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Lyr Req: The Two Magicians (A. L. Lloyd) DigiTrad: HIDE WILLIE HIDE THE TWO MAGICIANS TWA MAGICIANS TWO MAGICIANS Related threads: Lyr Req: Coal-Black Smith? / Two Magicians (25) (origins) Origins: Two Magicians (61) Chords Req: Two Magicians (14) Lyr Req: Two Magicians -at Reed College Renn Fayre (5) Twa Magicians (7) |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TWO MAGICIANS (A. L. Lloyd) From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:05 AM Could somebody please help me to complete and correct the text of the ballad Two Magicians as sung by A. L. Lloyd? Thank you. Roberto This is what I could get: THE TWO MAGICIANS As recorded by A. L. Lloyd on the various-artists album "The Bird in the Bush: Traditional Songs of Love and Lust" (1996)
1. The lady stood at her own front door
2. And he said: "Bide, lady, bide.
3. "Well may you dress you, lady fair,
4. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
5. "Away, away, you coal-black smith.
6. "I'd rather I was dead and cold
7. Then the lady, she held up her hand
8. And the blacksmith, he held up his hand
9. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
10. Then she became a turtle dove
11. And he cooed: "Bide, lady, bide.
12. And she became a little duck
13. Quacking: "Bide, lady, bide.
14. She turned herself into a hare
15. Barking: "Bide, lady, bide.
16. And she became a little ewe sheep
17. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
18. She changed herself to a swift young mare
19. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
20. And she became a little green fly
21. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
22. Then she became a hot griddle
23. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
24. She turned herself to a full-dressed ship
25. Saying: "Bide, lady, bide.
26. So the lady ran in her own bedroom
27. And was she woe, he held her so [Changes made based on comments below.--A Mudelf.] |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: s&r Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:08 AM Will try to find the missing words - it's lusty not husky though... |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: s&r Date: 26 Aug 03 - 07:10 AM It's in the dt database complete with music |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 03 - 11:22 AM Thank you, s&r, but the song in the database is different from what A. L. Lloyd actually sings. As for "lusty", many texts have "lusty"; Martin Carthy sings "lusty". But I don't think that "lusty" is the word sung by A. L. Lloyd. It is necessary to listen to the recording. I wait with hope. Roberto |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 26 Aug 03 - 11:53 AM The text in the DT contains a number of mishearings and other errors of transcription. It seems to have been made by ear from a record by Tony Barrand and John Roberts; their own transcription is at http://www.sover.net/~barrand/rgh/darkships.html. Actually, some details of that, too, seem a little odd. The trouble here is that this is Bert Lloyd's own song (though based on traditional material), and he seems to have added extra verses from time to time as the mood took him. Various people learnt it from him, and how they sing it depends on what he had been doing with it at the time. Others have learnt these from records; and so it goes on. It isn't a traditional song as it stands, but is perhaps on the way to becoming one; considerable variation is already appearing. One example is the husky/lusty business. s&r is wrong about that; Bert was singing "husky" at the time he recorded the song, though others do sing "lusty", as I expect he did himself on other occasions. Roberto's transcription is quite accurate. I'd just add Verse 16: little ewe sheep Verse 18: clung onto her back Verse 24: full-dressed ship Verse 27: And was she woe, he held her so I can't make out the word or two preceding "drake". A couple of general points. "Blacksmith" is a single word, not two. Although Lloyd pronounces "my" as "me", that is just pronounciation, not dialect, and my own feeling is that it's best to spell it the normal way, as "my"; that way people will select the pronounciation that comes naturally to them, rather than copying "me" under the impression that it's prescriptive. One might take a different approach when transcribing a song from a traditional singer, of course, but that's a rather different situation. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Roberto Date: 26 Aug 03 - 12:13 PM Thank you very much, Malcolm Douglas. The only problem remains the "drake". Roberto |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Aug 03 - 02:06 PM The version in the Digital Tradition has the filename MAGICN2, chich gives me the impression there should be another version in the database. I was going to add that other version to the crosslinks, but I can't find it. Anybody know of other versions of this song in the database? Has a more definitive version of the lyrics been posted? As far as I can see, the best version posted yet is the Steeleye Span version, and I think we ought to be able to do better than that. -Joe Offer- Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index: Twa Magicians, The [Child 44]DESCRIPTION: A (blacksmith) sees a girl who pleases him, and sets out to sleep with her. She tries to foil him with magic transformations, but he proves as sorcerous as she, and gains her maidenheadAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1828 (Buchan) KEYWORDS: magic seduction rape shape-changing FOUND IN: Britain(England) REFERENCES (7 citations): Child 44, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text) Bronson 44, "The Twa Magicians" (1 version plus eleven texts of "Hares on the Mountain") Leach, pp. 152-154, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text) PBB 25, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text) Sharp-100E 20, "The Two Magicians" (1 text, 1 tune) {Bronson's #1} DBuchan 47, "The Twa Magicians" (1 text) DT 44, MAGICN2* RECORDINGS: A. L. Lloyd, "Two Magicians" (on Lloyd3, BirdBush1, BirdBush2) [tune by Lloyd] CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Hares on the Mountain" (theme) Notes: Sharp bowdlerizes "gain my maidenhead" to "change my maiden name" (!) -PJS Bronson believes that the ballad "Hares on the Mountain" is a very-much-worn-down version of this piece. This is, at best, currently beyond proof; personally, I don't believe it. The idea of gaining a lover who is changing shape has ancient roots. We find it in Ovid's "Metamorphoses," where Peleus (the father of Achilles) finds Thetis in a cave and attempts to couple with her. To defeat him, she turns into a bird, a tree, and a tigress. The latter scares him off, but eventually he catches her while asleep (XI.225ff.). - RBW File: C044 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2003 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Susan of DT Date: 26 Aug 03 - 06:05 PM Joe - I wonder if we lost the other version at some point. Songs do vanish at times. I'll check some of the older DTs I have around. 20 minutes later: After checking the 1996 and 1991 versions of the DT for the elusive other version, I remembered my logic. The 2 is for TWO magicians, not the second version. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Roberto Date: 27 Aug 03 - 03:18 AM I think that A. L. Lloyd's version would deserve a place in the Database. With Malcolm Douglas' corrections, I think we have the whole text, except for the two little words before "drake". F.J. Child has "rose-kaimd drake", but it is not what Lloyd sings. One last effort, please, to get the missing words! Thank you. Roberto |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 27 Aug 03 - 11:54 AM Further: Verse 3: Well may you dress Verse 12: Pink-necked The DT text is Lloyd's re-write, though with some mistakes. Aside from them, it's as "authentic" as Roberto's transcription, though filtered through other people since Lloyd. The text above comes directly from a recording by Lloyd, though, and includes verses not so often sung, so is in that sense more complete and, I suppose, "authentic". So far as recall, all known traditional texts (there are very few) have been posted in one of the earlier discussions (see links above); together, of course, with a number of modern verses made up by other people and tacked onto both William Sparks' traditional version and Bert Lloyd's rewrite. Sadly, some of those "fake" verses had found their way into the text of the former I posted three years ago. Nothing against people adding to songs, but such additions should be indicated so that no one imagines that they are authentic and proceeds to use them as "evidence" of something (in the case of this particular song that tends to be the "pagan origins" canard). It is also time that the Traditional Ballad Index removed that remark accusing Sharp of bowdlerising Mr Sparks' set. They may think that the word ought to be "maidenhead", but that isn't what the man sang. He sang "maiden name", and Sharp wrote it down. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: GUEST,ade j Date: 21 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM pink-necked drake? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Reinhard Date: 22 Sep 11 - 05:39 AM yes |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Mr Happy Date: 06 Oct 17 - 12:02 PM There's no mention of any number magicians in the versions I've heard or perused. Does anyone know why the song has this title? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: RTim Date: 06 Oct 17 - 12:11 PM Because the majority of the song versions are about Two Magicians.......... ..see .Roud 1350 Tim Radford |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: Mr Happy Date: 06 Oct 17 - 04:32 PM Tim, thanks. However, can you point me to any version which mentions magicians, please? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: RTim Date: 06 Oct 17 - 04:47 PM No Mr Happy - it is simply implied by the actions taken by the two people in the story - they can Magically "Shape Shift"........... Tim Radford |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A. L. Lloyd's Two Magicians From: GUEST,Brian Peters Date: 06 Oct 17 - 08:04 PM The ballad has that title because that's what Francis James Child decided to call it. One of his more sensible choices, IMO. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Two Magicians (A. L. Lloyd) From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Oct 17 - 06:12 PM In verse 6, I think he sings "husky, dusky" (rather than "dusty"). |
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