BS: Down the Vietnam Road

Subject: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:52 AM

Seems like all the news coming out of Iraq is sadly reminiscent of the Vietnam period, full of lies, half-truths and hoped for results.
The death toll in Samara? '54 guerrila insurgents!' they say, or not, 'these were field statistics, no actual body count' they admit. The local Samara population says most of the dead are innocent bystanders. Army spokesman says 'you wouldn't expect the bad guys to send thier dead to the morgue'. So, they were able to recover thier dead during the biggest firefight in recent months? and take them where? and then doesn't that mean that the dead at the morgues are by definition not 'the enemy' but indeed innocent civilian casualties? can you have it both way unless you're spinning it into the ground? The recent New Yorker article on the course of the war quotes a GI as saying that they have been logging 'ghost patrols'. not actually going out, but reporting to superiors who want to hear good news what they want to hear, and not the reality. If this doesn't sound and look and stink more and more like the quagmire of Vietnam, than I don't know what would. There are other examples to relate, but these incidents are telling.

Peace Now!

US Out of Iraq!

Bring Our Boys & Girls Home!

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:20 AM

I predict that we will withdraw from Vietnam...I mean Iraq...just before the elections. Unless Bush resigns in scandal first. But so far no scandal has arisen which could force that, as though the death of hundreds of American troops and thousands of Iraqis were not.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: InOBU
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:37 AM

Frankly Amos, I think rather, there will be a tempory scale back, the anouncement of a stable government, the election, then all hell breaks loose. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:48 AM

First casualty of war... the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:49 AM

Vietnam was a CF and we know that. I think the purpose of the Iraq war is different. This is about controling oil--and the future of the world. I don't find it wise on anyone's part to lose sight of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM

Interesting call, Lasrry -- it would be consistent with his luck so far.

One importasnt difference is that the enemy is not militarily competent, while the Viet Cong were competent and ingenuious foes.

This is true as long as the forces opposing the occupation are dispersed guerilla remannts of the Baathist regime, which they mostly are. If a unification of jihadista from all across the Muslim lands were to be sparked, it could be a bloody catastrophe with an end scene very similar to the final evacs out of 'Nam.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 12:58 PM

Where's Tricky Dick when you need him. Remember just before the '68 election when HHH announced he would stop the bombing if elected? Than LBJ killed HHH's chances of winning by doing that just before election... Well, around Septemeber of '68 Nixon came out with his infamous "Secret Plan" for getting out of Vietnem, which turned out to be so secretive that he didn't even know... Well, that's more what I se happening... Bush is too eat upby his neo-cons who not only want to keep the troops their but also manilpulate public opinion for attacks on Syria and Iran... It's always been part of their plan. Iraq, Iran and Syria... They'll accept a "Secret Plan" end around but that's about it... Plus, Iraq is going to just get worse and worse making security of the troops a more than full time job..

Ahhh, like who out there thought that the Bathh ists were just going to cooperatively line up and patiently wait their turn before the firing sqads?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

Problem is, Bobert, the voters believed Dicky's 'secret plan' BS & the gullibility quotient of the Amercun voter has risen to new heights since.

I'm not encouraged...

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:36 PM

Geeze, Greg, ya'think so?........

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:40 PM

Well we have a secret plan too. We'll send in the Marines (1 MEF) to replace a lot of those Army guys. Marines are better trained, better at relating to locals, better at fighting the right people, and so on.   That'll fix things up properly.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:10 PM

I hope the subtle note of irony in the above is not too thin to be noticed....

A

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:40 PM

Amos - my nephew's a Royal Marine and just back from Iraq. He definitely does not want to go back but has a feeling he will be sent back next year. Trouble is, now we're in there, we can't just pull out and leave the majority innocent, law-abiding Iraqis to be preyed on by the remnants of Saddam's thugs and the criminals he released from jail. Unfortunately I just don't know the answer and I don't suppose Bush and Blair do either!

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM

Truth is, we have another CF in Iraq. The publicly-defined objectives were not the same as the objectives of the power brokers. Ya can call this what you want, but the people who have been placed in harm's way--both military and civilian--deserve much better. I hope your nephew stays safe, GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:32 PM

Why not pull out? so there's a bit of collateral damage after the fact too.......its just the cost of doing business, no problem.....never bothered the US and the UK when it went into Iraq and never seemed to bother the US when they pulled out of South Vietnam either. Did anyone really believe at the outset that this was some sort of video game you could turn off and walk away from, no harm done?

despite my tirade Guest, I am truly sorry that your nephew might be put in harm's way again, its one of the reasons I get so damned angry.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:57 PM

An Iraqi Knock! Knock! Joke


Knock! Knock!

Who's there?

82nd Airborne!

82nd - who?

KABOOM!

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 05:07 PM

Yeah, and you empty an Iraqi bingo parlor by calling out, B 52.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:00 PM

A lobbyist, on his way home from work in Washington, D.C., came to a
dead halt in traffic and thought to himself, "Wow, this seems worse than usual.

He notices a police officer walking between the lines of stopped cars, so he rolls down his window and asks, "Officer, what's the hold up?"

The officer replies, "The President is depressed, so he stopped his
motorcade and is threatening to douse himself in gasoline and set
himself on fire. He says no one believes his stories about why we went
to war in Iraq, or the connection between Saddam and al-Quaida, or that his tax cuts will help anyone except his wealthy friends; the press called him on the lie about Iraq trying to buy uranium from Nigeria, and now the NBC White House reporter Campbell Brown is threatening to sue him for the sexual innuendo he made to her at his recent press conference. So we're taking up a collection for him."

The lobbyist asks, "How much have you got so far?"

The officer replies, "About 14 1/2 gallons, but a lot of folks are
still siphoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:35 AM

The best way to protect the troops is to bring them home.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:47 AM

What is a CF?

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 04:18 AM

Brucie - How is oil more controlled now than it was, say 1, 5, 10, 20 years ago?

GUEST 03 Dec 03 - 02:40 PM

All the best to your nephew, my son is currently serving in the Royal Marines.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:13 PM

One difference from Vietnam is that I understand there were bodycounts of Vietnamese killed, at least in theory.

According to everything I've read, there is a policy on Iraq, so far as the US forces are concerned, of not even trying to gather those kind of statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:17 PM

no they are not gathering those statistics htey are making them up, just as they did in Vietnam

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 07:42 PM

Every time the question comes up in a news conference it appears that the reply is that there is a policy of not gathering statistics on Iraqi deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 08:54 PM

CF is a cluster f##k.

Teribus: I don't think oil is more controlled today than it was at any other time in recent history. However, I do think the intent now is to have it controlled specifically by American hands. The globalization thing that has been going on is NOT new. It was addressed in The Mustard Seed Conspiracy as early as about 1980. Now, I perceive the US to be the leaders taking a shot at global domination. That's what I meant. Thanks for pointing it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 09:46 PM

Well, from a purely greedy standpoint, Iraq has more to offer than Vietnam... Rubber ain't in that short supply... But really, the plan of the neocons is beyond Iraq... Syria and Iran pose the greatest threats to a US/UK takeover of thew world's greatest un-controlled and up-for-grabs oil reserves...

Hey, if yer a friggin' pig who could care less about the lives of those you send off to secure these reserves, in the name of freedom (give me a break) and democracy (give me another break), like its a danged good plan!!! But stealin' is stealin'. Call it freedom, 'er democracy, 'er___________ but, bottom line its the same old game: colonilization and stealin'...

Hey, fie you folks who don't think so: think again... I'd have a whole lot more respect for yer sorry butts if you'd just fess the heck up. Come on, like how hard can it be to say, "they got it, we want it and we're gonna friggin' take it!" But, no, you all hide like cowards behind whatever the Bush/Blair spin heads tell you to say all the while, deep down inside, you know you are on the wrong side of this one....

That's the way it appears to a lot of us...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: mg
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:03 PM

oh for heavens' sake...I might be wrong but I don't know I am wrong...best I can do. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:37 PM

Yeah, they say "Ignorance id bliss".... I'm sorry, Mary, that you had yer thinkerator so twisted by folks who have been planing on invading Iraq for the last two decades that you are now unable to see the the PR lies that have been carefully crafted to get as many folks on board for a *stupid* foriegn policy....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 06:16 AM

Bobert,

"But really, the plan of the neocons is beyond Iraq... Syria and Iran pose the greatest threats to a US/UK takeover of thew world's greatest un-controlled and up-for-grabs oil reserves..."

In what way do Syria and Iran pose the greatest threats?

Exactly how does either the US or the UK grab control of the natural resources of another nation. Don't say look at what happened in Iraq, because as far as I know, Iraq's oil and gas, plus all the reserves that go with them are still owned by Iraq, will always be owned by Iraq, will always be sold on a World market where World demand dictates price which in turn can be adjusted by oil producers by adjusting level of production. Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Iraq recently rejoined OPEC?

As for, "I'd have a whole lot more respect for yer sorry butts if you'd just fess the heck up. Come on, like how hard can it be to say, "they got it, we want it and we're gonna friggin' take it!"

Again you have to explain exactly how this could be done - you'll have a hard to do it because it cannot be done for a price that ANYBODY could afford. Even if that WAS the REAL reason Bobert and all this is just about oil and the control of it - explain why to get to a country whose oil production has not been missed on the world market for the last 13 years, a country whose production capacity and capability had fallen by 50% of pre-1990 levels, the US and the UK by-passed two of the largest producers in the middle-east, and those were countries that invited their troops in. If it's all about oil Bobert and, "they got it, we want it and we're gonna friggin' take it!" - Why didn't they?

Come on Bobert if you wish to make a point, make with reason and logic, backed up by hard fact. The normal hysteria, doesn't cut any ice.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 11:19 AM

As an unwise war turns slowly into a nastier and more insoluble morass and hurts more and more innocent people (on both sides), you will hear the usual arguments for continuing the occupation:

"We can't let ourselves be intimidated by thugs and terrorists..."

"We can't let down those who died fighting for liberty/freedom/justice...yadda, yadda, yadda..."

"We can't show weakness in the face of evil..."

"We can't send the world the message that we are quitters..."

"We can't abandon that unhappy land to chaos and bloodshed..."

And all that kind of grandstanding BS.

When the real story is:

"We are playing grand imperialism here on the map of the World, because we are the greatest nation that has ever existed and it is our divine right and DUTY to do so. We have strategic and financial aims in mind that benefit us and nobody else, and we have the most powerful military in the World, and we don't give a shit how many Iraquis, Iranians, Vietnamese, Syrians, Nicaraguans, and other semi-human non-Americans die while we pursue our strategic and financial objectives, and we are NOT gonna stop now. Hell no! Lock and load, and blow those damn gooks and wetbacks to smithereens! And as for you protestors on the streets of America, you are the next thing to traitors, and you had better smarten up, go home, sit quietly in front of your TV's and shut up, or Homeland Security will find a way to shut you up. Got that? Good."

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 11:33 AM

"We live in a time when 'war' is on everyone's lips ... if their talk be only about the prevention of war. ... They talk much *about* war, but rarely do they talk *of* it - as a subject so serious as to be worth the serious study of every thinking man and woman. ... For the failure to treat it as a branch of scientific knowledge, responsibility lies as much on [those] of learning as on [those] of war. ... The study of war as a branch of knowledge requires the method of work that prevails in a University as well as the attitude of mind which is inculcated there. But it is not likely that these needs will be fulfilled until [scholars] change their attitude of mind towards war, and learn to regard it as a branch of knowledge worthy of exploration."

        -- B. H. Liddell Hart, "The Ghost of Napoleon", 1934

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:40 PM

Interesting quote, GUEST. I've always been fascinated by the study of war, and have spent thousands of enjoyable hours playing highly realistic wargames of some of history's greatest campaigns...both board games and computer games. When you're in a war, you play to win (if possible). If it's not possible, then you play to draw. If a draw is not possible, then you play to minimize losses and make a good strategic withdrawal...and in real life, you negotiate.

It's wise to have a coherent honour code that you understand and that you PRESERVE scrupulously, regardless of what heinous things the enemy may do. If you respond to atrocities with atrocities of your own (as is commonly the case) it will only serve to weaken your own moral position and your strength in the long run...and you will yourself become the "enemy" that you think you are fighting against. The Allies in World War II fell into that trap many times. Better to fight a respected enemy (like Rommel was for the British and they for him) than a despised enemy. To despise your enemy is to fall into the trap of absolutism..."we are good, they are evil". It's anti-human and it leads to horrific results.

All the major players committed terrible war crimes in World War II...and that, in retrospect, turned Nuremberg into a hypocritical farce, in my opinion (although I agree that the Nazis were the worst of the lot, all things considered). A number of people were tried who should not have been...such as the Japanese general Yamashita, for one. A number of people weren't tried who should have been (in my opinion), because they happened to be on the winning side.

One kind of war that is exceedingly hard to win, in the long run, is a foreign occupation of some land by a superior military power from a different culture. The Americans tried it once in the Phillipines, later in Vietnam, and are now trying it in Afghanistan and Iraq. The British and French tried it in any number of former colonies, and were finally forced to leave. The Russians tried it in Afghanistan and many other places, and were finally forced to leave.

I don't see any good result for American troops remaining in Afghanistan or Iraq, and I believe they should be withdrawn. Will there be bloodshed when they leave? Yes. Will there be bloodshed regardless of whether they leave? Yes. The bloodshed is inevitable, and so is the eventual departure of the imperial occupying forces in those lands, because they have no business being there in the first place.

Will terrorism continue? Yes, as long as much of the World is daily terrorized by the USA's (and others') weapons of mass destruction, and lives in inequality, poverty, and powerless despair...longing only for equality. Equality. Equality is a sacred and holy thing, and people everywhere will struggle until they have it.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 01:17 PM

T:

Yer back to yer old tricks of trying to hand out homework assignments that narrow the disucussion into the center of yer magnifying glass. This stuff ain't rocket science... Wolfy and Perle went Clinton over a decade ago with purdy much the same plan that Bush has followed. This isn't a danged secret. Links were provided last year prior to the invasion here at Mudcat. Similar stories ahve been printed in just about every major newspaper... With yer research skills, if you were so motivated, you could be reading *the rest of the story* in a matter a minutes. Just about everyone else on the planet (who cares) knows the story...

But I will make you a deal if this puts you out. I will be more than happy to provided you with sources if you'll admit right here on Mudcat that you are a knothead... Awww, jus' finnin'... We allready know that... (Now that was a joke so it's "off the record" fir yer future posts...I don't want it to be used like the"shrunkin' heads" remark which was also made in jest, though serious in its jestiness...)

As fir the oil, T, you got two oilmen in charge of the US military. I don't think one has to look much further fir a danged motive for controling that section of the world and *controling* it involves Iran and Syria both of which are viewed by the occupiers as potential hide-outs, training centers and suppliers of a resistence force. Its about "flanking", if you have any understanding of basic military science..

And lastly, what Little Hawk said... That prevents you from having to hear it twice...

And lastly, fir real (at least for this post). Waht B.H. Liddell Hart said in GUEST's post...

Danged, I don't think you getting hitched has done one bit of good Yer as ornery as ever... I do find it interesting that you kinda laid back fir awhile after the invasion until Bush's PR spinsters fed yopu some new crap for distribution... Oh, Saddam was a bad man... Awww, nevermind...

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 01:32 PM

Teribus, since you don't know, I suggest you read the following to answer your question, "Exactly how does either the US or the UK grab control of the natural resources of another nation". Things haven't changed much since WWI regarding "Iraq's oil" and I use the term "Iraq's Oil" loosely.

Iraq's Oil ?

Iraq's Oil?

Iraq's Oil?      

The answer is pretty much the same imperialistic way they always have, but this time with a bit more bloodshed.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 03:25 PM

Tahnks fir the assist, Metchosin. These ougtta keep the T-Bird grounded fir awhile while he relays these links back to to headquarters, they disect them and then offer a rebuttal to the tiniest of details while ignoring the obvious and overleing truth to them... I mean, why use yer Queen when ya got lots of pawns?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 03:45 PM

Quite right! give it all back to Saddam, Bin laden et al, and ruin our standard of living; not to mention become slaves of radical Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 04:52 PM

Much of our 'standard of living' is built on the misery of other people. When children in other countries can be kept doing work in 'sweatshops' so that we can afford to pay athletes millions a year to advertise the fuc#in' shoes the kids made, then there is something terribly false about our standard of living.

I wouldn't care to give jackshit back to Saddam or Bin Laden, but the people of those countries maybe deserve a break today, and I don't mean at you know where. It was said years ago:

Playboys and play girls,
Ain't gonna change my world.

Too late, they have.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 05:48 PM

Ah, Little Hawk,
you miss the whole end point of this game "Neo-Con". The Win Scenario is to bring on Armeggedon, and the final uplifting of the sacred (I typed scared first off!) 144,000, or whatever number you subscribe to, from the Temple Mount at Jerusalem, as per the Game Manual written in sections over the last several thousand years of History. ther is no possible draw or or withdrawl scenario - the Game continues until the end condition is met.

Of course you have to be an extreme fundamentalist (or fake it!) to play, but you can optionally take a role as either a Jewish, Christian or Muslim Character type.

Oil, water, overpopulation, "codes of honour", etc, are useful game tactics, but the real purpose of the game is to be one of those ascending to Heaven. Loosing Global Thermonuclear War is one Game Scenario, The Big Fast Flying Lump From Outter Space is a Random Option that you cannot control - unless you divert valuable resources to achieve the Control Task, provoking Terrorism to allow you to proceed to Rule By Military Law, there's lot of Game Options. The slow strangling via ecologial pollution and global warming takes the most guts to play, as the outcome is not guaranteed.

The best bet seems to be to provoke Jihad as an excuse to loose GTW.

The Truth is Out There - on the Net! I have seen it!


You think I'm joking, don't you?...

"Oh little town of Bethlehem,
How still we see thee lie.
Above thy deep and lifeless sleep,
The mushroom clouds roll by.

Yet in thy dark streets shineth,
That mushroom's glaring light.
The hopes and fears of all the years
Went up to Heaven, tonight."

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 06:01 PM

Good point, brucie, and this is why American corporations are so anxious to move their manufacturing jobs overseas.

"Shoot, if these ungratefull Americans won't let us screw them over, we'll find some folks who will!..."

Yo, CEO's: When ya got the working class unemployed and underemployed, who ya gonna find to buy yer friggin' junk?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:01 PM

GUEST - If you imagine that the USA population is (or ever has been) in any danger whatsoever of being enslaved by radical Islam, then maybe you believe in Santa Claus and the Grinch too...

All you are in danger of being enslaved by is TV, consumerism, and the efforts of Mr Bush's government to subvert and betray your own Constitution and establish a de facto dictatorship. Most Americans already are enslaved by the first 2 of those, and the 3rd is well on its way.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:30 PM

Yo, Little Hawk,

I'm beginning to recogonize this GUEST an' if it's the same GUEST that I wrestled around with a while back, you ain't gonna get anywhere. But, now if it's GUEST from Texas, then take the above post as bad humor...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:54 PM

The importance of posts from GUEST--whoever s/he might be, is that it indicates a thinking that is common (I don't mean average) and pandemic. S/he's moderate compared to the neoconservatives, and that should give us all pause. Don't mean to be lecturing my peers--since I really think most of you are pretty darn bright and pretty darn right. However, I do think we have to 'hear' where these people are comin' from, because they have lotsa votes in the USA. And Bobert--it's a pretty dumb guy that can only find one way to spell a word.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:57 PM

"Yo, CEO's: When ya got the working class unemployed and underemployed, who ya gonna find to buy yer friggin' junk?"

On the right track Bobert!

The bean counters in Aussie Banks decided that they made teh least money from the bottom 20% of their customers, so they would put large fees on them to "discourage" them and make them leave, so as the banks would be more profitable!

Certain Journalists DID make the point that

1) this works great - ONCE!
2) if you keep this up for many years, you drive away ALL of your customers...
3) one bank started fee free accounts for pensioners and lots of the bottom 20% went there.. :-) (suprise!) so all the banks now have those accounts!

Excessive reliance on Economics Theory is often a short sighted practical madness...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Peace
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 08:10 PM

I hear that, Robin. Theory tells us that bumblebees can't fly. Right. Just reminds us that Woody was right: Some people rob ya with a six gun, others with a fountain pen.

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 09:59 PM

Nothing heavier than air can fly.
We will never need more than about 10 computers - IBM executive...

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:18 PM

And ships made out of iron and steel can't float either...

And you can't have democracy without political parties...

Not!

Subject: RE: BS: Down the Vietnam Road
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:23 PM

well. LH...it's you and I again marching towards 10:34pm...guess I'll go outside and sit by the firepit!!!!!