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Making Music as a Craft
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Subject: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:13 PM As a very poor musician-in-training, I have been conscious that some parts of my attitude towards learning are not very good, and that I (and maybe others) might be helped by some thoughts about music as a craft, rather than as learning a bunch of songs or techniques. Certain elements of a craft that come to mind are: sense of a tradition, respect for tools, an ability to let the material (physical or otherwise) tell you what it wants you to do with it, and a kind of humility (that one will never know it all). Any other thoughts from musicians out there about their craft? yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: GUEST,MMario Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:29 PM I'm confused - I can't picture any OTHER way of looking at it. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Cluin Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:32 PM Sure, there's lots of craft. You get out of it what you put into it... and that includes the "fun" part. Don't forget the "fun" part. Very important. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:40 PM I think that with any craft, there must be technicalities involved, BUT they can't be the whole emphasis, or else the craft gets lost. By the same token, the technical aspects can't be completely thrown out, or the craft gets sloppy. Personally, I have never been a great musician technically. I will admit that I don't like to practice, and I do so grudgingly. Once I learn the technical elements of a fiddle tune, for instance, then I can let the tune, and the fiddle, tell me what they want me to know. When I was younger I lacked humility - because I listened to the people around me who told me how great I was, because I was young, and because I also lacked appreciation of my gifts. As an older person I cherish my creative gifts, and am always humbled when others appreciate them as well. It never ceases to amaze me that people actually like my singing, or my songwriting, or my knitting, or whatever. It's just something I do, because it's in me and must come out. Does that make any sense? |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Justa Picker Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM Think less. Play more. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Chief Chaos Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:51 PM I view it as an art or labor of love. Treating it as a craft may reduce it to "the bottom line" what you get out for what you put in. If you believe that the outcome isn't worth the input then you shouldn't bother in the first place. Also your talents in the area may limit you to apprentice or journeyman and you would have to look at it from the perspective of never achieving mastery of the "craft". I'd be depressed about that. As it is I love the music that I make and thats good enough for me. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Mooh Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:11 PM I view it like being in school full time, all the time, with no end. There are always more things to learn, refine, redefine, investigate, and experiment. On my shelf to be read this moment are, among other things, "Four Centuries Of Scottish Psalmody" and a Chuck Berry biography, the former will likely be more interesting. To apply all my knowledge to the craft is a challenge realized when I write some banal tripe. But making it a craft for me requires that I not only consume it but that I also propagate it. Therefore I teach and perform. I should go practice. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 04 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM Peter, you said, "Certain elements are... a sense of a tradition, respect for tools, an ability to let the material (physical or otherwise) tell you what it wants you to do with it, and a kind of humility (that one will never know it all)." That says it exactly for me. And your words were exemplefied by my beloved Byron, who came late (around age 50) to the concertina, but approached the instrument and the music with something approaching reverence. Allison |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:11 PM Thanks for contributions. By craft I meant "craft" in the most exalted sense, where it is -- or aspires to -- art. I have noticed that in crafts it is often enough to strive to do what has been done before (and in so doing one may express something new), keep it going, join the tradition. yours, Peter |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Amos Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:41 PM I would add that above all else, the craft has a burning desire at its center to communicate ... I don't quite know how to say it ... the heart of human situations from any part of time and place to here and now without lag. That penetration or transmission or whatever it is is the core thing that all parts of the crtaft serve. It is an instant of joy. A |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Kim C Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:51 PM Well, Chief, it depends on how you define "craft," I suppose, and I'm not sure I can come up with how I would personally define it. But I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said. And my teacher always tells me to think less! |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Clinton Hammond Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:54 PM JustaPicker said it best so far... |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:57 PM In reading George Sturt's The Wheelwright's Shop, I was struck by how often reference is made to the most effective way of doing something -- similar to the way nature hones species to fitness -- so old ways of working were done so as to make the most frugal use of everything, which would usually mean facing up to physical constraints or making something as light or easy for workmen (horses, etc.) as possible. This resonated with various things that have been said to me over the years about minimal movement in fingering, about not wasting moves, about how the simple things often take the longest to get right, and so on. yours, Peter t. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Little Neophyte Date: 04 Dec 03 - 10:23 PM Hi Peter I look at it like a romantic relationship. The more I put into it, the more I get out of it. Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: GUEST Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:11 AM Hi Pete: I liked reading your note and the following notes because it makes me think about music, and how maybe I relate to it. I'm coming back to your spot just to see all of what you've created with your question. I'm new enough to this site it's nice to read what others think about music as I don't really know any musicians. Don't rate yourself as a "poor musician". You've picked up an instrument because something of it is in your soul, no matter who is out there that makes you rate yourself as "poor". Okay, we all learn, yes. The great journey aspect is the key, not the grades (to me that's the greatest thing about learning out of desire and on your own -- no grades, just attaining your soul yearning). Your note got me to think about how I relate to my piano. If a teacher or a real "pianist" saw me, (okay I'm self-conscious and if a real professional pianist were near I'd be nervous and not want to play ha) they'd walk away. Maybe sense your soul and what you would like to come out of it to others and to yourself, beauty or sense of fulfillment. I stumble with my piano; and I play anyway. I played enough it seemed what was in my soul first touched me and eventually was also touching others. Another thing, my piano is like my banjo is like my harmonica, my autoharp... maybe because they are all one. Piano is my favorite window of sorts, the view is nice, a journey into another world. Keep playing. I know, music is in your soul and it will come otherwise you would not have even picked up an instrument. Music is a language, have patience and your soul will sing. Most Sincerely, Mike Jensen |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Dec 03 - 12:57 AM I don't believe in "art". I believe in craft; that is, a series of skills acquired through dedication and hard work. Some things come more easily, to begin with, to some people than to others; that is not so much a question of inborn talent, I think, as of having been encouraged at just the right time to build on something in which you are interested, and in which, to others, you seem to show promise. To speak of music only, Mike Jensen has said just what I have said myself at other times: it is a form of language, and is perfected by use and by the development of understanding. Physical technique is important, too; it is all part of the same process: but even superlative technique, without a passion for the craft itself, is empty. Essentially, I think, an "artist" is a one-trick-horse; a genuine craftsman, on the other hand, even if he or she chooses to concentrate on a single aspect only, is nevertheless capable of turning their hand to whatever might be needed. That's the thing to aim for. It doesn't matter if you don't get there. While you are trying, you'll learn, and grow, and you won't go stale. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: C-flat Date: 05 Dec 03 - 02:31 AM The "desire to communicate" is often such a strong motivator that a lot of players concentrate on getting a good gloss on a performance and learning enough material to be a performer, only to find themselves going back over to re-learn their instruments when they discover their own musical shortcomings. I speak from experience. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Grab Date: 05 Dec 03 - 04:05 AM C-flat, isn't that the best way to learn? You get as far as you can with the techniques you've got. Then when you realise your technique is letting you down, you go learn some new ways of doing stuff to get you a bit further. That way, you go into the lessons knowing what needs improving, and *you* can drive the lessons to learn what you need most. Sure, it's up to the teacher to teach you that as best they can, so a singing teacher will take you right back to basic breathing for example, but it's all working towards a specific aim of yours, rather than just sitting down in the lesson and saying "teach me something". If you tried just learning all the technique to start with, without actually playing anything, how boring would that be?! Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 05 Dec 03 - 08:17 AM All food for thought (or playing, Justa Picker). yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Willie-O Date: 05 Dec 03 - 08:53 AM I find it easier to define what it isn't. It isn't a contest. Not for speed, or complexity, or attention, or technique. Practiced individually, it's useful to think of it as a craft. If you want to learn a craft, seek out masters and pay attention to what they tell you and show you--even if it isn't always comfortable for you. Most people don't like being told the way they're doing something is all wrong--and it may not be, but listen and try before you decide to just do it your way. Also very importantly, music is a sharing with others. That part of the craft involves learning how to use your own voice (including your instrumental voice) in a harmonic fashion with other people. There is give and take, talking and listening, soloing and backing up, an appreciation for sonic highs and lows. In my life, shared music is the highest form of communication; for this cranky old atheist, it is one of the two important spiritual experiences (the other one is being alone in a natural environment). Developing the craft is kind of like learning a set of religious rituals: once you know them, the mechanics are second nature. A musician won't play an out-of-tune instrument any more than a cabinetmaker would use a dull plane. Cause everyone knows music is love. Bill |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Little Neophyte Date: 05 Dec 03 - 09:47 AM Great thread! By observing the muscians I admire, those I relate to and those that irritate me I come to better understand what it is I am seeking from the music and what I am not. Bottom line......(as mentioned beautifully in previous postings): Connecting & Love This inner journey is navigated by your heart not your head I think someone should design T-shirts to sell at folk festivals.... 'Think less Play more' Little Neo |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Cluin Date: 05 Dec 03 - 11:02 AM Art is anything that is greater than the sum of its parts. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Amos Date: 05 Dec 03 - 02:19 PM Malcolm, I think you'r e leaving a major piece out of the puzzle if you try to reduce art to the craft of a series of techniques. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. A |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:24 PM In |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: GUEST Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:40 AM Hello Pete and the others here: Yah, you know I at times find myself, now that I've read some new posts and like Malcolm Douglas was mentioning about the technique aspect of this element of life called music, going through sort of a cycle at times. I best say that I'm no veteran to really be saying anything, it's just Pete's way that I appreciate where he broke a kind of ice for me I guess. Music isn't 100% natural, I agree (meaning to the sentiment I've gathered reading all the posts). When I'm mentioning the soul connection etc. it seems to be a part of it because for me the instrument is a kind of link, a translator. I've got a feeling or a need to say something and it's not language per se, and that's how music is really happening, I think at least, for any person who makes the leap to pick up an instrument, such as Pete or anyone, or even just to simply (I shouldn't say just ha) sing. We all learned language in order to communicate. I learned piano (without grades), and will always be learning (I hope ha). This cycle is what Malcolm is bringing out in my struggle to define the translator/technical aspect of music. Like C-flat or Grab are getting at, and Pete's concern, something (I probably don't know what I'm talking about ha) like plateaus, a going back to the translator tool. Another part of this cycle might be other than technique telling me to best start looking at my foundations... that it is like going on a walk in the woods and stopping to see, simply see something. For me music is language, but a kind of seeing too. It's like playing because I also see something beautiful and music (I hope, at least to myself ha) augments it (not through words or frets or keys), and for me that too is a part of this cyclic occurance beyond returning to technique that can save a beginner before they quit, a crucial moment. I realize I've had a long relationship with E flat major aspect of things since before I played any instrument, since when I was a child tuning around the AM radio dial at night before going to sleep. I realize now the songs I liked tended to be in that key signature. Before I can really relate the beauty of what I see through the E flat major lens I've got to return to technique for a while whether I like it or not, "an ability to let the material tell you" as in Pete's intial posting. But if it's any consolation... before technique holds me back (like technique can do to beginners) I can somehow branch off. Maybe it's this branching off that can hold beginners who get perplexed over not sounding "perfect" and quitting, or quitting really before they start. There is a lot one can do with a little, that's one of the nice things about music, for beginners and for veterans. Wow! Here I'm speaking on behalf of long standing muscians ha! So as for technique perplexing someone... there was a clear blue day I was resting, leaning my pack against a dwarfed ponderosa pine in the Big Horn Mtns of northern Wyoming out of breath at 9,000 ft. and weak with hunger. There was not a cloud in the sky, nor had there even been any clouds that bitter (a nice kind of bitter though ha) frosty million star night before. I laid to rest from my climb so the sun was behind a pine top. The wind had been racing that morning in a way that I had been listening to the music of it all more than hiking. With my new view I suddenly realized snow was high flying across the pristine blue, not falling, just fragments of sun defying an earthly presence. Before the technique aspect stops me, I find that can happen with music too. That's why I like too what Willi O said about being alone in a natural environment. Okay, music is my piano, its keys, or the banjo, its frets, or my harmonica its ins and outs reed after next note reed after... and the wondering what to do with "it" sometimes, make the thing work better in my hands; but it's this stopping the hike too. Maybe for me at times I'm the beginner over and over, as in the moment after he/she had picked up the instrument then told themself they are a poor musician. It's not a lot at first that one has, or it can be the exact opposite and daunting ha. So, if any consolation at all ha, it can be this resting with what I have, finding a view of something earthly that is not earthly... only then for an enchanted moment E flat major, or that inanimate instrument laying before you, might not seem so far away. With Best Regards Pete, and All, Mike Jensen |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peace Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:56 AM I've noticed that when I write there are two types of songs: workaday and magic (workaday and magic are terms I overheard someone say at the Sudbury Folk Festival years ago). My ability with the craft helps me write either. My ability to get my head AND heart into it enables me to write the latter. I have way far lots of the former. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:07 PM Knew I had this somewhere: GUITAR MUSIC This was a hand-out given on the first day to my guitar class at Davis & Elkins College in 1992. There have been several requests for reprints of it, so here it is. (Harvey Reid) Guitar music is a place where the elements of rhythm, tone, emotions, harmony, melody, poetry, preparation, solitude, friendship, intellect, physical training and spirituality all meet. It involves your spirit, your body, your heart and your mind, and it is both a solitary and a social act. It not only offers the player the pleasure of making music, but it also offers to the skilled the ability to actually change other people's thoughts and feelings. Just by doing something you love to do, you can impart profound things to others and give them something they value. Those who discover that they have this ability, who feel obliged to develop it and who use it generously, will experience a reward comprising not only the satisfaction of the act itself, but also an abstract pleasure in sharing and communicating with others through the language of music. There is an energy, a sense of purpose and a direction that it imparts to its practitioners that can give a gratifying sense of meaning in what threatens to seem like a meaningless world. Only through a lifetime of music will you experience an understanding of all the aspects of the art, but a basic awareness and regular reminders of the existence of all these various ingredients that make up music will allow the student to progress more quickly toward a mastery of it. There is, as always, a price to pay, and there are responsibilities that come with having the power to change other's thoughts and feelings, and not all who set out on this learning path make it all the way through. The essential element in the study of music is a love of music and an appreciation of its sacredness. Music is not something your hands or your voice do. It is not something your mind does. At its finest it is a transcendental state that involves all parts of you, and allows you to exist on the crest of a wave, in the exact moment of the present as you perform each part of the music. It is only there, in the present that we can truly live and have control over our lives, since the past and future are inaccessible to us. When you are deeply involved in music and when you have control of it, you can experience an excitement and a sense of well-being that is impossible to duplicate. The sensation of the pleasure of music making is the primary thing a student of music must focus on. If enough time is spent in joyous music making and if the desire to share and transmit this feeling is strong and sincere, the hands will train themselves and the voice will find its true expression. One cannot hurry the process–p; you must instead enjoy and cherish it as it slowly unfolds. There is an unfettered freedom in being a beginner that you may look back on fondly some day. The desire to be something other than what you are will impede your ability to grow, and the amount of pleasure that music brings is relatively constant. If you are not experiencing that pleasure and fulfillment as a student, then you must learn how to do that before you can go further. The magic that is music comes from such a place inside us. And any beginner can experience these sensations just as easily as the master. If not more easily. Harvey Reid (Elkins West Virginia 1992) © 1992 by Harvey Reid |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Peter T. Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:18 PM And I found this quote, buried in one of his interviews: JK: So where does all this leave you, as an independent musician? HR: Being a modern minstrel is enjoyable because I think people need music. It's an ancient thing and there's something hard-wired into people that makes them like it when a traveling musician comes to town. It's an ancient, ancient thing, and it may be needed now more than it ever was. If you know how to do that, it's a rewarding thing to do. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Amos Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:41 PM Tanks, PT! A |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: s&r Date: 08 Dec 03 - 06:25 AM Making music is to find a pathway directly to feelings, your own and others. Don't worry about limitations - as fast as you eliminate them they're replaced by new ones. I ask my students what sort of music they like.... The next question is "Why?" The answer usually starts "It makes me feel....[insert your own phrase] |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: M.Ted Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:01 PM Music is like baking, in that you can learn how to do a simple thing by rote, like bake a loaf of white bread, and if you learn it right,it's all you need to get by-- |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: Gurney Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:45 AM Don't know whether it is art or craft. Both, I suspect. Paul Simon or Neil Diamond. The criterion seems to be your own level of sophistication in music, not in performance but in appreciation. |
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Subject: RE: Making Music as a Craft From: dick greenhaus Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:50 PM A craft is the part that can be taught. The art part comes from within. either is useless without the other. |
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