Lyr ADD: Pancho and Lefty (Townes Van Zandt)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 12:20 PM

GUEST's "Pancho and Lefty as the same person" idea is very interesting. If you look at the song in that way, a lot of the confusing aspects make sense. That dust-biting line for one. Also, the mystery of where Lefty got the bread to go. And "And all the federales say they could have had him any day" - which "him?" There is not ONE reference to the relationship between the two - it's all implied very vaguely. When not naming names, van Zandt seems to be talking to/about one person - see first verse in particular. Maybe Lefty just got too old to continue the outlaw life as Pancho...

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: X
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 01:47 PM

To fox4zero, The .38 super is a fantastic round, just short of being a .357 in an auto. To bad the US didn't switch to that one. Shooting a big man with a 9mm P just might make him mad.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Stewie
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 06:49 PM

Larry, I'm right for bandaids, thanks. Your 'open mouth' reference brings to mind the opening lines of Les Barker's classic 'Quasimodo':

An unlucky man that Quasimodo
The local people said
He used to be six foot three
But a bell fell on his head
Pigeons used to crap on his hat
Quasimodo was bound to lose
He'd look up open-mouthed, in dismay
But his pigeons all flew round in twos

Cheers, Stewie.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: fox4zero
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 09:43 PM

Stewie

That is the funniest f'cking thing I have read since the Magna Carta....I really LOL! Larry

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 09:58 PM

Naw -- it wasn't the same guy. It was a payoff. "Left the taste of dust in his mouth" and "bit the dust" are two cliches being brilliantly combined in a new line. There is no way the line implies identity of the two people. The mystery of where he got the bread to go is obviously due to the fact that he was on the bum in Mexico, a shiftless gringo, and suddenly got his palm crossed with thirty peices of silver -- enough for a one-way ticket – to Cincinnatti, for crying out loud!! Why would he go there?? THAT's the mystery.

A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Stewie
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 10:03 PM

Larry, rather than thread creep further, I'll PM you the whole thing - it's one of Barker's best.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Stewie
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 10:16 PM

Larry, I just remembered that I have posted it to the forum previously. You'll find it here:

Quasimodo

Cheers, Stewie.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 10:47 PM

Amos - Cleveland!

So how did the dust that Pancho bit get into Lefty's mouth, anyway?

Who's the first verse about? Who is it that the federales could have had any day? Pancho or Lefty? Who the heck is he talkin' to?

How come if Pancho "met his match" and was "laid low," "no one heard his dying words?" Whoever killed him should have heard his dying words. Oops, it never actually says he was killed. Sounds like nobody was there when he was laid low.

Pancho needs your prayers, it's true
But save a few for Lefty, too
He only did what he had to do...

So what is it he had to do?

And if there are two separate guys, what was their relationship? Partners, or did one kill the other? What in the lyrics makes you think so?

I still think it's one guy with a secret identity, sort of like Cleveland's own Batman. (No, Jeri - don't think about a parody...)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 11:34 PM

If we have to get into minutiae, I'd guess that

The day they laid old Pancho low
Lefty split for Ohio
Where he got the bread to go...(etc.)

suggests that we're dealing with two separate people; evidently, the locals knew Lefty and couldn't work out where he got the money for his train-fare from; Pancho, having bit some serious dust, was in no position to comment.  Had they been the same person, somebody local would have known.  We're not talking about Zorro, after all.

Damn good song, mind; been playing backup fiddle on it for years over here in Yorkshire, where we have our fair share of outlaws and biteable dust (though we have moors instead of deserts, and only farmers are allowed to carry guns, inside or outside of their trousers).If we have to get into minutiae, I'd guess that

The day they laid old Pancho low
Lefty split for Ohio
Where he got the bread to go...(etc.)

suggests that we're dealing with two separate people; evidently, the locals knew Lefty and couldn't work out where he got the money for his train-fare from; Pancho, having bit some serious dust, was in no position to comment.  Had they been the same person, somebody local would have known.  We're not talking about Zorro, after all.

Damn good song, mind; been playing backup fiddle on it for years over here in Yorkshire, where we have our fair share of outlaws and biteable dust (though we have moors instead of deserts, and only farmers are allowed to carry guns, inside or outside of their trousers).

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 12:08 AM

Oh, bugger.  Worth saying once, I thought, but twice; probably not. We seem to have been having trouble with the inter-dimensional gateways between here and the rest of the world (or even the top of the street) just lately...

>grumble<

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 01:03 AM

I got carried away on that "guru" rap, mainly cos it's a subject that just happens to interest me a lot...and I have apologized in a PM to Stewie for so doing...it was really off topic, anyway.

Getting back to the Ballad of Pancho and Lefty...I wonder if the line about the Federales letting Pancho get away "out of kindness, I suppose" is a bit satirical...a wry or sarcastic comment on the Federales themselves?

I have NEVER heard of the Federales letting anyone get away out of kindness...it's not a quality they were know for. Sounds more to me like they were making empty boasts, and that Pancho was simply too smart for them...till his luck finally ran out.

He was too smart for Pershing and the US Army (assuming it was Villa the song refers to). Their incursion into Mexico caused Villa's opponents in the Mexican government great damage, but did no harm whatsoever to Villa. He was one clever bandit.

- LH

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 02:53 AM

Geeze you guys!.

"What he had to do" was get the hell out of Mexico, to get back to his own culture, where he was still a loser! The dust is a fucking METAPHOR. Pancho bit the dust. Lefty had to live with the guilt. The reason they let Lefty go was not out of kindness -- that's ramapnat sarcasm -- it is because they had them a paid informer. That's where Lewfty got the bread to go... oh, fuggit...I MUST have something better to do.

The first verse is about Lefty splitting from home (Cleveeand, Cincinnatti, alla same me!). It introduces the character. Then another character gets introduced. Then ... oh, never mind. The song is as plain as the nose on your face. You guys pursuing college degrees or somp'n, trying to make everything other than it is and complicate the universe? Tell ya what -- get a day job, you'll be much happier!

A.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 01:55 PM

Har! Har! Getting a bit testy there Amos... A day job wouldn't be a bad idea at this point, but do you know what the employment scene is like in this town? Even chicken-sexers can't find work here. There is Tim Hortons and McDonalds, but they're looking for teenagers mostly.

I find your analysis of the song to be bang-on. A pity you didn't launch it right at the beginning of this thread, and you could have saved us all a lot of time and trouble, eh? :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Kernow John
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 02:35 PM

Thanks
I'm going looking. KJ

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Just another Townes fan
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 09:57 AM

Hello everyone, I'm just looking for Townes lyrics and ran across mudcat dot.

Anyway, Townes Van Zant, on his live album, explains in length to the crowd where and how Poncho and Lefty was written. I'll let y'all enjoy the recording yourselves but will say it was written in a motel in Texas, according to Townes himself.

Personally, I got to hear stories about Townes while in Nashville. I'll spare you the details and get to the story teller's point; Mr. Van Zant was a prolific writter of extrodinary talent and a style to himself, and music row (as they call it in Nashville) knew it. Moreover, again according to the teller's POV, when the large corporations and or people like Harlen Howard need songs they often could get them by finding Townes, usually on the street somewhere, and putting him up in a cockroach motel and provide alchohol until he was finished writing. Then they would forget about him, again. Now I don't know how true this story is, but I do know the look in this fellows eyes as he told the story and I accept his words as true.

Coincidently, Townes died a week later in Nashville (at one of his former girlfriend or wives home). The paper had a fine bio on Townes and I recall them saying that no one expected much more than a pine box and a few people to say farewell. Amazingly, all types of musicians from all genres attended his funeral. So much so that music row was shut down as dozens, perhaps hundreds of people stood in line to pay their final respects to Townes while three prominent names in the business (I only remember Lyle Lovette, sorry) played alongside. Truly a beautiful goodbye.

Thanks for taking the time, Townes. Your music continues to live in our hearts.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 05:34 PM

Dave T's transcriptions are usually pretty good. His is the second post in this thread. Any corrections, or can we call it a "definitive" version of the lyrics?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 06:37 PM

Attaching van Zandt's Pancho to Francisco Villa is nonsense, of course. Anyone named Francis, Francisco Franklin or variations always ends up as 'Pancho' in New Mexico, northern Mexico, south Tejas or Arizona. Dunno when that started, but I think it was before Villa. It is also a surname.
As an anglo named F-, raised in that area, non-anglo schoolmates called me Pancho. When I went to university in Texas, I thought I had shed the name, but an old mate out of my home town also went there, and when he spotted me, he shouted "Pancho!" Well, I didn't get rid of Pancho until I went to gringo country and joined a multinational. My Pancho didn't die in Cleveland, but nearer Chicago.

Guest and Joe, thanks for bringing the song up top again.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: gecko
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 07:58 PM

Dick Gaughan does a fine version of 'Pancho and Lefty' on his CD Redwood Cathedral, though the song notes for this track are restricted to "I record this as a small personal homage to a fine songwriter" with no printed lyrics - permission could not be obtained to print.

fox4zero: the only thing funnier than reading 'Quasimodo' is to hear Stewie recite it! It's a tradition at all Top Half Folk Festivals in the Northern Territory often accompanied by Stewie's recital of 'The Bastard from the Bush' Onya Stewie!

YIU

gecko

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:06 PM

Yah, thanks from me as well for refreshing this thread. It's another "commercial" song that has haunted me for years, and which I never had seen all the words.

I enjoyed much of the discussion above but I have to acknowledge that Amos has nailed the interpretation, and may even be "Lefty" or the son of "Lefty." I mean, why is he so sure he's right?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:11 PM

This was one of the very first threads I ever read here back in '98 and let me say I have always loved TVZ but the subsequent times this thread appeared I seemed to be in one of my numerous near death experiences. So now it appears once more and I get the chance to read all of the posts........and laugh my ass off!

Though I loved his work, I always had the feeling that he was a supreme wordsmith who was also pretty whacked out.   I still think that's true. For all of you who have tried to provide context, meaning, history, or whatever else to this song.........y'all are fucked up! That's because TVZ himself was fucked up! I saw this show once a few years back on television and now some of it is on YouTube. You'll think twice about doing any analyzing of this song or any of his others afterwards......kinda' hopeless and pretty wasted........much like poor old Townes himself.

Spend 10 minutes here!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 08:16 PM

"Dick Gaughan does a fine version of 'Pancho and Lefty'"

That's a matter of personnal opinion & taste. After hearing him do this, if it were me that wrote it & was dead I'd be spitting out dirt in Dick's face & he'd be bitin dust instead of singing about it.

Barry

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Dec 07 - 10:52 PM

I have heard Panchita used as a diminutive for Francesca. More common is Chita.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Dec 07 - 08:43 AM

Spaw-

The artist is frequently clueless about what the song or other creative work really means. That's why there are critics and fans!

I think it was Bob Franke who explained that as a songwriter he was "mining the collective unconcious." Hmmm, that sounds like the title of a new song!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Dec 07 - 08:48 AM

On the deserts down in Mexico

According to the YouTube thing, should be a singular 'desert'.

Dick does a decent version. It's a bit strange with the accent, but I guess it's no stranger than Americans singing Scots songs. I can't remember who I first heard sing it - Maybe Gaughan, maybe Nancy Griffith - but it's one of the first songs I tried figuring out on guitar.

I like songs that leave 'negative space' for a listener to interpret their own way. I know this drives some people nuts, but I like it because the listener gets to exercise their creativity.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Dec 07 - 10:45 AM

I agree Jeri and Charley.

But negative space for interpretation seems different to me than trying to do analysis finding meaning in every nuance which always sorta' gives me a chuckle..........especially when you later find out that the songwriter had put far less thought into it. We ran a long thread on "Don't Think Twice" but its hard to say what Dylan was actually thinking. And I guess that's what makes some songs great.......they lend themselves to a broad range of interpretations.

But its so enjoyable to find out in this case that Townes didn't have a clue himself. I'd love to see the day where Don McLean comes out and says that "American Pie" was really about the cold winter day his sister broke his record player and trashed his 45 collection while he was out on his paper route.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 01:05 PM

Spaw, you are a man of rare genius. It is simply a good bit of yarn spinning. Amen.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 03:18 PM

I remember, in a story telling workshop, the man running it (Dan Keding, perhaps?)talking about how it was often best to leave out stuff, so the listeners could fill it in themselves, and make the story more vivid and personal. So you don't say "A tall dark-haired man with a bemused expression, wearing a trench-coat...", you say "A man".

It's not the only way, but it's a good way, and it's the way of the old ballads, and of this one too. And it can apply to more than just details like that, it can be motivations and even the actual events. The storyteller gives the bare bones,and the listeners put flesh on the bones and clothes on the body, and what they make of it will be different for all of them.
.................

I'd read it pretty well the same way as Amos did (five years ago - doesn't time fly in these revived threads!) - except that "He only did what he had to do" I'd see as referring to (maybe) selling out Pancho, playing the role of Judas or little Robert Ford, a necessary role in a legend where "poets sing how Pancho fell". But that's just me.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 04:55 PM

I guess that I'm hopelessly old-fashioned, but I find it difficult to comprehend why one would sing a song when one doesn't have the faintest idea of what it's about.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 05:46 PM

So how do you feel about Townes dick? He sang it after writing it and he had no idea what it was about!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 05:51 PM

Geeziz, Dick, that means you couldn't sing a ton of trad songs, dunninit?

Mick

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 06:20 PM

Of course you'd need to have an idea of what any song you sing is about, Dick.

But, with some songs anyway, that needn't necessarily be the same idea as a listener has, or as whoever you learnt the song from, or as whoever made it up in the first place or those who changed it along the way...

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 09:47 PM

"So how do you feel about Townes dick? He sang it after writing it and he had no idea what it was about!"--Spaw

    I don't think about Townes very much, obe way or t'other. IMy lack of comprehension hasn't changed.
   


"Geeziz, Dick, that means you couldn't sing a ton of trad songs, dunninit?"--Big Mick

       No. With a very few exceptions, traditional songs are straightforward and to the point.


"Of course you'd need to have an idea of what any song you sing is about, Dick.

"But, with some songs anyway, that needn't necessarily be the same idea as a listener has, or as whoever you learnt the song from, or as whoever made it up in the first place or those who changed it along the way..." --McGrath of Harlow

      True. But a song that seems to tell a story should, IMO, tell a story; not vaguely suggest one. I"m not attacking TvanZ; I just don't understand what he's doing.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 07 - 10:12 PM

Seems to me he is telling a tale, just as vividly as an Childs ballad does. Mexican bandido gets double crossed by good for nothing gringo who thereby gets his airfare home.

A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: freightdawg
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 12:42 AM

check out the video on You Tube. I can't do the blicky thing with the You Tube address but go to You Tube and search for Pancho and Lefty Willie Nelson. The video is with Willie Nelson as Pancho and Merle Haggard as Lefty, and there is a cameo of Townes Van Zandt at the end of the video. The interpretation of the video is quite interesting - kind of follows some of the suggestions posted above, with maybe a twist or two. It's good stuff.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM

Freightdawg-

What a video! Here's the link but have a neckerchief handy: Click at Your Own Risk!

Did I see Amos in that last clip, raising a beer with Willy?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:17 PM

I like to sing songs that mean something to ME.

I might be interested in the writer's intention, or not.

I think I developed this attitude as I got into Dylan.

A lot of his stuff that I like was probably "triggered" by something or somebody, but the songs were never really about the trigger.

"Motor cycle black madonna two wheeled gypsy queen."
I really don't care who or where or when, I just like the imagery and the rhythm.

Who cares who the "sad eyed lady of the lowlands" really was? Not me. When I sing it I am thinking about MY sad eyed lady of the lowlands.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 03:25 PM

Russ-
They all represent the vague, evocative stuff I refer to. OK if you like it, but not part of any folk tradition I know of.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:13 PM

Dick,
Thanks for the response.

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "tell" and "a" and "story".

I sing several versions of "The cruel mother." That's as traditional as you can get.

They all purport to tell a story, but according to my belief system the story cannot possibly be true.

So when I sing the song I sing it as vague and evocative.
It's a song about infanticide and its consequences, not about a specific instance of infanticide.

I sing Pancho and Lefty as a song about betrayal and its consequences, not about a specific instance of betrayal.

Am I even addressing your point?

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,QuestionMark
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 04:32 PM

Pancho and Lefty is a unique song in that when I play it with others at a jam or partnering with another musician, I don't really care what the song is about at all. It's just the chance to play those TexMex arpeggio fillers and do that one cool chord change on the gitbox before the last line in each verse in the song that makes the song a standout.

QM

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:26 PM

but not part of any folk tradition I know of.

How about St James Infirmary? Just one example of a song which implies a story rather than narrating it, and leaves that story pretty wide open.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 08:55 PM

Russ- I don't demand that a song be realistic. Just comprehensible.

McGrath-
To me, there's a huge difference between an incomplete story and intentional obscurantism. If Pancho and Left makes sense to you, good on yer.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Declan
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 09:02 PM

Its a song with a story. A bit of a mystery story. Many stories dont have a resolved conclusion. There are at least two plausible outcomes suggested on this thread. A third, which suggested itself reading this thread, was that Poncho attacked Lefty, assumed his identity and disappeared to Ohio, leaving Lefty for dead in the desert.   And now he's growing old, something that Poncho had little chance of doing in Ohio. Doesn't seem to me to be any more far fetched than any of the other suggested explanations.

The song presents numerous conclusions. Just enjoy it.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 10:45 PM

The notion that there was a stolen identity makes no sense to me. There are two guys. One betrays the other. The betrayer ends up poor and aging in a cheap motel in Cleveland. The other one ends up dead in the dunes of Mexico.

A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,Question Mark
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:19 PM

Maybe the song was simly Townes Van Zant's TexMex take on Dylan's Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts. Or vice a versa. Which was written first? Weren't they written about the same time...mid 70's? Heck, after hearing Dylan's song, I too wrote a song with an unexplanable story line...it was the cool thing to do as a songwriter at that time.

QM

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 07 - 11:48 PM

I just re-read through the lyrics. It isn't really that mysterious or incomprehensible. There were two sons. One was a peaceful freewheeling drifter/dreamer...that'd be Lefty. The other was a mean gun totin' bandit. That's be Pancho. Pancho lived the real life, Lefty the dreamer life. Pancho got killed. Lefty didn't do so well either, none of his dreamer dreams of being a drift produced much of anything, but a lonely loner's life. Society looked down on both in many ways. Pancho got the lost soul prayers...Townes reminds that Lefty needed some of those prayers, too. I suspect Townes related to Lefty. A good dude drifter, not an outward bad seed...but a lost soul, too. That's my take on it. Probably, why Willie sings it so especially good, with both the "outlaw" and drifter elements in him.

Just my interpretation of the song.

QM

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 12:57 AM

Jerry is well last I heard from him --- but that was an e-mail years ago now; 1998 I think it was. He is a fine singer. One of my favorites. I do believe he was/is still in Dinkytown. And he did this song wondrously well!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 11:51 AM

Fascinating how various the propositions are about what the song says. Lefty and Pancho are now proposed to be brothers, and earlier someone suggested they were alter-egos of the same person.

One of the ads down below leads to the Pandora On-Line radio with TVZ themes.


A

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:01 PM

"The other one ends up dead in the dunes of Mexico."

But he also, perhaps more significantly in the long run, ends up as a folk-hero - "Now poets sing how Pancho fell. As much alive as predecessors like Robin Hood and Jesse James.
.....................................

What typically happens in folk balladry is that it probably starts with a complete version with all the answers provided, but through the proceeds of being handed on this gets pared down to the bone, so that we end with a version in which it open to the imagination of the singer or the listener to fill in the gaps. The end result is less complete in a sense, but there is something gained that can outweigh that.

More often than not, when you go back to the earliest version of some story song in a broadsheet, it just doesn't measure up to what it was transformed into, in the course of being passed along. That's what "the folk process" is centrally about, turning straw into gold.

It seems to me that what Townes van Zandt was doing with this song, intentionally or not - foreshortening the process.

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: GUEST,QuestionMark
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:00 PM

I think you just hit it upon the head by citing "Now poets sing how Pancho fell"...this is a perhaps a song best commenting on sung and unsung heroes. The bandit gets glorified by poets, while the drifter dreamer (the poet...perhaps, Townes himself) only gets the glorified bandit who bit the dust's dust in his mouth...ie. the unglorified life that Townes likely felt he lived as a singer-songwriter.   

QM

Subject: RE: The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 06:32 PM

The best songs, I think, are written out of a pure feeling that comes over a person, and it pours out spontaneously in a completely unplanned way into a song. That doesn't mean that the writer necessarily knows what it's about at the time, though it might be that some of the meanings become more clear to him or her with the singing of the song as time goes by. Other people will find their own personal meanings in it, and new meanings will be found. That's good. The song arose out of powerful feelings of some kind, and it engenders powerful feelings in the listeners...if they are susceptible to it.

If not...(shrug)   Well, then they'll tune into something else instead.

I think the greatest songs are written by something far beyond the writer himself, something way beyond the boundaries of a human being. To let that happen one has to either be quite unaware it's happening...or one has to consciously surrender to something greater. It's surrender, either way...either conscious or unconscious. The song writes itself. The so-called writer is the scribe...his voice is the instrument. He becomes the instrument of what people in a far more worshipful and courtly age than the present one might have called the Allmighty or the Great Spirit.

You have to be without prejudice or judgement in such moments of surrender, seems to me.

And how common is that?

Pancho and Lefty is a great song. Doesn't matter whether or not TVZ had a clue what it was about when or after he wrote it. Does it resonate somehow with the life of Pancho Villa? Yeah, probably, just the way a wave that bounces off the shores of New York will one day kiss the sands of France. It's inevitable. The wave, like the song, is moved by something greater than prejudice or judgement. It goes where it will and arrives in its own time, seen or unseen.

"The cloak and dagger dangles,
Madams light the candles.
In ceremonies of the horsemen,
Even the pawn must hold a grudge.
Statues made of match sticks,
Crumble into one another,
My love winks, she does not bother,
She knows too much to argue or to judge." - Bob Dylan