Help: Latin phrase?

Subject: Help: Latin phrase?
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 08:48 PM

Can anyone tell me what "aliquid haeret" means? My ever-cryptic father stuck it in his latest letter to me... I think it's Latin.

Thanks in advance,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 09:14 PM

"Semper aliquid haeret", part of the saying "Audacter calumniare, semper aliquid haeret" ("If you slander somebody long enough, some of it is bound to stick").

Karl Marx used the expression in Das Capital. I think he got if from Plutarch. (Who may have got it from someone else.)

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Deda
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 11:51 PM

Literally, just those two words mean "Something will stick." (The verb haero, haerere is related to English adhere, cohere, coherent, adhesive and cohesive, inter alia.)

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Oct 03 - 12:45 PM

Thanks, McGrath and Deda.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 06:22 PM

Suspect your Dad was referring to the old saying "Throw enough shit against a wall and some of it is bound to stick." Sales managers try to inspire their forces with this little gem to get them to do more cold calling.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM

More seemly sales managers would say "mud" perhaps.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 11:46 PM

Never have I known a "seemly" sales manager, at least not this side of the pond.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:01 AM

Maybe someone can translate this for me. It was found in a collection of Latin poetry:

O si vile si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O no vile dem es trux
Vat es in dem
Causen dux

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:06 AM

Guest, you remind me of the French phrase: un petit d'un petit s'attend de vol

wr

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:33 AM

WR:

The phrase makes no sense to me -- what does it mean?

Guest: If you get a handle and PM Deda she's be happy to help you.

A

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:45 AM

I hadn't comes across that one before. For the benefit of non skolards:

"Oh see Willy, see - 'ere go
Forty buses in a row."
"Oh no, Willy, them is trucks."
"What is in them?"
"Cows and ducks."

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 12:36 PM

Amos,

Try saying it out loud with French pronociation. If you don't get it yourself, someone listening will.

wr

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:06 PM

And who could help me with this citation?
Caesar cum spectavit portum plenum esse, iuxta navigabit.
(Don't bother to try to understand unless you are named Wilfried: He might)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:58 PM

I guess it would be too obivous to say something like "When Caesar saw that the harbour was full, he sailed on by"?

Is this some sort of a "rex pulex post Americam..." jobbie, O ambulator lupine?

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:27 PM

Mairzy Doats And Dozy Doats and liddle lamzy divey. . .

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 02:58 AM

Yes, GUEST, that's the obvious translation, but it plays on double meaning of words when translated into German, and the less obvious meaning is:

When Caesar saw that the pisspot was full he pissed aside it.

You judge if that is similar to your example. I can do several things in English but understanding the jokes above is beyond my ability: Of hte poem McGrath has 'translated' I only got the before last line when I tried.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: gnu
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:01 AM

Perhaps some skolar can help me with this one, although I may have the spelling fouled up. Gu on a bindar. I know it sounds like "go on a bender", but it actually is from a family herald book on the "Turpin" family.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: HuwG
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:17 AM

How about,


"Caesar had some jam for tea
Brutus 'ad a rat
Caesar sick in omnibus
Brutus sick in hat"

or, more properly

"Caesar adsum iam forte
Brutus aderat
Caesar sic in omnibus
Brutus siccinat"


The closest translation I ever managed was :

"By chance, I, Caesar, have now arrived
Brutus was here before
I, Caesar, am thus concerned in all matters
Brutus being exhausted".


I am not one hundred percent certain about the verb "siccinare". There is an on-line latin dictionary, Little Rome which gives it as "dry, drain, exhaust", but I suspect that it is transitive. (In which case, the last line should read, "Brutus se siccinat" = "Brutus exhausts himself". This spoils the rhyme and English meaning. I suppose we can take the reflexive meaning of the verb for granted if there is no direct object.)

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:40 PM

McGrath of Harlow gave us this:

"Oh see Willy, see - 'ere go
Forty buses in a row."
"Oh no, Willy, them is trucks."
"What is in them?"
"Cows and ducks."

I learned something similiar, like this:

Seevilli, dare daygo
Furtee busses inaro
Onovilli, demmis trux
Summit coussand summit dux

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 09:19 PM

This puts me in mind of an old thread we haven't seen for a while.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM

I wonder who's kissing her nunc?

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:05 AM

Wolfgang - shouldn't it be potum instead of portum? Sounds more like the Pott.
For foreigners: Wolfgang's joke can only be deciphered in its true sense by Germans; navigare meant schiffen = to go by boat in older German, but now only to piss.
Students are used to express their wish for a short leave to the loo politely with the words navigare necesse est, but not with the intention of supporting the Imperial Navy.
McGrath - another version of cows and ducks:
Civile si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
Gnoses mare Thebe trux
Vatis inem
Causan dux.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:17 AM

Wilfried, 'Hafen' is meant as in 'Nachthafen' (which may only be known locally)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:17 AM

McGrath - Considering that Karl Marx used the British Museum a lot, it wouldn't be too far fetched to look for an English author of "Audacter calumniare ...". I found him:

Bacon, Francis: De dignitate et augmentis scientiarum ; 8,2,4.
"slander bold enough ..."

Wolfgang - thanks; I just forgot that we have Southerners in Germany with a strange dialect.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 02:09 PM

Interesting, so it might have been Bacon from whom Marx took the quote. However I suspect, if one dug around, it'd turn up it has been used by a fair number of other people over the nearly 2000 years since Plutarch wrote it down.

In which case, knowing the Mudcat, someone will probably come up with some cases. I somehow doubt if there are many sites where that kind of thing happens so often.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:56 AM

McGrath - what is baffling me is the reference I found in the "Lexikon der Alten Welt" = "Lexicon ot the Ancient[!] World" that Bacon[!] was given as the original source ...
And didn't Plutarch write in Greek?

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 05:08 AM

DEPOSIUT POTENTES DECEDE ET EXALTAVIT HUMILES
                                           LONGFELLOW?

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Peterr
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 07:26 AM

weerovers contribution re (thread drift) French phrase. A great little book called 'Mots d'heure, gousses, rames' is all nursery rhymes in that style. I recall 'Pousse y gate, pousee y gate, et Arabe yeux bine' and '"Adieu, notres laiques" dit d'acteur frele, "La raison Hawaii canot telle"' Apparently they all actually make some sort of sense in French too.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:02 PM

Dost thou not recall the sacred chant of the Swami of Spanky & Our Gang?    idB:

Oh Wah, Tae Gu, Siam!

         P.S. Yes, I know that Taegu is in South Korea, & not Siam, as I once lived in Taegu--aka: Daegu. Remember to chant the sacred chang as you bow before the Swami!

Subject: Lyr Add: MAIRZY DOATS
From: Fliss
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:19 PM

Thats cheered up my night.. Im up coughing got nasty cold bug.

Mares eat oats and lambs eat oats and little lambs eat ivy.

Kiddly divy too, wouldnt you?

Mairzy doats and dozy doats
And liddle lamzy divey,
A kiddlely divey too, wouldn't you?
Mairzy doats and dozy doats
And liddle lamzy divey,
A kiddlely divey too, wouldn't you?

If the words sound queer and funny to your ear,
A little bit jumbled and jivey,
Sing "mares eat oats and does eat oats
And little lambs eat ivy."

Written by Jerry Livingston, Milton Drake and AI Hoffman
1943

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:45 AM

Back in the mid 50s we learned it as "Oh Wah, Ta Na, Siam!", sung to the tune of "God Save The Queen". The Headmaster got the whole school to sing it the day he retired!

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: s&r
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 03:15 AM

From years ago on the prefects common room door

"Foras Sesto Pondero Ver"

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 09:00 AM

DEPOSUIT POTENTES ... : Biblia, passim (mostly short fellows)

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Arnie
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 09:28 AM

And here's another variation on the theme:-

Si Senor, derdago
Forte lorez inaro
Demarn lorez, demar trux
Fulla cowsen ensen dux

Said of course in a Spanish accent....

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 09:42 AM

Okay, Latinii: some years ago my brother (the odder of the two) asked me to translate a phrase into Latin. I came up with "Sine virtus, sine laus" as the closest I could come to "No guts, no glory."

Since I last had Latin about forty-two years ago -- am I anywhere near accurate? (I rejected "gloria".)

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: okthen
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:59 PM

I am reminded of some graffiti, written under the sign (in Liverpool)


Mersey Docks and Harbour Board

someone had written

And little Lambs eat ivy.

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM

Rapaire:

I'd have thought "gloria" would have worked therein, but your sense may be subtler than mine. Why not the Nil...nil construction? I'm referring this one to the Perfesser in my family, Deda.

A

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Deda
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 07:50 PM

Sine is a preposition that takes the ablative, so it should be "Sine virtute, sine laude" -- literally "without [bravery, manliness, strength] (is) without praise." I agree with Amos that "gloria" would work -- it means fame, reknown, glory. It's first declension so the ablative is "gloria", with the final a being long. I might be tempted to use "audacia" (daring) rather than "virtus". Either "sine audacia, sine gloria" or "nihil audacia, nihil gloria" -- no daring, no glory.

Sinsull? McGrath? Anybody else?

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: early
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 07:56 PM

semper aliquid haeret literally - something always remains

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 08:18 PM

Mud sticks

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:23 AM

Deposuit potentes de sede, et exaltavit humiles - This idea is often expressed in both testaments, here it is from the "Magnificat" (St. Mary's Praise). Gospel acc. to St. Luke, I, 52.

Sine audacia, sine laude: Gloria fits well, but it sometimes has a bad odour as in the title "Miles Gloriosus". When constructed with "nihil" (or the shorter form "nil" = nothing) the genitive is requested: Nil audaciae, nil gloriae.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,Tom B
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 08:33 AM

My boss says this is his family motto -
Sine audacia, sine laude   
Any help w/translation is appreciated!

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

It means, colloquially, "No guts, no glory."

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:18 PM

I always wanted a family motto. How about
"non calor sed umor"?
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: GUEST,wiljon1
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 11:25 AM

Caesar ad sum iam forte
Brutus et erat
Caesar sic in omnibus
Brtus sc in at

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 11:32 AM

Que?

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:46 PM

Semper in excretum!

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 02:51 PM

Silicis In!!

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:06 PM

The Snooker player james Wattana was from Thailand ( Siam) anyone got a programme listing Wattana ( Siam)

Subject: RE: Help: Latin phrase?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 07:39 AM

Caesar Et Sum Apples
Caesar Et Sum Jam ;
Caesar Sic In Omnibus
Caesar Sic Intram