Pleasing or Impressive...

Subject: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:10 AM

Yes, I've been thinking... pondering, if you will... about music appreciation. Now, I've lately been accosted by the needy whelps that bark and yip insessantly about their 'need' to be impressed, and it made me think long and hard about what stimulates listeners... and what motivates me. Seems some like to be moved with feeling, and some like to be dazzled with technique and the turning of a phrase... some play fast and hot, and others play passionate seranades...

As situations differ, so must the music... and yet some like it smooth, and some want it blistering.

I wonder what your thoughts are on this?

Is it better to please, or to impress... ?

I prefer to be pleased... but I may long to be impressed... ttr

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:18 AM

Good question. The other side of the coin, of course, is would you rather please or impress? I enjoy participating on occasion in white hot rhythms and energies but I more frequently enjoy subtleties and emotion-filled phrasing, especially to listen to.

We've all heard players who seem to think that dexterity on an instrument is the ultimate, but speed and precision without soul doesn't satisfy the listener. Listen to JustaPicker if you want both. Or Doc Watson.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:30 AM

I think you said it all Ebbie. To me it doesn't matter if its fast or slow, precise or sloppy. If the song has heart and touches me I am both pleased and impressed.

Mike

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Mudlark
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:40 AM

I agree with the above. Speed and dexterity are impressive because they are a rare and difficult achievement. But if these impressive skills aren't used with heart and passion, for me they end up impressive but boring. OTOH, for music that really grabs me, pleasure is too passive a word. The music I love the most involves me, it changes me, and often moves me to tears...it way more than pleases me.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:41 AM

True- and that's a great combination.

(BTW, AlaskaMike, I do believe I've been listening to one of your songs unaware. I have Seamus Kennedy's wonderful 'A Smile and a Tear' and a great song that I'm learning is 'Wilderness Letters'. Ring a bell?)

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:56 AM

I am aware of that particular song, Ebbie. I wrote it about my great grandmother who's husband did the gold rush thing in the Yukon back at the turn of the last century. I was very pleased when Seamus recorded it. I think he did a bang up job of it too. Seamus lets me perform with him occasionally when he plays here in Anchorage as long as I let him sing my song. "Smile and A Tear" has a good selection of new and traditional songs on it. I've got my copy in the pickup and listen to it regularly. Thanks.

Mike

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 04:03 AM

Who are you performing for? It sometimes seems to me that the really impressive musicians are performing for other musicians, some people are singing to educate, and some are polishing a song to death!

I'm happy if everyone just shuts up and listens, but then, I never wanted to be a pro performer, just to enjoy the music.

And maybe I'd never be good enough to be pro even if I wanted to, anyway. (Got that in first.)(And good enough by my personal standards, I mean)

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:12 AM

I sing at coffee shops, music festivals, trade shows, living rooms, concerts and while I'm driving down the road. I sing because it makes me feel good, lowers my blood pressure, tickles my funny bone, gives me a sense that my life is good and worthwhile, and because it seems to do the same for the audience I sing for, also. I have sung for groups of 1,000 or more, I have sung to myself, and I've sung for audiences of every size in between. I don't do it for the money or glory (lord knows there's not much money to be made in Alaska in the music industry). I sing because I love it. I love to share my songs and my voice with anyone willing to sit still long enough to catch my show. I will keep singing until I'm dragged off, kicking and singing, into that "Great Green Room In The Sky".

Mike

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:16 AM

oh! you are *that* Mike!!!!   wow. that song floored me when I heard Seamus do it.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:21 AM

THere's no issue in my mind about it; sing to warm the hearts of listeners, or to excite them or to touch them in some way. Singing to impress -- with technical skills -- is upside down. That's not what technical skills are for. What kind of value is that? Surelytechnical excellence and impressive abilities should be cultivated, but they aren't the freight, they're the dray-horse.

A

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:22 AM

got sidetracked - I was going to say - some artists are able to do the technical aspects and yet make it seem so easy that you don't really notice - at first -

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:26 AM

Thanks Mario, its always nice to hear from the people my songs have touched. I got an e-mail once from a lady in Missouri that started out, "Dear Mike, I hate your guts!!! Your song, "_____", has been stuck in my head now for three months and I can't get it out." She went on to say that she was just kidding, that she loved my CD and wanted me to send her another. Since Seamus recorded my song, I have received letters and e-mails about "Wilderness Letters" from all over the country. It gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Mike

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:32 AM

Sing to please... even if it's just yourself. If you are pleased and others are pleased, it leaves an impression with some people, and that's how you get return bookings.

I sang a particular song to please me, it impressed a few people and now the author is a happy bunny.

LTS - who is not the author......

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: VIN
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:58 AM

Know what you mean Liz. I think sharing must come into it a lot - i like to share what i think are good songs with others and if what they've heard pleases them (especially enough to join in) then that's good. If i'm asked back to do another (i don't sing professionally) then i do feel quite chuffed (but maybe that's ego - i don't know).

Music is in the ear of the listener (or somethin like that). What can sound pure genious technically to one person, can sound totally boring to another (whether voice or instrument)!

I can be just as moved at a gig listenin to a work by Mahler or Mozart as i can at a Roy Harper or Fairport or Vin Garbutt or Oldham Tinker's gig. Strange innit?

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 11:40 AM

Some folks can present a song in such a way that their performance does not get in the way of the music and I can appreciate that. Some folks can even enhance a song a bit by their performance and I enjoy that. Some seem to think that it is their performance that gives a song life and meaning and were it not for their performance the song would be insignificant. That is something in which I rarely find pleasure.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 11:50 AM

Spot On Arkie.... There is a certain artiste on the rounds at the moment who would do well to learn that - she's made a career out of performing for her own display, rather than the sharing of songs. People have stopped going to see her because she's made it bloody obvious that the material isn't what people want to hear, but her.

Of course, that is also partially true, but she does it in such an offensive way that many of her former fans have deserted her, and her bookings dried up for a long time.....

I hope I impressed people with the song I did, because the author is better known for doing works in a totally different genre.

LTS

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 04:24 PM

Alas, and yes... I do believe that some viable combination of the two would be for the best. What has led me to this quandry is the discrepancy I've noticed between the 'musician's session' players, and the performers that play for regular folks. Both camps are able to be quite finnicky... but, ...most of the musicians are dreadfully short of money... I guess we have to be extra critical to take the place of a tip...;^( Really, though... it does seem possible that the over emersion in one type of music can lead to a distorted valuation of what is 'good'... and that is quite out of the context of what most people look for in music, that is, from the standpoint of our day to day lives...

Oh, and thanks for the fine reply Amos! You made sense to me, and I laughed hard in the bargain... to think of those cold hearted starlets of technical exctacy egotistically flaunting their dray horses... :^)

Cheerio! ttr

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: mack/misophist
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 09:04 PM

I would say that 'pleasing' is a subset of 'impressive'. How can a song be impressive and not be pleasing. But a wonderful quiet song can be pleasing without being impressive. Don't try to impress people. You're in competition with everything they ever heard. Besides, some one who insists on being impressed probably has no taste, anyway.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Maryrrf
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 09:48 PM

I think something can be "impressive" and not be pleasing. I've listened to musicians and been impressed with their vocal range or, more usually, their skill at a musical instrument, but in some cases all the voice acrobatics made it hard to follow the song, which for me is the important thing. In the case of instruments, sometimes it was just too fast and furious, or they went into some world of their own improvising and although I was impressed at the skill it took to do it, I didn't find it very enjoyable to listen to.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: mack/misophist
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 12:07 AM

Maryrrf: Feel free to amend my idea in any way that works. It sounds as you got the gist of it. Not everything I say is written in stone.

Subject: RE: Pleasing or Impressive...
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 05:53 AM

There's also the song which is 'powerful.' The one that springs to my mind is 'Fanny Blair,' which is about being unjustly accused -and hanging. Sung in an accusatory manner, it is breathtaking, but not pleasing in any normal sense. Never forget it, though.