BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials

Subject: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 02:41 PM

I am 2/3 of the way through the trilogy. Just bought the Amber Spyglass so should have that read by week-end.

I discovered in the book shop today that, Like Harry Potter, the books have Adult and Childrens covers. I like the childrens ones better so I am sticking with them:-) What I also discovered though was that, again like Harry Potter, the first book had 2 titles. It was Northern Lights in the UK and The golden Compass in the US.

Anybody know why? Or care to hazard a guess? Or care at all?

Cneers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Hollowfox
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 02:53 PM

Great books. I didn't know about the different titles or the different covers, and I have no idea what possessed the publisher to change the title. I'd have to see the covers before I'd even hazard a guess for that decision. There's rumors of a movie, so I hope they don't screw it up if it happens. There have been some very interesting interviews with the author over the past couple of years; I'll see if I can scare up some on-line links.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 03:00 PM

Perhaps they're trying to avoid coinfusion: there's a TV show in Canada called Northern Lights; it's vignettes of famous Canadians.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 05:06 PM

The first volume was great, then it went right downhill, completely overblown.

A stage version is on in London at the moment.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Morticia
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 06:46 PM

Just finished the first book last night......wasn't that impressed, to be honest. The characters are thin and hard to find sympathy with, the plot stretched even my willing suspension of belief and there is too much that I found silly, like The Bible accounting for daemons.Doubt I'll bother to read the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 07:01 PM

My wife and I loved them.

I think "golden compass" is a better title, in the sense that each book is named after an implement that helps Lyra and her friends. If the first book is called "Northern Lights" it's the odd one out. So maybe the US publication came after Pullman decided what the follow-up titles would be, and he brought that book in line with the others.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 05:06 AM

'scuse me! Did I ask anyone what they thought of the books? No. Did I ask for unsolicited opinions of the characters or plot? No. Did I ask anyone to slag off what I found to be a good read? No.

Them that have talent use it. Them that don't criticise... Perhaps if we stuck to the old saying we would all be a lot happier. If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all.

Big ;-) btw, Morty.

Seriously though, it is a fantasy book aimed at young people and those that are (still!) young at heart. Believable plots and in-depth characters are not usualy the strong point of teen fantasy, in my opinion. However I don't think this is a problem with Pullman. I think you will find the second book goes into the characters a bit more and does become a little 'darker' for want of a better term. Give it a try:-)

As to the plot, yes, well. As I said. It is a fantasy. I don't think fantasies need to be that believable do they? Thoughout the ages all fantasy seems to have been about things we do not normaly find in Tescos... Magic, strange creatures, going to other worlds, talking animals. They all seem to feature in the classic works in one way or another. And as to that one about a bloke being killed and then coming back from the dead! Sheeesh. Pull the other one;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 05:56 AM

Damn sight better than that Potter crap. But that wouldn't be hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Morticia
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 06:28 AM

Nonsense, Dave.....if you can't say anything good, come and sit next to me *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 06:33 AM

Hehehehe - nice one Morty:-) Are you going to give #2 a chance then btw?

And I'll have you know, Mattock, I happen to like crappy pots. I have a whole collection of... Oh, hang on a minute. Have I got it wrong again?

FYO - I don't mind HP either. Quite like 'em in fact. But it is also well known that I am easily pleased. Make of that what you will;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:59 AM

Most of the fiction I read is childrens/young adults fantasy. In fact, I never stopped reading it, I even did a special project on children's fantasy when I was studying Librarianship in the early '70's.

I currently have 14 fantasies from my local libraries on the table behind my laptop as I peck away.

Some fantasies are total pap, some stay in my head forever. Some I love so much that I have to buy them because I want to re-read them & somehow manage to fit them in my bookshelves.

I read the first 2 of His Dark Materials & returned the final one to the library unread. I also read his series set in 1870's London & disliked that too.

I enjoyed the Harry Potter books (how big will the next one be? & when is is due??) & have also added them to my collection.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:29 AM

No word of when the next book is due, Sandra. The Prisoner of Azkaban film is due in June as I am sure you already know:-) Quite looking forward to that as well!

I haven't started The Amber Spyglass yet but I am quite looking forward to it.

As an afficiondo of childrens fantasy fiction perhaps you can help in a quest! Do you know Erich Kastners 35th of May? I read it as a kid and recollect it being a wonderfully bizarre fantasy. I have found it on a couple of sites listed as 'limited availability' and giving no price. If you know it can you remind me if it is as good as I remember or am I reading with rose coloured specs?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:35 AM

Dave - I recognise the author's name but not the book. My local library has some of his books, I'll have a look for it.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:52 AM

Ooooh - You are wonderful. Good Luck.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:10 AM

I must admit I've only read the first of the Pullman ones, but was quite impressed since I did indeed hate those crappy pots, DtG, and the crappy pots films were woeful too. 'Specially the visual effects (hey, that 3-headed dog looked nothing like a real 3-headed dog...)

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:39 PM

I really enjoyed the Dark Materials books and the Harry Potter series, maybe I'm easily pleased too!

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:37 AM

Well, finished the last one on Sunday. What a complicated little piece! To those who have not read the last one. Give it a try. Not the ending I would have wanted but certainly a bit of a surprise. Still not sure who were the winners and losers so, a bit of a mirror of reality in that;-)

His plots do get more outlandish as he goes on but I was never left with the impression tht were contrived. I thoroughly enjoyed them anyway. Love what happens to 'God'. Won't give the game away though...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: mooman
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:42 AM

Well I haven't read them yet but will borrow the three books from my daughter (who is something of a connoisseur of such things and who enjoyed them - especially The Amber Spyglass) following the recommendations I've read here.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 08:24 AM

Dave

My library had a copy of 'The 35th of May, or Conrad's Ride to the South Seas' & I borrowed it today - as you remembered it's bizarre, it's like a crazy dream & is totaly nonsensical & I did enjoy it.

Chapter 1 'It was the 35th of May. And so it was only natural that Uncle Ringel should not be surprised at anything. If what was to happen to him that day had happened only a week before, he would certainly have thought that he or the the rest of the universe had two or three screws loose! But on the 35th of May you must be prepared for anything.'

Another gem (from chapter 6 this time)'...the little girl whose name was Parsley was covered all over with black & white checks ... My daddy is a famous black chieftain of the South Seas. And mummy is a Dutchwoman. Before she married my daddy she was a shorthand-typist in the dessicated coconut factory ...'

The illustrations are great, too - "Hannibal & Gustavus Adolphus were playing with toy soldiers" - "The hens laid fried eggs & bacon" - hen's bum is over the frying pan & fried egg is in the pan!! What next?

Why not see if your local library can get you a copy before you buy one, I'd hate you to be disappointed!

I'm going to have to re-read his other books. I hope I won't be disppointed.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 08:53 AM

Wow! Thanks Sandra, you're a star. I will indeed try the Library. Now why didn't I think of that in the first place...

Glad you enjoyed it BTW. Just goes to show that there is someone out there as daft as me;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 12:17 PM

Oooh! A thread after my own heart!

I started reading children's literature again, with Harry Potter, and I haven't looked back.(Personal fav. is "The Prisoner of Azkiban...hope they do it well with the film, though I haven't been overimpressed yet with the first two, fun as they were.) I liked Pullman a great deal, though I wasn't fond of the second book compared to the first and third. He is complicated, but I appreciated that, and would have adored reading him as a child.

I remember my all-time favorite book (and still may well be) is called "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeline L'Engle, which if isn't on your list, really should be.

And more recently, for those of you who like this stuff, and I'm now addicted...Garth Nix's books "Sabriel" and "Lirael", and the newest due out in April(here in England)-"Abhorsen", are wonderful.
Also, these two authors have come into my stacks this year, books by Peter Dickinson, and Robin McKinley.

And though not strickly for children, unless they are as precocious as I was....books by Sheri S Tepper. She is known, if you can stand the terms they use to pidgeonhole writers-as a Science Fiction/Fantasy/Feminist Writer! Whew! Ignore all that and grab either "Tree of Man" or "The Fresco" or "Grass" to start with and decide for yourself!

Back to why there are name changes for Pullman's books. A lot of times this is a publisher thing. Often it's because they decide that the American Market will relate better to a different sounding title, like with "Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone" over here in Britain, and the "Sorcerer's Stone" in the States. Go figure....e

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM

Go figure indeed, E! And Sheri S Tepper has been a favourite of mine for some time! I love the bit in the... something about stones - can't remember!.. where a particular faction never have their hair cut because they were told that they should never let anyone mess with their heads:-)

Love and peas.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 04:17 AM

I loved "A wrinkle in Time", and Sheri S. Tepper's "Gate to Women's Country" is a fantastic book. Also, the Ursual LeGuin books ("The Tombs of Atuan" ones) and practically anything by John Christopher - I loved those as a kid (and now as well, actually).

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:09 AM

Ellenpoly - I have just re-read the Wrinkle in Time series, & own the 3 Nix books. What are they using to get Abhorsen to the UK - clippers would be faster. I bought it when it was published, March 2003!! There was a thread on Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series a year or so back - lots of great authors were mentioned there.

Fibula - have you read the entire Wizard of Earthsea series - there are now 6 books in the series. (1. A Wizard of Earthsea, 2. The Tombs of Atuan, 3. The Farthest Shore, 4. Telanu, 5. Tales from Earthsea, 6. The Other Wind) The last 3 came out this century, about 25 years after the first 3! I found the whole lot in the library recently & I want to buy them.

Have you folks read Tamora Pierce's books. I bought 2 series, Circle of Magic & The Circle Opens & might buy the Lioness series. I have just given away some unwanted books & now have 3/4 of a empty shelf.

have fun

sandra (with 10 new fantasies to read)

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:05 PM

I will look for all your suggestions, and any others offered! I also adore Le Guin, whose "Changing Planes" just came out here, which probably means it was out in the States for the past year as well! Listen, it's amazing how much time it takes for us to get things on this side of the pond...Buffy and Angel are still together, right? (Just kidding).
If you haven't read the Science Fiction books of Doris Lessing ,which a lot of people don't even know about, they are fabulous.
And as for Sheri S. Tepper, I'm working my way through every single one I can lay my hands on. Top of my wish list is "The Revenants", which apparently is the hardest to still find anywhere. I might have tracked down a copy somewhere in the South of England, but it could take less time to swim back to the States first, sigh...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 06:59 PM

A friend who has seen the stage version is raving about it, even to the extent of driving 150 miles to come and see the rest of it.

Morty - can I borrow your copy then, if you aren't going to be reading it again.... I missed out on it at the library and am too mean to buy my own copy just in case I don't like it!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 07:43 PM

Northern Lights is also a well known strain of mariquana

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:50 PM

Whereas Northern Exposure was a wonderful off beat TV programme!

No seriously though folks; Philip Pullman, not impressed. Michael Moorcock did it better and a lot earlier. I did wonder if PP had read The Worm Ouroborous as a child.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 04:10 AM

If you liked Pullman's trilogy, you might also like The Da Vinci Code - though to me (sorry, critique coming) both of them suffered from a common male problem: they set up the idea that the woman is the Christ figure, and then, baffled as to why this should be so, scratch their heads and say - "oh yeah, women have children, *that* must be why she's important!" - whereas if they had a male Christ figure he would have been saving the world as and of himself! This completely subverts both stories for me. I put them down with a disgusted "pshaw!", having enjoyed the story most of the way through.)

Subject: RE: BS: Philip Pullmans Dark Materials
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 07:22 PM

Wow, Giok. You just remined me:-)

The Dancers at the end of time series - I remember Michael Moorcock introducing Lake Billy the Kid, named after a famous astronaut and entrepreneur of the 20th century who had the hind quarters of a goat...

Cheers

:D