Children's song c. 1862

Subject: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,Barb Haworth-Attard
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:55 AM

I wondered if you would be able to provide me with a bit of information. I am a Canadian children's author and am presently working on a book for Scholastic Canada's "Dear Canada" series on the 1862 Cariboo gold rush in British Columbia.
My character, a 13 year old girl, Methodist upbringing, British background, originally from Ontario, is singing a song to keep her spirits up - and I must admit, though I've done some search through the National Library and other sites, I can not quite find a popular tune of that era with which a 13 year old girl, ie. a folk song, something her mother sang to her. My character accompanies the Overlanders on the journey from Fort Garry to the Cariboo and they carried instruments and had music evenings frequently. Do you have any suggestions? Many thanks,

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:04 AM

I found this one in the DT. Would it work?

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:14 AM

This looks like a great place,
but the songs page is still under construction.

Google Search reveals a lot of hits for Canadian Folk songs.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:17 AM

singing from a good Methodist girl? Outside of a church service? !!

"What was your name in the States?" is one that would have been well known.

S. Foster songs were very widely spread.

Oh Susanah?

I'm sure that then, as now, children would latch onto popular songs even though they might not be "correct" for their age...

Subject: Lyr Add: Johnny Appleseed Grace
From:
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 09:51 AM

I sent a PM to Jon Bartlett who might be able to help.

This, though American in origin, might be suitable.Johnny Appleseed Grace
Johnny Appleseed Grace (song)

Oh, the Lord's been good to me.
And so I thank the Lord
For giving me the things I need:
The sun, the rain and the appleseed;
Oh, the Lord's been good to me.
 
Oh, and every seed I sow
Will grow into a tree.
And someday there'll be apples there
For everyone in the world to share.
Oh, the Lord is good to me.
 
Oh, here I am 'neath the blue, blue sky
Doing as I please.
Singing with my feathered friends;
Humming with the bees.
 
I wake up every day,
As happy as can be,
use I know that with His care
My apple trees, they will still be there.
The Lord's been good to me.
 
I wake up every day 
As happy as can be, 
Because I know the Lord is there
Watchin' over all my friends and me
The Lord is good to me

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From:
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:31 AM

As for older songs from the period before 1862, you might look up some of the Sheet Music repositories, such as the Levy Collection. You could do a search on songs written in the years before 1862. At Levy alone, there were 3200 hits on a search between 1850 and 1862.

Levy Sheet Music Collection
American Memory Collection
Templeton Music Archive
Duke University Archive

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 11:53 AM

I've always liked the Johnny Appleseed song posted above. However, it wasn't around in the time period mentioned. It was written by Kim Gannon, and Walter Kent in 1946 and was used in the Disney movie about Johnny Appleseed.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:46 PM

I am sure that the threads containing children's songs at this website contain some documented older songs.
Threads 585, 2910, 4300, 8650, 18352, 20909, 35097, 37840, 53849, 56303, 56361, 56380, 60248, 61925 and others.

The Cariboo Gold Rush brought people from all over, but an Ontario girl would be most familiar with UK-Ireland and eastern U. S. songs. (Johnny Appleseed was a Johnny come-lately as noted above and only crabapples can be grown in much of the western prairies that she would cross).
Versions of "Lord Randall" (thread 10062), "Poor Caroline of Edinburgh Town," "Drowsy Sleeper" and other old ballads, some of the songs of Robert Burns,- quite a lot available. At age thirteen she would have heard some of these ballads and songs, and become interested in murders and ghosts.
Undoubtedly known would be "Sweet Betsy from Pike." "Down by the River " (Clementine) didn't show up until 1863. "She'll be Coming 'round the Mountain" had its roots in a Negro spiritual, but was spread everywhere. "Froggy Went A-Courtin'," "Courtin' in the Kitchen," "Shule Agrah," "The Jolly Beggar."
As mentioned before, many of the Foster songs were popular in eastern Canada as well as in the United States and British Isles.
Undoubtedly sung, but not sung today, would have been blackface minstrel songs (there are pc versions of Kemo Kimo) which were widespread in both the British Isles and the U. S.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From:
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:49 PM

Thanks Allan. I'd never heard when that song was written.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:50 PM

Mama buy me a Chiney Doll?

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Hollowfox
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:52 PM

I've been known to sing hymns for fun, even when I was a child. Perhaps she could, too.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 01:55 PM

Actually "Milking Pail" can be more accurately dated back and I think would be a good one.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:41 PM

Right, Hollowfox. Hymns would be an important part of the singing in 1862. Most of us forget that.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,Barb Haworth-Attard
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 02:52 PM

Many thanks folks for your suggestions. I actually was thinking hymns also, though in the story, because of the loss of her mother and other circumstances she's decided she's not all that keen on church anymore. It's verifying what dates the songs were written that I'm finding a challenge. But I will take some of these suggestions and look them up.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 03:53 PM

These were popular in the 1860s:
Annie Laurie, Annie of the Vale, Aunt Jemima's Plaster, Aura Lee,
Bonny Jean, Hard Times Come Again No More (Foster), I'll Hang My Harp on the willow Tree, Irish Immigrants Lament, Listen to the Mockingbird, Lorena, Miss Lucy Long, Near the Lake Where Drooped the Willow (Long Time Ago), Old Dan Tucker, Pretty Quadroon, Raging Canal, Villikins and Dinah, Yellow Rose of Texas, Whiskey in the Jar (not Methodists?).

METHODIST Hymns: Wesley's Collection of Hymns (1876 edition); those before # 553 are the older ones from before the 1876 Supplement)- on line at Methodist hymns

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: CraigS
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:32 PM

As an ex-member of a Junior Methodist Choir (I discovered alcohol before I was eligible for the Senior Choir), I can say that our favourite recreational songs were irreverent biblical digs, such as The Five Constipated Men, or There Were Three Jews From Jerusalem. Since no respectable young lady would sing these, I would suggest Aiken Drum, or I'll Buy You a Paper of Pins; En Passant Par La Lorraine, or Biquette, if you want a French one.

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:02 PM

I don't know how old it is, but I think it's safe to say that Lukey's Boat is a traditional children's song that's specifically Canadian. It was considered traditional when it was collected in 1928 and 1932, but who can tell how old it is? Most likely, it comes from the Atlantic coast of Canada, so it may not be authentic for British Columbia or even Ontario.
Sometime Mudcatters Cathryn Wellner and Richard Wright have a good deal of expertise on British Columbia music history. Their Website is http://goldrushbc.com/, and you'll find a thread on their CD here (click). You'll find information on how to contact them on this page.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Children's song c. 1862
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:28 PM

Writing in 1859, William Chappell (Popular Music of the Olden Time p.735) said: "If I were required to name three of the most popular songs among the servant-maids of the present generation, I should say, from my own experience, that they are Cupid's Garden, I sow'd the seeds of love, and Early one morning. I have heard Early one morning sung by servants, who came from Leeds, from Hereford, and from Devonshire, and by others from parts nearer London."

Obviously that is not Canada, but popular culture wasn't necessarily all that different in the two countries, and if your characters are relatively recent immigrants the songs would probably suit the case (provided they don't belong to one of the stricter sects, of course; round here (Yorkshire) they were always having schisms to see who was strictest, and there are still abandoned chapels all over the place). The songs were printed widely on broadsides and in songbooks of the time; you can see texts of the first half of the 19th century at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, and probably at the Library of Congress site as well.