Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....

Subject: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:33 PM

I jusst got back from Getaway and my kids said the computer was acting strange. WEll, both the CD-R drive and the DVD drive are no longer registering when you open my computer. I put in a CD and pulled up real play and it told me the computer had no CD drive.

This is one time when the kids aren't any help, but they sweaar they didn't do anything....

Help!!

Tinker

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:36 PM

is it windows? what os?

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:38 PM

What kind of computer - PC, Mac?
What Operating System - Win98, WinMe, WinXP?
Have you rebooted to see if the system will find the drives?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:39 PM

It's a Dell system with windows ... I don't know what os means...

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:40 PM

Win98. It's been rebooted a couple of times with no luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:41 PM

OS = operating system. windows 95? 98? ME? 2000? NT?

It could be as simple as a loose cable.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:43 PM

AS you know Mario my house did get torn apart several times over the past week.. I'll stop and check the back... DUH.. Let's see

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:50 PM

I've gone over the connections in the back and Every connection is not only functional, but I know where it goes. ( power, keyboard, mouse, camera, monitor, printer, sound and mic ). The drives are built in.

When I plug in the camera it comes up as the D drive instead of the F drive.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:57 PM

I actually meant one of the internal cables - either the data cable or a power cable? But not everyone is comfortable opening up the 'puter to check on that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 02:58 PM

Honest I don't know how....

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 03:01 PM

Tinker - Do you have Dell Support on the computer? They are VERY good over the phone - normally - they have managed to talk my B-I-L through things over the phone - and I can't do that when I am standing next to him! (But that is HIS problem...)

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 03:01 PM

well right click on my computer and go to device manager

if it is windows 2k or xp go to hardware then go to device manager.

look for those drives....do you see any red or yellow marks next to them?

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 03:09 PM

Before you do too much more, check the "Recycle Bin" in Windows Explorer and see if there are any files there that end with either .dvr or .dll.

It sounds as though your CD-R and DVD drivers have been deleted.

Each of those drives will normally require a driver installation for the Win98 system to recognize them. (The "driver" is just a small program that tells your computer how to run the drive.) You should have at least a "recovery" or "installation" CD from Dell that you can use to get them back, or separate disks from the mfrs if the drives were added after you got the machine, if that's the problem.

There's also the possibility that you've lost an internal connection, so take a look and see if any lights come on, and/or if you can hear the drives spin if you put a disk in.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 03:18 PM

Amergin -

Win98 makes it harder to get to device manager. The simplest way to get in is to click the START button, then the HELP that's on the list. Click the Index or Search tab, then type Device Manager. Click Device Manager in the list of subjects that comes up, click Display, and there's a link you can click to open System Properties.

(There are other ways, but this is usually easiest for those not too familiar)

The above should open System Properties, with the Device Manager already selected. Click the "+" beside Drives, and see if it shows the drives, and if there are red marks to indicate they've been turned off.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 03:20 PM

sorry i forgot a step in win98...right click on my computer click on properties go to device manager... ;) it works the same in ME

in 2k and xp you have to right click my computer click properties click the hardware tab then the device manager buton....

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 05:48 PM

You should get under the hood to see if there are any loose wires. Open it up--do you have a panel that removes very easily? Try that (on mine the right side comes off). Just get a flashlight and look in there. Save the embarrassment of having them tell you to do the same thing and find a loose plug. . .

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 06:10 PM

But if you do that make sure you unplug anything that plugs into the PC before you do that, and touch the metal case before you touch anything inside. However, if the case hasn't been opened, there's no reason any of the connections inside should have come adrift.

This happened to me a little time ago, with a second hard drive, and it turned out it was a missing driver file. If it's that, it should be pretty easy to sort out, and Mario's advice about the help line is the way to go about sorting out out.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 06:14 PM

Well they seem to have disappeared, and the recycle bin is empty.Nothing is listed in Red under Display manager. But I can't figure out how to open the box. The lights do go on, so something activates when I put in a CD. So I'll give Dell a call tommorrow while the kids are in school and I can concentrate. If I suddenly disappear for a few days you know why.

Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the help.

Tinker

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 09:58 PM

The most likely thing is that the drivers have gotten lost. I'd suggest talking to Dell support; but they'll probably ask you to dig out your Windows installation disk, so you might want to see if you can find it before you call.

They may also ask for your "Service Code" which should be either on the setup CD or in your "Operating Manual." If you've called them before, they may have given you a "customer number," which speeds things up if you can find it. You can work around all these records with them, if you're persistent. They usually do their best to get you back in operation.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Amergin
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 03:05 AM

Yeah...sometimes Windows will drop the drivers...and you can only find their ghosts in safe mode...go into safe mode delete them...and then reboot into normal mode and then chances are you can reinstall them...

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 05:38 AM

Does the BIOS find the drives when the PC is booting up ? - you might find that the easiest way to see the boot screen is to shutdown with the restart option - that way you don't miss it while the monitor is warming up. You could also go into the BIOS setup program and have a look to see if they've been detected. This usually involves holding down a key (often DEL sometimes F2) as the PC is booting - there's usually a message which comes up at the beginning to tell you which. If the hardware isn't finding the drives then Windows won't.

If the BIOS is detecting the drive OK, then follow Amergin's advice, if not then it's most probably one of the internal cables which has gone astray. Most PCs have two IDE ports, each of which is capable of handling two drives. I expect that your hard drive(s) are connected to the primary one and that the CD/DVD ones are connected to the secondary one. IDE drives require two main connecting leads, a 40-way ribbon cable for data and control and a 4-pin power cable. The 40-way cable for the CD/DVD drives should have one end connected to the motherboard and there will be two connectors on the other end - one for each drive (they're interchangeable). The side of the cable marked red usually points to the power connector side of the drive. The 4-pin power connectors have curved corners on one side and will only fit in one way. The 40-pin cable is the usual offender, it only needs to be not pressed in properly at one end to stop the drive working. CD/DVD drives usually have a small 4-pin cable for sound etc when playing back non-data disks, but these wouldn't stop the drive being detected if they weren't connected.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 07:09 AM

If the BIOS detects the drive, Win98 will normally stop and ask you for a driver for it. The plug-and-play functionality isn't as good as in newer OS versions, but it usually does ok. And if the BIOS finds the drives, they should show, with an X-out, in Device Manager. If you tell Win98 Device Manager to add hardware, and feed it a driver, it will search, more thoroughly than the normal BIOS check, to try to find something to drive, and will usually come up with anything that the PnP/BIOS check missed.

Any machine still using Win98 is likely old enough to have something other than IDE CD-ROM hookups, and may require an AutoEx.bat or Config.sys line to mount the CD drive. Most likely the DVD is an add-on, and probably is IDE. DVD's weren't around much when Win98 was current.

The biggest glitch is that all the installation/recovery software is probably on a CD, which he can't read until he gets the CD drive up. The Dell help desk can most likely hook him up to download the right driver file(s), they can tell from his model number if that's what he needs, and the drivers can be installed with Device Manager in normal Windows mode, or by typing the call into Config.sys if that's what's necessary.

It was fairly common, when Win98 was new, for the CD drivers to be on a separate floppy, since the floppy came with the CD that was installed by the builder, and for situations like this where you have to get the CD drive up to read your recovery CD. IF he still has the "boot floppy" that Win98 offered to make for him the first time he turned it on, his CD driver, and Config.sys to turn it on, should be on it - unless he's changed drives and didn't make a new one.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 07:10 AM

Dave B beat me to it! If no-onbe has had the box open it is not likely to be loose cables - but you never know;-)

However. If for some reason, such as the battery running out, the bios settings have been lost you will need to rediscover your disks at bios level.

I don't know Dell particularly but the favourites to get into setup mode are F2, F10 or Delete. The boot up screen often prompts you.

Big 'BUT' here though. Don't mess with any of the settings you don't understand! If there is a bios menu item saying 'set bios to defaults' or some such - take it. Then go and check in disk drives or peripherals or whatever menu option it is to detect disks and do an auto detect. Once it can see the three disks (hard drive, cd and dvd) then let it boot up into windows. If you still can't see them - Yes you have a windows problem:-(

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 07:47 AM

John - I've just built a brand new PC and loaded Win98SE on it - it's a good stable operating system with very few compatibility problems for most users.

Most bootable CDs (including the Win98SE install one) have their own special version of the MSCDEX routine which allows a drive letter to be assigned to a CD drive. A win9x boot floppy disk should also contain the support for a CD drive. If the BIOS setup includes CD Drive in it's boot sequence settings it should be possible to boot from it providing it is enabled in those settings, has been detected by the BIOS, and is workin OK.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 08:28 AM

There's nothing really wrong with Win98SE, but Mickey$oft doesn't sell it anymore, doesn't support it, and will NOT issue new updates and security fixes for it. (You can still get $upport from Microsoft, but on a $$Pay$$Per$$Call$$ basis only. "Free" support ended about a year ago.)

While it is stable enough for many uses, it is nowhere near the stability and reliability you get with WinXP. (Of course it's nowhere near the SIZE of WinXP, and will run well on machines that can't handle WinXP or Win2K.)

When Win98 was considered the "standard" OS, few machines were set up to boot from CD - they often could be, but CD boot was seldom turned on. Even the XP laptop I bought from Dell a couple of years back didn't have CD boot turned on - as delivered. It depends a lot on when the system in question was produced, and how many changes have been made.

One of the problems with CD boot is that the BIOS has to find the CD before it can read the MSCDEX driver to give the CD drive a drive name. In the present case, the BIOS isn't finding it, or it would at least be listed in Device Manager - even if not functional (usually).

And it's always possible that the kids really did try to play a peanut butter sandwich in the CD drive. (Or more likely, got a "stuck" CD and "forced" the drive open.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 09:50 AM

Okay, I confess I am way over my head. We actually got the computer in January of 2000 and because I wanted it to be "current" as long as possible had Dell put in the DVD drive and CDR but they were both fairly new at that point. I actually find two IDE's listed but I have no clue what they mean. Being a wise woman (scroll to picture three between Kendall and ColK.) I know when I am over my head. All of my set up disks are CD rom which drive is,of course, not to be found.

I will call my neighborhood computer repair guy and see if we can fix this one up enough for the kids to use and start planning Christmas presents for the grownups.


Love Ya all,

Tinker

Thanks guys.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 02:24 PM

An IDE (most likely really and EIDE) has two separate "channels," each of which can connect two devices. Typically, your bootable hard drive (C:\) will be on the "Primary" connector of one channel. Your floppy drive (A:\) will use another connection, typically the "Secondary" of either EIDE channel.

If you got something like a ZIP drive, fairly common in 2000, it would use another connection, either of the two left available, leaving only one connection available for other devices.

To connect both a CD and a DVD, you would need 2.

Even if you don't have the ZIP, using all the available connections would leave you no place to hook up an add-in like another hard drive, so it would be good practice for Dell to add a second EIDE card even if connections for both the CD and DVD were available.

The "main" EIDE controller is often "built in" to the motherboard, or is on a small "plug-in." The added EIDE controller will almost certainly be in one of your "expansion slots," basically a row of connectors provided for adding components.

Next to cables and cable connectors, the expansion slot connectors are probably the prime suspect when something stops working. (That's assuming no one has messed with the software setup.) If Dell put both the CD and the DVD on the "added" EIDE controller, it might explain why they both quit at the same time - there's a problem with the card(?).

If you can get local assistance, it should be fairly simple (although perhaps tedious) to track down the problem.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: MMario
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 07:54 PM

The computer *has* been moved a few time recently if I understand correctly - and if the drives are on an expansion board it may have "popped" from the slot....

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 09:00 PM

Okay I'll probably disappear early next week when I bring it in to be checked out.... Yes Mario everything in the damn house got moved. There has to be a song about the horrors of bedbugs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: artbrooks
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 11:21 PM

I've had a couple of Dells (have one now) and they can be a bit tricky to open up. The original instruction book should have directions in it. As several folks have said, open it and check all of the physical connections before you call...otherwise they will have you doing it while they are on the phone.

By the way, Dell has gone offshore...to India...for much of their technical support. I called them about 3 weeks ago (several times) and spoke to at least two techs who may have been completely knowledgable but their version of English was enough different from mine that we couldn't understand each other.

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 11:53 PM

"English is broken here," eh Art? I've had a similar experience with some of the technical people from Earthlink.

Oooooh, Tinker--Bedbugs? I've been reading about them lately. Sound absolutely horrible to try to get rid of. Did you manage to erradicate them?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:50 AM

So - do you have your dives back?

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:55 AM

What about Lazarus ?

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:08 AM

ulways prufred!

Subject: RE: Tech: Help D and E Drives disappeared....
From: Tinker
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:47 AM

Mario my dive pub is still in the basement, but I Need to wait til the marking term ends on Friday to have someone muck around the computer. As long as kids can compose and print, we need to get this quarter's work off. Then if it crashes and burns in the repair process life won't be quiet so dramatic.