The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull

Subject: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 11:54 AM

I am indulging myself in a little nostalgia here.

Who remembers the Rugby folk club in dock street hull?

In its day possibly one of the best folk clubs in britain.

Regular residents were ;Ian Manual (Jock) Jill Pidd, Mike Waterson and Jim Eldon.

I have seen many fine performers there over the years it was running, including Luke Kelly,Ewan Mcall and Peggy Seeger,Christy Mooore, The Fureys, The Watersons, Fred Jordan,Mike Harding, Bob Davenport,Dick Gaughan,Martin Carthy, Tony Capstick amd Vin Garbutt and many more.
The Hostelry is still there, sadly not a patch on what it used to be like.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: The DeanMeister
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 12:30 PM

Was I born then, Michael?

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 12:32 PM

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell it just depends on which age you are admitting to today.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 01:28 PM

Well of those only Jock is (sadly) no longer alive. As I remember, it was set up by a kind of friendly (or not so friendly) breakaway group from the Bluebell which was Folk Union One.

I would question some of the guests you recall seeing there though. I doubt if Ewan and Peggy appeared there, and I would also question Luke Kelly, since if they had appeared there I reckon I would have rushed to see them. The only appearance of Ewan and Peggy in Hull that I remember was during "National Folk Week", to my knowledge they never appeared at any folk club. And I was a huge fan of theirs so I would have gone there.

But it was a while ago and I do lose a bit more memory every day.

I remember Tony Capstick who was often booked there, telling a story of how he had got there early for one gig and two drunken sailors walked up to the bar and ordered "Two drinks please". It was that sort of pub.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:24 PM

Well Dave,my memory is very good even after all these years. Luke Kelly was apearing with the "Dubliners" at the city hall on that occasion and dropped in after the gig.That same night Martin Carthy Dick Gaughan and Christy Moore popped in on the off chance - Brilliant and unplanned and it was a singers night. At the time I think it was 50pence to get in. Ewan and Peggy were certainly there, both together and seperatly.You mention the "Bluebell"Folk Union One club. I remember very clearly Peggy Seeger being there.


Yeh you are quite right about the breakaway from the "Bluebell"

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:29 PM

Wow dave!!!!.Just checked out your web site.You may remember me in my other life trading under the name of Mick McGarry.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 05:09 AM

Mick

You will recall that I was taken away from Hull in 1963 and missed all of this. However, I did attend the Grimsby FC from 1964 to 1969 and saw most of the people you mention appearing there. In addition I also remember seeing Davy Graham, The McPeake Family, Finbar and Eddie Furey, Dave and Toni Arthur, Ian Campbell Folk Group (with Swarbrick on fiddle), Three City Four (Leon Rosselson, Roy Bailey etc), New lost City Ramblers, Paul Simon and many more.

I wasn't performing myself in those days and only joined my first folk band in 1974 after moving from Manchester to the north of Scotland so I am a mere stripling in the performing stakes compared to you . The band consisted of two accordion players and me on guitar and vocals and my scariest moment was playing Buckie Golf Club and having to sing Flower of Scotland - I was the only Englishman in the room, it was late and there had been some drink taken!

Rog

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Bassic
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:29 AM

Mick, you swine! Do you realise that this is pure torture that you are putting me through? Although I was only seven in 1963 I would have been there with my nose squashed up against the pub window from the outside and would have been sneaking in the back way at the Bluebell etc IF SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME WHAT WAS GOING ON!! It was YOUR fault! I blame you personally!!!!

Instead I had to survive a misserable childhood of classical music lessons and was not guided to the "light" of Folk and Traditional Music until I was aged 43, by our mutual piping friends. Do you realise that if you had been there to infulence me at that impressionable age I might have been quite good by now! Who knows, I might even gave been good enough to have been a roadie for PTH!

Joking apart, what it does illustrate is what a great shame it is that so much of that quality traditional music is no longer to be found in the City of Hull and how important it is that children and young people have the chance to be exposed to it without having to have "interested parents". It should be happeneing in schools, saturday afternoon workshops that are not closed to children because of the venue (licencing laws), it should be funded as part of our cultural heritage as it is in many other countries, otherwise the "60`s" generation will see this die with them in most parts of the UK.

I know there are exceptions to this situation, Folkworks in the N.East, and occasional funded projects and workshops in schools by some professional and semi-professional musicians, but there is scope for SO much more! I wish I had the tallent and knowlege to do it myself.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:05 AM

Here Here!!!! bass man.My chum in Ireland, that prince among men Billy Mckenna teaches young people the guitar.He told me once that there was an instrument under every bed in Ireland and he was doing his small bit in getting them out from under beds and played.More power to him!!!

Ian campbell folk group eh rog? I thought it was only me who had even heard of them. I still have an original piece of vynal put out be them priced ten bob!!!!!

I have thought of one or two more from those heady magical days of the sixties and early seventies.Alistair Anderson,Louis Killen,Dereck and Dorothy Elliot, the Elliots from Birtley,Tommy Gillfellon,Johny Handle,Seamus Ennis,Maggie Barry and Michael Gorman, Joe Heaney,Peta Webb,Isabel Sutherland,Benny Graham,Peg leg Ferret,Pete Betts,Swan Arcade,The Gaugers,Sean Cannon. A lot of these are still going strong and at risk of critism from Guest Dave nearly all of them played at the Rugby and the Bluebell,

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 03:00 AM

feresh

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 02:48 PM

Certainly I am happy to stand corrected on any point of these - never try to make criticism especially where memory is concerned these days.

I spoke to Louis, Alistair and Johnny at a bookstall I was running last Saturday at Folkworks and all were in great fettle, though Johnny had lost some hair. Jill Pidd from the Rugby was there too.

I haven't seen Tommy for a number of years, Benny I see at New Year occasionally, I understand PLFerret are reformed, certainly there was one of them there last weekend (the great big one!!) In fact of that list I can only not think of the Gaugers that I did not see or know.

I do remember you McGarry of course - once met etc...... and the main thing I remember about you were the two letters you had tattoed. In fact I have had secret conversations with your wife across the ether to see if it was the same you. I doubt I would recognise you now except if I saw the two letters referred to.

Regards and thanks for some great memories.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:40 AM

The letters are still there Dave!!



see if you recognise me

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Thornton Curtis
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 09:31 AM

Gentlemen
Time to move on to pastures new, there is a whole new world out there ready for you to explore. The past may I remind you has gone, move on, you will not find it again, you are dreaming.
Hope this helps chaps.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 01:49 PM

I have moved on a number of times!! Steeleye Span was first, and Guichen Quartet are the latest - remember you heard there name here first.

McGarry - recognised you straight away!!! (not really)

However - email me off list - swap you stories of Rob Lennox for ones about Jim the Fish!!

the addy is on my website - www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:08 AM

feresh, 9i herad about this place but i neber been.john
ps, i;m eating an orange, god for you and only 10p, from joihn websters on chants ave.john

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Pete Betts
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:56 PM

The Landlord was a good lad. Really foul mouthed - he'd take the P8SS out of you, all in the best possible taste - as someone used to say, so everyone could have a laugh , but he'd do it in a manner which didn't isolate you , a bit of a showman really but his heart was in the right place . Upstairs used to put a metal keg of Bass on the counter-great stuff but a bit too easy to drink.
Best regards to you all and a special thanks to Ossonflags for a mention in his message 19 Nov 03 - 08:05 AM.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:31 PM

I seem to remember his name as Trevor.Can anyone confirm that?. Jusat to prove my memory is not as bad as I think it is?

Regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:25 AM

Yeh Dave, his name was trev elland and his missus val.

Hiyah Bettsy!! it is a long time since you and I quaffed a few.Only talking about you a few weeks ago to Jill Pidd - we had a "Rugby Pub" reunion in the "King Billy" in Hull and a few from the old days turned up.


ossonflags who used to be called - Mick Mcgarry

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Pete Betts
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 10:53 AM

Hiya Mick ,
Lovely to hear from you,you would n't believe where I'm writing from -so I won't tell ya - ask Jill and you won't believe her either.
Folkiedave sez Trevor was his name - and I wouldn't argue with that.
Ian Dury probaly wrote a song about him.
Hope you're still enjoying a swallie !!!!!!!!
Catchyalata,
Pete.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 05:59 AM

Go on !! tell us pete.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 03:16 PM

And I saw Jill in Newcastle about three weeks ago and the name McGarry was mentioned.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Pete Betts
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 06:49 AM

Mick - Be patient - Jill/Johnny Taylor will tell you .You would think I was pulling your plonker if I told you. Honest !!

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 06:48 AM

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 01:21 PM

"I wanted much more, than a duet with you
But the Rugby Hotel was the best we could do......"

Nigel

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 10:49 AM

What a great thread. Over the years I sang in Hull many times, at the Rugby, and Folk Union One, also at South Cave. I remember the pleasure I got from these gigs because of the knowledgeable and appreciative audiences, and the wealth of talent from the floor. The first time I heard Jim Eldon, one of the best IMO, was as a floor singer at the Folk Union One. I looked forward to my Hull gigs so much that I once arrived for one of them a week early!
Ian (Jock) Manuel, bossman of the Rugby Folk Club was an unforgettable character, famous for actions such as throwing out in mid-set a guest band who met with his disapproval, and for standing for parliament with a party of his own making called the 'Get Stuffed Party. Thus if a TV interviewer asked him 'And what is the name of your party Mr Manuel? he could truthfully reply 'get stuffed'. I'm sure that a bookful of Jock Manuel stories would be easily possible, he was that kind of bloke. If anybody ever does write one I'll be first in the queue for a copy.   But there was more to Jock than just the rumbustious front he put up. He deeply loved traditional songs, especially his Scottish ones, and was just as deeply appreciative of a good singer, famous or no. He was a very good singer himself as his two Topic albums will prove.His voice was rough-edged and growly, with a heavy Scots accent, but the sense of style he had, and the rhythm and drive he put into a song was outstanding. He was particularly good at the Scottish bothy ballads.

It was his enthusiasm and example that helped make the Rugby one of the best folk clubs I have ever visited. I'm sad now to think that I can no longer get the train to Paragon station, and make my way to one of the Hull folk clubs. They were fine examples of everything that a folk club should be, but thankfully I still have my memories.   Thanks Ossonflags for starting this thread.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:02 AM

Thanks for that burl, especially the kind words about Jock who I counted as my best friend.Truly as they say in Ireland "you will not see his like again" Do you have another name other than "burl" that I would recognise?

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Pete Betts
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:22 PM

Mick ,
Bet you a shilling Burl and ?as in Dave

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:21 PM

And you weren't the only person who did that Burl (Dave), Roy Harris once did it too. We were so popular in those days. And if you haven't heard the Andy Kershaw programme of Jim let me know off list.

Regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 06:05 PM

Thanks Burl for your comments about the Rugby and about Jock. Those of us who had the good fortune to know him and hear him sing realise that such gems of people come round only too rarely.

The memories of the last night at the Rugby (falling attendances had brought about its closure) will stay with may for ever. Sitting in those big armchairs and Bob Davenport's voice filling the room...

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: White Dove
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 05:13 PM

Hi there Les ..just remembering

it was a real struggle to keep up the numbers and a so sad when we had to finally close the 'Folk Union One'

The Hull Folk scene has never been as fine as the smoky blue room at the Bluebell when I used to sneak in like an under aged little kid, it was there I had my first taste of those amazing chorus nights and harmonies. some brilliant singers like these guys here :-)

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 09:16 AM

For Folk Union One people used to queue outside the pub before 7.00 pm opening time. Amazing.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 07:49 AM

T'was always thus at the Rugby in its day.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,exbluebeller
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 02:20 PM

I've just found this thread and it brought back some good memories.

The Landlord of the Rugby was Trevor Elland, his wife was Val and his dog was Teddy (large hairy German Shepherd).
Many artists have been named but the regulars in the bar, who sometimes wandered upstairs, also deserve a mention. In no particular order, Big John Robby, Ted the Trash, Fish Jim, Tommy the Commy and Pete the Stick come readily to mind.
Jock delivered coal for the COOP and used to finish his round to get to the Rugby by 2-00pm. Trevor used to take his holiday the same time as Jock because , so he said, his takings would be down so much in Jocks absence that there would not be enough in the till to get nicked!
Mick Robinson of the Heyworth Garage,( Beverley Road next to Heyworth pub), taped many sessions at the Rugby and the Bluebell. His tapes would be a fascinating archive. Has anyone know what happened to them

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Betsy
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:05 PM

Ah Exbluebeller !!! Happy days - great lad Mick Robbo - well loved by everyone.
Mick, his wife Nancy and daughter Mindy ( Robinson ) - opposite the garage lived Sean McManus and his wife.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 03:57 AM

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,another ex bluebeller who manned the door
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 11:14 AM

Stevie Gardham lived above the garage for a while.
Mick and his family were a wonderful gang og people.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,christy moore
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 09:04 PM

The Rugby was one of the best...great organisers, Landord and Lady(Trevor and Val), very well kept Cameron's ale,(Trev very fussy about his pipes),a host of floor singers who could sing (and drink) most guests under table, always a good hooley after in Tozers,good mates-Ian,Mike,Jill,Jules,JimFish,Joe9o,Mick Robbo and a 100 others...twas there that Mike sang Pontchartrain and Van Diemen's to me and we went dwall flunkin in Beverly...over and back on the ferry til opening time, stay over for The Blue Bell..come for a night stay for a week...great songs,lovin company and wild quaffing

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 02 Apr 10 - 09:59 PM

Nice to see an interesting thread regurgitated.
Gives me a chance to correct a couple of errors.
1) McColl and Seeger definitely appeared at the Bluebell. It was before I was doing the bookings and I would put it as about 1968.
2) I see on another site that Paul Simon is listed as appearing at the Rugby in 1964. I know the club did not start until after 1966 so he cannot have done so.
Although there were not as many publications about in those days I would think someone could find the correct dates for some of the occasions mentioned at all the Hull clubs.
Doc Rowe has a full set of the local "Folk News" up to a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:18 AM

I remember Ian Campbell Folk Group. They did exist :-)

http://www.brumbeat.net/iancampb.htm

Ian Campbell Folk Group - Marilyn Monroe Did she ever get there Mick?

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:34 AM

oops, just realised how old the thread is.

Hope you are well Malcolm.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM

Les
you've really stirred up memories for me. As a student in Birmingham from 64 to 67 I used to go to Ian Campbell's Jug of Punch folk club in The Crown. That's where I saw Paul Simon for the first time. That's also where I became hooked on folk music , having had my appetite whetted by occasional visits to The Bluebell whilst in the 6th form at Malet Lambert in Hull. I never made it to The Rugby. Having spent most of the 70s listening to jazz with the occasional folk club visit thrown in ,it wasn't till the last couple of years of the 70s that I began performing folk and then becoming a regular at Nellies in Beverley.
geoff

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:30 AM

Blimey Geoff, I just might have been in the same audience as you :-)
Les

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:13 AM

If you can still remember it, you weren't there. Oh that's summat else i'nt it.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:55 PM

Yes I'm fine thanks and enjoying retirement. Should have done it when I was 25 (yes I was once). As McGarry used to say "if I was any better I couldn't stand myself".

Although I was singing regularly at the Bluebell when the Rugby started I can remember being really chuffed when Mike Waterson asked me if I would join them (him and Jock) at this new club they were starting.

I said I would love to (not my exact words) but would only be able to make it occasionally because of my work commitments at the time - and so I did and enjoyed every one of my visits and have some great memories and a few recordings from those halcyon days.

I also used the pub as an alternative watering hole to the Bluebell and have some interesting memories of some of the characters who didn't attend the club. You would not have argued with the darts team but they were pussy cats really and had a great collective sense of humour.

The Rugby was one of the few pubs left in those days that still ran a slate for favoured customers and that was an occasional bonus for Jock (and one or two more).

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: stallion
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 03:34 AM

Unbelievable, I spend a lot of my time kicking myself that although I worked at the Post Office in Alfred Gelder street/Lowgate 70/72 I never made it to the Blue Bell, I do remmember seeing Stan Hugill, I think it was at the Mainbrace on Beverley Road, dunno a long time ago!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 09:34 PM

Rugby in Particular & Hull clubs in general.

Don't want to hog this one but I am reminded that we met up with Peggy (Seeger) a couple of years ago in New Zealand and she vividly recalled being at the Bluebell, describing the room in great detail and commenting, without prompting, on the high standard of singing in the club.
So sometimes it's a two way journey.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: ossonflags
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 03:06 AM

Yep, remember that slate Mal; both Jock and I figured heavilly on that!! it was on the back of an old calender!!

On the night of the official closing of the Rugby (it took about three goes as I recall) Jock got the calender as a mememto, Robbo got the dartboard and I got the double brass tap from the last cask to be served in the Rugby and the hand painted Camerons sign from the front of the pub.

I was in the Refurbished Rugby the other day, not a patch on the old place I may say when you could stand behind the bar and look down into the cellar through the cracks in the floor!!

A great time.

Subject: RE: The 'Rugby Hotel' folk club - Hull
From: GUEST,Dom McKenzie
Date: 07 May 10 - 07:53 AM

I was at University in Hull from 1971 to 1974; and although I never went to the Rugby Hotel Folk Club I did see Ewan McCall and Peggy Seeger at the Ferrands Arms Folk Club in Bingley about that time. I know they appeared in local folk clubs because as avowed Communists they believed in the Working Class people!

Once Jon Rennard was killed I lost interest in folk - it just wasn't as good any more! However, I do remember going to a great 'Gasworks' gig in Hull - 'verabilise your pre-orgasmic tensions', etc.

And I still treasure my Get Stuffed Party Poster from the Students' Union to which some wag had added - 'Next year, the whole world can Get Stuffed!'

Treasured memories indeed.