Folklore: Why do folkies have beards

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Tony minus cookie
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 06:38 PM

I always found shaving a painful experience. Also the opportunities for washing let alone shaving are limited at a serious folk festival (or on an extended bushwalk) - in Australia at any rate - and most women seem to prefer a beard to the hedgehog effect of a day or two's growth.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 01:10 PM

"...Monkeys can do it..."

But as I pointed out, monkeys don't generally have beards.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:48 PM

Clinton, it's not a matter of targeting your own mouth with a fork (an easy task for most normal folks). That's not the problem. Gravity happens. Basic cosmology. Think about it. It is rocket science.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Gurney
Date: 23 Nov 03 - 12:17 AM

Joe_F, wouldn't you say that anyone who is involved in a hand-to-hand battle who grabs an opponant's beard is asking for the stab in the gut he will surely get? That Charles MacKay sounds like an armchair warrior. Anyone with the mentality of a cockroach of a would surely use his shield arm for his shield.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:13 PM

For many, many years I had no beard. I'd start the morning by lathering up, scraping my face with a sharp blade (as others in this thread have pointed out) and then covering all of the bleeding spots with a tiny piece of toilet paper to help stop the bleeding. Often when the paper was removed the bleeding would resume and the process would have to be repeated.   Sometimes, in a hurry the shaving stick would be used causing an unpleasant stinging sensation. Also at times during the summer I'd develop a rash under my chin.   

After growing a beard I noticed that it was possible to skip the blood bath and enjoy a few extra minutes enjoying breakfast. Time for a second cup of coffee etc.   

Spending a great deal of time outside over the years often in the sun, I developed numerous skin cancers. They were mainly pre cancers and only one had to be surgically removed. The dermatologists told me that it was probably a good thing that I had a beard.

While sailing I try to sail a course that will put me in the shade of the sails. If that's not possible I face away from the sun. Doing this I frequently got sun burn on the back of my neck. Hmmm, remembering the comments of the dermatologists I decided to grow long hair on the back of my head. It seemed to do the trick and I'd planned to cut it of in the winter. Then, while working in the woods I noticed that hair actually helped warm the back of my neck. Well, now you have a bearded, long haired hippy, eh?   Oh yea, I play folk music to boot.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Joe_F
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:51 PM

My impression from NEFFA festivals is that in America as well, folkies are more often bearded than the general run of men. However, in recent years the distinction has gotten fuzzed out, so to speak, by a fashion among the young for funny little beards. Even some of the folkies have those.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 05:16 PM

Aussies, we haven't said anything about Aussie Folkies. At a recent folk festival I noted the beards because I was searching for Giok. I found that the folkies playing Australian Bush music, mostly had beards, wonderful ones - all types, bushy and trim. One friend has the most amazing mustache which he carefully curls upward. The Bluegrass musicians, and the Blues players, were cleanshaven. My true-love (American - White blues/Traditional American) is currently doing the Lincoln look - no mustache and a neat beard. The others were a mixed bunch but most had beards.
It was unseasonally cold so I couldn't see any female armpits.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Alice
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:44 PM

If I kiss a man, I want to feel the smooth skin of his cheek and chin, I want to see his features, not the beard (no offense to you whiskered ones).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:20 PM

" Checked your beard for groceries lately, Clinton? "

It's eating... it's not rocket science... Monkeys can do it...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:16 PM

Let's see. Dave Van Ronk, Eric von Schmidt, at least two members of Peter, Paul and Mary, Stan Rogers, Bob Gibson (at one time), Mark Spoelstra, Dave Grisman, Barry Kornfeld, Shel Silverstein, Artie Traum, Bruce Langhorne, Bob Dylan (at one time), Frank Hamilton, Pete Seeger, etc., etc., etc. Maybe it is just normal for Southern Christian types NOT to have beards?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 04:02 PM

Looks like my observation about folkie beards being a British thing is pretty much corroborated. Any idea why beards are more common on British folkies than Amurican ones?

Jerry

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 02:34 PM

Another theory as to why Alexander shaved was that early on, people said of him, "He has accomplished so much, and yet he is only a beardless youth!" It stroked his ego, so he shaved to maintain his youthful appearance in hopes that they'd keep saying it.

Checked your beard for groceries lately, Clinton?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Menolly
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:17 PM

I have to admit I would far rather cuddle up to a beard than a nasty scratch five o'clock shadow. I dislike getting a rash from a scratchy chin - if one ever comes that close ! :-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:07 PM

The odd thing is, gorillas and chimps are hairy enough, but they don't grow beards. Nor do most other animals, aside from goats.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 11:21 AM

"In this world of toil and sin, you head gets bald but not your chin" - Burna Shave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Joe_F
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:23 AM

"Alexander the Great thought that the beards of the soldiery afforded convenient handles for the enemy to lay hold of, preparatory to cutting off their heads; and, with a view of depriving them of this advantage, he ordered the whole of his army to be closely shaven."
-- Charles Mackay, "Influence of Politics and Religion on the Hair and Beard", in _Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds_ (2nd ed., 1852)

There is a good deal of other curious information in that little chapter -- indeed, in the entire book, which is available online at
http://www.econlib.org/library/Mackay/macEx.html

I have had my beard since 1965, without interruption.

Let me close with the advice in Samuel Butler's _Hudibras_, with which that chapter opens:

...Speak with respect and honour
Both of the beard and the beard's owner.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:14 AM

I don't mind the men having beards, but some of the women naw.

(Only kidding women folk singers/musicains)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,The O'Meara
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 08:04 AM

As pointed out above, in order to have a beard a male needs to do nothing whatsoever, but in order to not have a beard he must scrape his face with a piece of sharp metal every day. So the real question is: why do some men not have beards?

So here's the answer. Shaving became popular among the soldiers of Alexander the Great because he was the greatest leader any of them knew about and they were his followers. Alexander shaved because he was queer as a three-dollar bill and wanted to have a more femminine face. (My theory, anyway.) So shaving became "femminine" (submissive.)Since shaving became a mark of submission, willing to abide by the rules, beards, then, became symbols of rebellion and outlawry. The word "Barbarian" means hairy-face and indicates one who lives outside civilised society.

Beards also indicate masculinity, or agression.In medieval times serfs were clean shaven, knights had a mustache, princes a short beard and kings a large woolly growth, being the most masculine, virile, s.o.b. on the block. (See portraits of Henry VIII.)

All that carries over into today's world. Beards around the corporate conference table are exceedingly rare, but fairly common among mountain men, outlaw bikers and folkies. Yah?

(Except for my time in the Army, I have always had a beard - it never occurred to me not to.)

O'Meara

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Amos
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 03:55 AM

Maybe it wears off from friction other places? The amount of information packed into our chromosomes is bloody incredibobble.

A

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Seaking
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 02:14 AM

I've never understood why head and face hair will continue to grow unchecked but seems to know when to stop growing everywhere else - to avoid a tripping hazard maybe ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 01:49 AM

I had a beard before I was 18, tender skin, stiff whiskers = pimples. Haven't been without one for more than a day or so since, except when the Army insisted. Went the poppie/jazzie/skifflie/folkie route, so I was a beardie before a folkie. Her Indoors has only seen me barefaced once, and threw my razor away.
I'm a negative Little Hawk, follically challenged on top.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:14 PM

There are several reasons (at least) which occur to me:

1) As Dani pointed out, people into folk music tend to be a tad unconventional; less worried than many about conforming to societies' ideas of how one should look.

2) A lot of folkies' formative years were during the 60s & 70s, when not conforming to society's expectations was "the thing to do" (which begs the question whether or not all us "non-conformists" are actually conforming -- just to a different standard -- but let's not go into that...)

3) Bill D mentions that a lot of men have jobs with written and/or unwritten expectations of a clean-shaven appearance by male employees, but that many male folkies tend to have jobs where this is not so much of an issue. I would guess (though I don't have any facts/figures to back this up) that a majority of folkies are very well educated, which might have something to do with why folkie guys have the kind(s) of jobs that allow a bit more freedom concerning personal appearance.

This discussion reminds me of a story told me by a fellow on the (co-ed) Morris side I used to belong to (Ann Arbor Morris & Sword, in case anyone from A2 is reading this). A reporter from the local paper came out to interview the team for some event. She looked around, evidently noticed all the beards, and asked if a beard was a requirement for being on the Morris team.

"Only for the men," they told her...

Cheers,

YY

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 07:31 PM

"Food was always getting caught in it"

Eating is when the food goes -in- your mouth...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 06:59 PM

Well I've shaved hundreds of old men in my time as a nurse and I can tell you that shaving wrinkled, paper-thin old skin is hard going. My idea of a Heavenly hospital is wards full of bearded men. And old faces look better with a bit of decoration. Pity hairy faces are not so attractive on us ladies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Gareth
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 06:39 PM

When you are standing on a railway platform in Whitstable, in mid winter, before dawn with a Nor Easter blowing in. Well you grow a beard.

The last time it was shaved ( 1989 ) we raised £400.00 for the Royal National Lifeboat Institution.

And if that ain't reason to have a beard, well, what is !!

Gareth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:58 PM

Being a female folkie I don't have a beard and I have to say I am one of those females that removes all hair that isn't on my head.....I even take a razor to festivals but thats the sort of person I am!!!!!

As far as men go.....I've kissed men with and without beards and with 'designer stubble' I like either but the designer stubble tends to give you a rash!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:58 PM

A number of times I decided to grow a beard, but it never lasted for more than three days. Except once. Around 1980 or so, when I was working for the phone company (Ma Bell), I grew one and had it for about a year and a half. It was okay for awhile, but from time to time the damned thing would start to itch. I had to shampoo it every day and it got to be more of a hassle than shaving. Food was always getting caught in it (a bit of mayo or mustard from a sandwich, a bread crumb or two, a dab of egg yolk that dripped off my fork, that sort of thing), and to keep from grossing people out (or attracting flies) I had to scrupulously check my face in a mirror with ridiculous frequency (which, in itself, can be traumatic).

Finally, one Saturday morning we're eating hotcakes. When syrup drizzled into it for the third time, I decided, "Okay, that's it!!" After breakfast I shaved it off, revealing a face that was red and irritated. And very itchy. Then I developed what looked like dandruff on my bare face. For a couple of weeks, after I shaved and washed my face, my beard area was red as a beet, and after a few hours, dry scale would start flaking off. It finally went away. Except now and then it still comes back. But even so, it felt good to have a clean face again. Maybe beards work for some guys, but not for me. It looked pretty good, but for me, it was a royal pain in the face.

A year after I shaved it off, my supervisor at the phone company looked at me kinda funny and said, "Gee, Don, when did you shave off your beard?"

Don (barefaced) Firth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Andy Murphy
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:34 PM

I reckon it was started by the Dubliners. They appeared on top of the pops in the early sixties with long hair and beards and even the Beatles were shocked

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 04:45 PM

Why do British folkies have beards should be the question. In all the years that I ran a concert series over here, it was unsual for a flokie to have a beard. Art Thieme had one, and so did Bill Staines but right off hand, not a single other American performer I booked comes to mind who had a beard. There must have been a couple others, but I bet 90% of the male folksingers I booked over here didn't have a beard.

Beardless Jerry... if you'd ever seen me in a mangey beard you would have no further questions.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 04:45 PM

Folkies aren't the only ones--rock n' rollers have beards too! Look at ZZ Top--two guys with beards and one guy named Beard--

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Peace
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 03:15 PM

They don't have beards. You're lookin' at the wrong end!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 02:58 PM

Now now, boys!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 02:43 PM

Ya kissed a lot of men with and without beards Dave?

heh

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 02:26 PM

Surely the reason is because kissing a man without a beard is like eating an egg without salt.

Dave
www.collectors.folk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 01:25 PM

When people ask me why I have a beard-which I don't at the moment - I always turn the question around and ask why most men don't have beards. Having a beard is, after all, a more natural state because to not have a beard entails a conscious decision to shave very day.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 01:11 PM

This thread provides more evidence that Jerry Garcia was a Folkie!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:53 PM

Real men wear beards, drink cider and make their own dresses.


I have a beard for medical reasons - clinical ugliness


Doug C

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:47 PM

I'm reminded of what my uncle said to me on seeing my first attempt at a beard - "Jesus Christ, why are you cultivating on your upper lip what grows wild around your asshole ?!?"

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:43 PM

folkie beards... love them !

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:17 AM

One time, many years ago, I was interviewing for a job with the Army. The Interviewer asked whether I was very attached to the beard. My response: It grows on me. end of interview.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: muppett
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:12 AM

I had a beard in my early folkie days, as I didn't have much money I found my beard a useful way of storing food in it, so didn't have to leave the pub to go for a meal !!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:03 AM

I'm sure there are men whose jobs insist on shaving...implicitly, if not explicitly. I also think that men whose taste runs to folk music and the social whirl THAT entails, 'tend' to not have the kind of jobs that require shaving (and 3 piece suits..etc.) And as noted, guys who have endured military rules for a few years often quit shaving as soon as they're out!

As to presidents, it seems to me that the decline of beards roughly parallels the introduction of photography, easy travel via train & airplane, movies, and finally... TV. The candidates can easily be seen now, and are afraid to do ANYTHING which might affect their 'image'. Remember how much comment there was about Al Gore temporarily growing a beard, even after the election?

One thing about MY shaving is that I tend to get irritation and ingrown hairs just below the chin, thus the faily uncommon muttonchop style...every now & then I let the center grow, and I am always sorry...

And regarding shaving other areas of the body...it has been theorized that genital & armpit hair were retained during evolution as ways to retain and concentrate pheromones and served to enhance sexual awareness. (My ex-wife years ago specifically preferred me in that state between "scrubbed clean" and "overripe") [a delicate balance]......But now that western society and the advertising industry promotes daily scrubbing away of any trace of 'natural' odor, and modern swim suits have been reduced to a few square inches..*grin*, what chance do those poor, embattled nether locks have?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:24 AM

There are some people who shave the hair off the top of their heads every day. They are often considered a little bit eccentric for doing this, since the more customary procedure is to let it grow to a less or greater extent and then trim it.

I've never understood why the attitude towards hair at the top end of the head is different from that towards hair at the lower end.

Incidentally - do men ever go bald in the beard area?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:02 AM

Why do folkies have beards? Because they have more sense than to stand in front of a mirror scraping their faces. Why on earth do you beardless guys do it anyway?

(please note I am a woman and beardless)

Sal

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Peterr
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 07:56 AM

Before I got into folk, I did a lot of caving and climbing (late 60s-70s) and it was beards then. Something to do with the mindset, though I didn't grow one to have the uniform. My daughter now 24 has seen me twice without a beard. First time she was about 5, burst into tears and wouldn't come near me until it grew back.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Dani
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 07:47 AM

Because they look good!

But our own Kendall is another fine and handsome example of the exception. There are plenty, but I do think it seems to be a folky thing.

Maybe as a group (grossly over-exaggerated) they're just a little less concerned with what others think of how they look, and how long it takes to make yourself fit another's mold? Lord, think of the singing we could do if we weren't shaving, and the whiskey we could buy instead of razors!

A pox on him AND her who started shaving. It's probably the guy who invented nylon stockings.

One thing I wondered while watching the otherwise admirable Master and Commander movie was how in the hell those guys (who were OLD enough) mananged to stay so cleanshaven on board that rollicking ship with straight-razors?!

Dani

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:15 AM

In the Army I had to get a haircut weekly and shave twice a day.

The hell with it.

clint

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:02 AM

My beard hides a multitude of chins.

At one of the Bracknell "Handsome Mouldiwarp" Folk Festivals there was a prize for correctly challenging "Frank Ignobody" who was a character in a wonderful cartoon strip "Borfolk" which Lawrence Heath used to produce for "Southern Rag" the predecessor of "Folk Roots". The picture of a bearded folkie would have fitted over half of the fellows - and quite a few of ladies as well !

I can understand why some women do feel it neccessary to depilate their arms, legs, upper lips etc - more than a light down on these areas is thought to be unfeminine. Genital and underarm hair are normal after puberty for both sexes and I see no reason to think of them as at all unattractive and definitely not unfeminine in women (rather the reverse in fact). If a woman wants to look like a little girl why doesn't she have mastectomies as well ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 03:50 AM

...and strangely, whereas the jazz audience has always been prone to beards, full-on for traddies and goatees for modernists, the blues audience tends to be clean-shaven (though the bald forehead and ponytail look is still, [unwisely, IMHO]favoured by some).

RtS
(handsomely* cleanshaven)

*A lawyer writes:this contravenes the Trades description Act

Subject: RE: Folklore: Why do folkies have beards
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 03:45 AM

I was at a Morris Ring meeting years ago attended by about 250 dancers and overhead the following conversation -
"Have you seen so-and-so?"
"What's he look like?"
"Oh, you know, white shirt and a beard."
White shirt and a beard at a Ring meeting..............