war against a fascist dictator who didn't yet have the weapons of mass destruction he may have thought he had. Here's a link to an article by Jonathan Gurwitz. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Greg F. Date: 14 Jul 03 - 08:48 AM Hey, wait a minute! Clinton lied about that blowjob!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Teribus Date: 14 Jul 03 - 09:30 AM Gareth, Counter to what you contend in your post above the intelligence agencies of both the USA and the UK are fairly highly regarded by others working in the same field. In the instances you gave, the reports passed may well have been accurate, the evaluations both best and worst case may well have been accurate, what then went wrong, if wrong is the correct term, was that the government adopted the wrong evaluation: Falklands - Disasterously, the Argentinians were given the benefit of the doubt, intelligence reports warned of possible occupation and preparations for invasion months before the event. The Government chose to ignore those warnings, in the optimistic hope that the junta in power were only sabre-rattling. Kuwait - If you are referring to 1961 they were bang on and British troops were sent to Kuwait and the threatened Iraqi invasion was averted. If you are referring to Iraq's invasion of 1990, there was insufficient time to react to prevent it. Israel - Don't think that has been our bailliwick for quite some time, but incidently Mossad, Israel's intelligence service, certainly rates the intelligence services of both the UK and the USA, they tend to work together in a number of areas very closely. Ulster - The efforts of UK intelligence gathering services saved thousands of lives. Unfortunately you will not read about it as those instances concern foiled attempts at bombings and running weapons and explosives into Northern Ireland. You omit to mention Malaya, Borneo, Tanzania, Bahrain, Muscat and Oman. All outstandingly successfull where UK's intelligence services played their part. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: CarolC Date: 14 Jul 03 - 04:07 PM I'm actually feeling a little ambivalent about this whole situation. Why is this issue being focused on so much right now? It's not new news or anything. Why were the news outlets so completely silent about it for so long? Why are they suddenly making such a big noise about it now? I never thought I would say something like this, but I'm actually contemplating voting for Bush in the upcoming election just to give him a chance to finish what he started with regard to the situation in Israel/Palestine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Gareth Date: 14 Jul 03 - 07:45 PM Terribus - The point is that YES they can get it wrong, in detail. CarolC - The question I will ask is, would any Democrat replacement fail to finish the job ? - In the nicest possible way, is the damage Bush will do to the World's economy worth the risk ????? Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: CarolC Date: 14 Jul 03 - 07:57 PM Gareth, I suspect that the only remotely electable Democratic candidate who would even have the will to try to finish the job would be Kucinich, if even him. As for your second question, my answer is 'I don't know'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 03 - 08:54 PM CarolC, or who ever has taken over CarolC's pudder: Are you out of yer danged mind? Vote for Bush? Really? Like, ahhhhh, why? No make that.... *Why*? This ain't like you at all to just friggin' *give up*. Bush could care less about the Middle East other than using a little leverage, and very little, to put pressure on Sharon. Had Bill Clinton told Sharon to just go ahead an pull off a two year long assault aginst a virtuallyn unarmed opponent then sure, Bill Clinton would have been able to get Sharon to quit killing folks as the world's public opinion soured against thre killing. Bush is no hero here. He's an accomplice to the bloodshed. There's blood a-plenty on his hands. If you wanta go vote for Bush, then the only thing I can say, is that you've been in the NASCAR/BUDweiser South too long.... Teribus: So like what happens to the discussions that occured prior to the Cincinniti speech where Tenent made it *perfectly clear* to Bush that the Niger uranium deal was bogas.. at best? Hmmmm? Then 3 months later, when Bush was graspin' at straws for an excuse to have a big military show to keep his poll numbers up, that he, ahhhh, forgot that he was about to use bogus intellegence and went gleefully ahead with what historians will one day refere to as "The Lie"? Hey, your guy is caught! Makes Nixon look like a Boy Scout. Makes Slick Willie look like the Pope. Yeah, historians will not share the same lustfull, obeyant, prostate view that you have of this crook and liar.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: CarolC Date: 14 Jul 03 - 09:12 PM I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, Bobert (except the Nascar bit... you and I might have to resort to fisticuffs over that remark). But Bush has done the deed in Iraq. This puts him in the best position of anybody to put the flame to the feet of anyone from the Israeli side of the equation who might try to prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, especially if he's doing it as an incumbent. From what I've seen of the Democrats, there is no-one who has the will to stand up to Sharon and those who endorse his stance on the issue of the Palestinians, with the possible exception of Kucinich, whose position on the issue I'm not very clear about yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: NicoleC Date: 14 Jul 03 - 09:53 PM Carol, I find it hard to credit Bush's sudden interest in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as anything other than a serious screw-up. It was Bush who originally decided to disengage from the peace process, whereupon the violence -- always simmering -- immediately boiled over. (Anything Clinton was involved in was BAD, right???) Nor do I think his eagerness to bomb the hell out of Muslim countries worries the Israelis one bit. We're not going to harm the hair of a single Israeli head... no matter how many Palestinians have to die to ensure that. American knows it, Europe knows it, Israeli knows it, and you can bet the Palestinians know it, but as usual they will try ANY path to peace that gets offer -- no matter how slim -- because they have no other options. His current involvement is not an achievement, it's recognition of a drastic and deadly mistake that has cost the lives of Israelis and Palestinians alike. You'll never hear him admit he was wrong -- but I betcha he knows it, even if someone had to tell him. So he can talk the talk. I don't think he has the attention span to see the process through the rest of his term or terms anyway. Anyone in the White House mention the festering sore Afghanistan is turning into (again) lately? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: CarolC Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:12 PM I'm certainly not suggesting harming any Israelis, NicoleC, nor do I give Bush credit for anything at all. But he does have a better position from which to apply leverage, as an incumbant who just wiped out one of Israel's biggest enemies, than any of the Democrats. And none of the Democrats has indicated any interest in furthering the process that Bush, through Colin Powel, has started. I'm hardly committed to voting for Bush, but I have to admit that I am considering the possibility (for the first time ever) in the absence of any sort of real committment coming from the Democrats, to the process of forming an independent and viable Palestinian state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 14 Jul 03 - 11:04 PM Dear Carol, So we're considering voting for Governor Bush, are we? Please see a doctor as soon as possible. It is not uncommon for folks who move to places such as Michigan from more idyllic locales such as Georgia to experience severe disorientation. This disorientation is caused by the natural tendency of the human brain to want to be in the best of all possible places. In other words, it is possible that your brain didn't want to move to Michigan and is still in Georgia. Please advise the address at which you were residing in Columbus and I will have my daughter drive down there from her home in Atlanta and see if she can find it for you. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 03 - 11:16 PM Ditto, Bruce.... If this is CarolC, then I'll eithter eat my shoes 'er pay someone to kidnap her and get her the heck away from them rednecks.... This ain't the CarolC I know.... Iz sniffin some Jack-the-Sailor offspring who's got ahold of ythe pdder who don't know nuthin' about nuthin'... This ain't CarolC.... PERIOD! Sorry about the screamin'.... BObert |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Ebbie Date: 14 Jul 03 - 11:22 PM They're giving you a hard time, Carol C- but I'm not worried. With Bush, et al, in that office, LOTS more things will happen before the 2004 elections. I just hope that none of them will be as bad as I fear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The WMD scapegoat appears... From: Alba Date: 15 Jul 03 - 06:39 AM With you there Ebbie, but if the Track Record so far is anything to go by....... As the saying goes..More shall be revealed. Scarey times indeed. A |
