BS: for those going through Hard Times

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: gecko
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 02:31 AM

I came across this thread quite by accident but am so glad I did. Many posts, but particularly those from Pedro seemed to be speaking just to me - however I'm also reminded that though I am in a level place right now, that black pit is always there, just waiting. My mantra for the bad times is that 'this too, will pass', just have to hang on and try to keep a fingernail hold on sanity. I know that I'm coming out of it when my thoughts thankfully turn away from me, me, me and begin to encompass the world again and the loving people in it, without whose help and support I would be lost.

I believe the looming season of supposedly 'festive cheer' will plunge many sufferers into deep depression and perhaps the most Christmassy and kindly deed we can perform is to make sure our friends know that we care about them.

YIU

gecko

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:28 PM

as Jerry said, "The good thing about this cafe is so many of us have been down that same dark road. Sometimes we can give encouragement, just because we've been through it."

seems like a good time for this thread again!

freda

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 02:20 PM

I do the same with several songs.... at the moment, it's 'She weighs 16 stone', by Steel Bunny. Ironic really, as I just found out that Hazel Absalom, one of the singers from SB died in Feb.

My times aren't that hard at the moment, but that black dog is just waiting round the corner.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,John Hardly
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 10:12 AM

Bonepony: Stomp Revival

I've been known to turn "Poor Boy Blues" up loud enough to make the walls shake.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Apr 05 - 09:12 AM

i started this thread for a friend. sometimes friends are an excuse to say something you need to hear yourself .. glad you have revived it, azizi. right now my life is quite peaceful, but i have had some intense moments over the last year. what helps most is other people - it has been good to read some of the posts here.

mudcat can provide so much. and its not the website - its the people in there!

oops, now I'm getting all slushy too, lynne!

keep those tears, songs, thoughts a flowin'!

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Apr 05 - 09:24 PM

Refresh...

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:51 PM

The 10tth post of this thread will contain no whining.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:39 PM

Hey, Allison... comfort and prayers rise up for you. And may the joy of your memories soften the loss..

For you know it, it will be NOMAD!

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for reviving this, Azizi. This will be my second Easter without my best-beloved and although new love and light are showing promises of spring, my heart grieves freshly for the greatest loss I've ever known.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Mar 05 - 12:36 AM

I find certain pieces of music assist in hauling me out of the big blues bag of a morning. One of my faves is an album that is exactly 60 minutes long. Of a black Alaska morn it is worth several thousand foot candles:

Bonepony: Stomp Revival

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Mar 05 - 11:31 PM

There is so much to be sad about in the world now. On personal national, and international levels..

I am still grieving the lost in November 2004 of a very dear siter/friend who was closer to me than even my twin sister was. And I know that the depression I am feeling is partly because we are approaching the celebration of the Easter holiday that symbolizes resurrection...

So I decided to go looking for inactive threads that might speak to this mood or phase that I find myself in..

And I found this thread.

I thank all those who have posted here. The other poems included on this thread reminded me of the words to "Desiderata". And the words to Desiderata reminded me that I had made it through other difficult times by holding on and making it through-one day at a time.

I appreciate all the new cyberspace friends that I am making along the way. Your interaction and words have helped more than you will ever know.
Azizi
   
****

DESIDERATA
Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

[Max Ehrmann, Desiderata, Copyright 1952]

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 02:00 PM

Beautifully put, Allison. Thank you. Whenever we reach out to help - as you just did - we ourselves become stronger, more peaceful, and happier.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:16 AM

I'm beginning to understand that down is normal, just as up is normal while it is happening. What I used to think was that up was normal and down was devient. But this is life, just this: ups, downs, crazy awful unexpected tragedies, delightful unexpected joys, lots of struggle, while we reach out for help and also (when we are able, when we are strong enough) reach out to help, or just to make contact, to say, "I'm here,"-
It's about taking each day, each up, each down, accepting, going through the emotions, loving our fellow creatures, being grateful.

I didn't say that the way I wanted to, but it's about where I am on the learning curve right now.

May 2005 treat us gently. And when it doesn't, may we have love and support to carry us through.

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 06:17 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 11:12 AM

Ah, but our songs have many verses; some good, some bad, some happy, some sad.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM

90 messages on this thread?

Blimey, the song's only got a couple of verses...

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 07:14 AM

The scariest feeling is when you think you might be getting dragged back down, because I don't think I can ever handle going through that again. Here's hoping that everyone else hanging on by their fingertips can inch their way up out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: freda underhill
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 10:39 PM

We Are Going

They came in to the little town
A semi-naked band subdued and silent
All that remained of their tribe.
They came here to the place of their old bora ground
Where now the many white men hurry about like ants.
Notice of the estate agent reads: 'Rubbish May Be Tipped Here'.
Now it half covers the traces of the old bora ring.
'We are as strangers here now, but the white tribe are the strangers.
We belong here, we are of the old ways.
We are the corroboree and the bora ground,
We are the old ceremonies, the laws of the elders.
We are the wonder tales of Dream Time, the tribal legends told.
We are the past, the hunts and the laughing games, the wandering camp fires.
We are the lightening bolt over Gaphembah Hill
Quick and terrible,
And the Thunderer after him, that loud fellow.
We are the quiet daybreak paling the dark lagoon.
We are the shadow-ghosts creeping back as the camp fires burn low.
We are nature and the past, all the old ways
Gone now and scattered.
The scrubs are gone, the hunting and the laughter.
The eagle is gone, the emu and the kangaroo are gone from this place.
The bora ring is gone.
The corroboree is gone.
And we are going.'

Oodgeroo Noonuccal

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 10:16 PM

Excessive contact with reality is not depressing unless it is enforced without the aware will to face what Is.

In fact, the deficiency of that good will is the cognitive source of depression.

A

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Joe_F
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:19 PM

Deficient contact with reality is called mania.
Excessive contact with reality is called depression.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 01:53 PM

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,MOAB
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 11:11 PM

refresh, refresh, refresh!

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Gervase
Date: 10 May 04 - 05:35 AM

Pedro,

No, yuo certainly haven't contributed nothing save negativity - you've opened eyes and ears in other people and made us all think. Welcome to this place, and make of it what you will. Chill out and stay - you've got stuff to contribute, so join a group of friends who sometimes argue but who (mostly) want the world to be a better place. And thank you for your kind words, undeserved though they are.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:56 AM

GOOD DAYS COMING

Everything changes, the wheel
of the law turns without pause.

After the rain, good weather.

In the wink of an eye

The universe throws off
its muddy cloths.

For ten thousand miles
the landscape

Spreads out like
a beautiful brocade.

Gentle sunshine.
Light breezes. Smiling flowers,

Hang in the trees, amongst the
sparkling leaves,

All the birds sing at once.

Men and animals rise up reborn.

What could be more natural?

After sorrow comes happiness


by Kenneth Rexroth

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 May 04 - 06:27 PM

well, Pedro you have just said as I look back that the only thing that helps is a mild anti-anxiety agent. So if you have your lorazepam and a good therapist, you can weather the depressions that you know are inevitable and since you refuse anything else such as a mood stabilizer or some SSRI that makes you feel worse, you can keep keep from being so manic that you lose touch with reality.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:59 PM

Pedro:

Welcome to the Mudcat Cafe, senor! We're all a little bit nuts, but if you don't mind that you're more than welcome, and you sound like the kind of honest wit we need more of. Sign up and come back as often as you like.

You're lucky to cross swords with Gervase who is a fine fellow and decent, as you see. If it had been one of our shitheads you had jumped at, you would have had a tussle on your hands, but it looks from your ready answers that you would have done fine in any case. But, really, most all our folks are decent and you can probably get by bieng less careful, rather than more careful, just relaxing and saying how it really seems. Once you hit your rhythm, you'll be a reg'l'ar in no time.

Welcome again,


A

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: JennyO
Date: 07 May 04 - 02:05 PM

GUEST, Pedro, if we all waited till we had "learned first how to act and operate at some level of perfection" this place would be deserted.

None of us is perfect, so give yourself a break. Stick around for a while, and if and when you feel like it, consider becoming a member.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:43 PM

Thanks for the super posts everyone. Jenny that was a neat one. Appreciate the invite. Was thinking I might join-up. But I'm filled with regret. Seems I always regret all my actions and inactions . Now mudcat is no exception. I should have read, read, read. Learned first how to act and operate at some level of perfection. instead jumping in and posting big empty hot air balloons. I should by now have some wisdom. I feel like a child. I blew it. No excuse. This is anonymous, yet I feel the vibes to my soul… I apologize to everyone. I've contributed nothing but negativity. This has stirred a storm in my mind. I can't do this. If someone has the power out there, please delete all my posts. Time obscures all though. Sorry. P

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: JennyO
Date: 07 May 04 - 01:29 AM

I do believe music is a great healer, and I'm glad the misunderstanding between Gervase and Pedro seems sorted. Pedro, if you stick around you might like to consider becoming a member. As a member you can send and receive personal messages (PM's), as well as other benefits. There are lots of very supportive people in this community. I know from experience.

Meanwhile, here's one I always enjoy when I need cheering up:


The Galaxy Song - From Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life"

(spoken)

Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown,
And things seem hard, or tough,
And people are stupid, obnoxious, or daft,
And you feel that you've had quite enough...

(sung)

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

(waltz)

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

Click for a page with the music files if you want to listen to the song

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 04 - 04:37 PM

I have read that Scotlands greatest poet Robert Burns was a sufferer from depression.
In his most famous poem "To a mouse" this is hinted at. He finishes his address to the mouses' misfortunes with the words....


      "But thou art blessed compared wi' me,
       the present only,toucheth thee.
       While I, weary, backwards, cast ma' ee,
       on prospects drear.
       And forward,tho' a canna see.
       I guess and fear."

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Pedro
Date: 06 May 04 - 04:08 PM

Ahhhggg, Gervase, Looks like it is ME who has some explaining to do AND apologizing… I'm pretty inexperienced at this stuff - this has been my first foray in internet chat. I happened upon this place (mudcat) due to another passing trivial interest just recently - then I saw this thread too, read it and said to myself what's there to lose... I have something to contribute (in the talking can be good therapy mood). But with very mixed feelings about it as well. So it went. Then I saw your post. I mulled over it. I hit the "number" link. I was astonished and wasn't sure what to make of it. I was pretty certain I'd been had ("I" not "we" – paranoia). I went back and forth between the lyrics and post and back and forth some more. At some point, I saw the note at the bottom of the lyrics - which seemed to say "go away, you're a bad joke and I don't want people like you around". I though who, why would anyone do such a thing? So I started reading your posts to various threads dating way back to glean some insight. And I said, Jesus, this guy is a major intellect, has all kinds of interests and knowledge. A professional writer to boot. He has got his shit together big time. And a wit like a stiletto. Plus there were your negative references to non-members... I concluded, this is a very smart prick, who's got this axe to grind – a major chip and all that. Must go around runnin' numbers on people all the time. A totally intolerant character. A big part of me said DO NOT tangle with this guy. You are way out classed. But I'm getting singled out. Do I just fold, or craft some kind of response? The rest is history. A humiliating misunderstanding on my part to say the least. I was delighted (an relieved) at your reply, even as it became apparent that I'd just made a total ass out of myself. I'd expected an absolutely scathing indictment. I'd braced myself for it and had already decided, whatever he says - and it ain't going to be nice, just let it be. Let him reveal what he is. Now I'm in the unexpected position of finding I agree with you on so many levels and points that I can't believe this happened. That was a super cool response - and way better than I deserved. I think this is why so may wars rage on this planet, bad communication, jumping to false conclusions... I'll be way more careful in the future. Thanks and all the best to you my friend, Pedro

*If I hear a good one, I'll let ya know…

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Gervase
Date: 06 May 04 - 06:52 AM

Not throwing the blade at all, Pedro. And if any blade hit home and hurt, I apologise. I meant what I said, in that I usually manage to keep the black dog of depression at bay with music. Literature I tend to avoid, as most of my favourite works tend towards the maudlin, and don't help life the spirits, and comedy writing barely appeals when I'm feeling good, and comes across as particularly leaden when I'm feeling down.
And I'm afraid I have foudn myself singing Dick's song when I'm down - the Victorian bathos of it, coupled with the schoolboyish scatology, do make me smile.
But, as many have said in this thread, there's no panacea for depression, and one person's particular remedy can clearly be offensive to another.
Personally I would avoid any chemical aids, both proscribed and prescribed. My own experience is that they all tilt the brain's chemistry to such an extent that, although the immediate, almost physical effects of the depression are relieved, other problems kick in - things like a change of personality, a loss of motivation and a feeling of a lead weight pressing down on the consciousness.
To repeat - there is no universal cure, but laughter, song and good companionship come closest.
And apologies again if any feelings were hurt. I know depression makes minor hurts seem like greater blows, and perhaps I should have registered that before posting, But I too was being very serious. If you love a good joke, go out and collect and share as many as possible. The best jokes are a different take on the human condition and can be very cathartic.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Pedro
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:48 AM

Gervase;
Well, seems you certainly know how to throw the blade. But why do you bother with such an easy target? Oh yeah, I think I know. You always wait 'til someone's back is turned.

Ladies and gentleman, allow me to introduce the original cyber-bully. If he doesn't like what you're talking about - and especially if you're not a REGISTERED MEMBER - then YOU ARE DISMISSED. This is his turf, he's got knives and he's not afraid to use 'em!

Gervase, I ain't going anywhere because you say to - just who the hell do you think you are? I'm very serious. Now, I'm putting YOU to work. Explain yourself. And make it good. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I still love a good joke.

And thanks so much for your empathetic and intelligent input. You're a funny guy too.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Gervase
Date: 05 May 04 - 01:35 PM

When times is hard, I find myself humming a little number
from Dick Greenhaus.
Music does it for me every time, though. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the blackest of dogs can be dispelled with a good sing. Gets me some strange looks at traffic lights, but what the heck.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Pedro
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:38 PM

Harpgirl; I have tried lith, 3 different times. Alone and combined with other stuff and for long periods. I dosn't work for everyone and I guess I'm one of them. To me, ALL that stuff is designed to beat you down and turn your brain into mush - right where the docs want ya (or where they think you are better off anyway). The side-effects are huge and untenable (for me)...

Glad to hear you think the description could be of some value. I cringed to log back on and look at this. Now I feel better (about it). And that doesn't happen much anymore...

To me, half the battle is realizing what you have - and as you said - the description is (and should be) similar to other cases. But every case is different too. I'm pretty certain I have now drifed into what's considered to be a "mixed state" where you are manic and depressive at the same time (most of the time)- so much for the two being opposites huh?

Once you understand the dynamics and know what to expect, it is possible to heal yourself well past the point where meds would be effective, at least for me, but maybe I'm lucky. I don't know. But I still long for that majic potent too. That's my current opinion and strategy anyway and I'm not recommending that anyone else try it - certainly and at least not iniatially. In fact, I'm not recommending anything. This was just to tell how easily clinical depression can be mistaken for what's really bi-polar (and clinical depression for a good case of the blues for that matter - but where to draw the line???). And its hugely important to identify what you have. Lord knows its hard enough just to admit you're depressed and need help to begin with. That's what I've learned. And every case is different and I have no doubt many will find something they are tolorant to. The main thing is knowing. Its a long journey.

No I haven't read Jamison's book as yet. Believe it or not, I came across a discussion of it on the tube one night this past winter - and I wrote down her name and then lost the note a few days later. Thanks for the reminder.
Best wishes, P

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 04 May 04 - 06:07 PM

Amos - The opposite of depression is contentment. Manic is the other extreme that isn't very healthy.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 May 04 - 05:21 PM

Pedro, your description of Bi-polar I disorder is extraordinarily similar to so many other individuals with the problem. You are doing many others a service with your deescription. But why have you not found the right combination of medications for your problem? Lithium really is very helpful. Have you not read Kay Redfield Jamison's books and research?

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Pedro
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:59 PM

Thanks Nancy - I agree, hopefully there are some big minds out there in the medical world who realize that better strategies are needed.
My best wishes to you as well... and thanks for the kind words.

Pedro

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 May 04 - 03:12 PM

Dear Guest,Pedro...You describe your state very well, and by so doing may be very helpful to someone out there suffering likewise. I think there are a lot of conditions which conventional medicine, allopathic medicine, hasn't a clue how to treat. I certainly agree with you about all the drugs that are handed out like candy. I realize docs may sieze upon this supposed easy quick fix as they really have nothing else to offer. But if drugs weren't relied upon so heavily, perhaps more and better research could find better means of coping. I'm glad to know that you do have someone who understands and supports you. Take care, and best wishes...

Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Pedro
Date: 04 May 04 - 02:46 PM

I know I'm going to regret sending this, but maybe it'll help someone… I never listen to music anymore. I can't even recall the last time I felt a surge of optimism.

"i bleieve the opposite of depression is manic"

That's like saying the opposite of down is the twilight zone… well I give you that could be the answer in a short textbook rendition. But manic states are hardly the opposite of depression. And of course, I can only speak of my own experience herein. But it seems to be a common misconception. The reality is that you can exist for months in a clinically depressed state, then slowly and imperceptibly drift into a manic state. Sometimes, if you're lucky you get to a few hours, maybe day or two if you're real lucky, of a euphoric state – which you believe is normal. You're focused and feel great. You stay to yourself its finally over and I'm normal. I'm ok. I'm like everyone else. I'm well again! Then the euphoric state transforms into something else… You can't sleep for 5, 6, 7 days at a stretch. You're consumed by fear and loathing. And you have no idea of what or why. You're thoughts race far ahead of your ability to verbalize them. Anxiety to the max. Booze, if you're so inclined and you probably are, gives you temporary relief and allows you to catch a few hours sleep so you can go to work. Eventually, you drift back down to another long black winter. You're sure you are going to die soon but you haven't a clue what of. You don't know what's wrong…

Manic depression, most commonly type 1 bi-polar is hard to diagnose in the extreme and even harder to treat. And there is no cure. You can go for a while hiding it from yourself, co-workers, friends and even your family. For quit a long while. You learn tricks. Concentrate. Concentrate. Concentrate. Don't let anyone see how you feel. You walk a very long tight rope. But eventually, the frequency and magnitude of the cycles will overcome you're abilities and you'll fall hard. Jail time for a DWI is a good first wake-up. Then there's loss of friends, career and bankruptcy. All are almost inevitable. If you're lucky, and have a good spouse and family (as I do) they'll stand with you. They have it too. Forget everyone else, in-laws included. They'll bail quick. And if you don't have anyone YOU ARE SCREWED.

You have to go thru a mess of extreme manic phases before you might recognize that all this isn't your typical clinical depression (or some major flaw in your 'weakling' personality). At first I though my manic episodes were just too much worrying. So you compensate with drinking. Then as you get worse, you might believe, as I did, that you're caught in some sort of post flu delirium – for weeks. You can feel is physically. You're sure of it, because you experience the physical and mental symptoms. Aching mucles, headaches you name it. And the delirium is something else – visions. A long state where you're not sleeping or awake. You're on your feet and you're walking on air. You feel like shit and you can't think. All you know is you're sure your going to die, you're scared and above all, you have to hide it.

Eventually you come to understand what you are made to understand. This is NOT going away. Read up on it before going to the Doctor. Because they (most likely) won't anything. At best, you are some bad impersonation of some condition they once read about in a college text book. One actually just said to me, "well you're a drunk. Stop drinking". You're on your own. By now, if you are fortunate enough to have access to medical help, be prepared to educate him/her. Read-up to argue your case. Because you appear healthy and all your vitals are intact. They'll be sure your faking something for some reason. And they treat REAL illnesses all day long. You have to find the right person. There might be a handful of doctors in the world who have some decent insight, do you really believe you're doc is going to be one of them?

They hand out Prozac and other anti-depressants like candy. These so called miracle drugs are a very bad joke for bi-polars. Remember, you go through extended clinical depression and they may seem to help -if you find one you can live with. But you're shooting at a moving target. Eventually you'll hit a manic state and the anti-depressants will multiply the effects in spades – they may even trigger an extreme manic state. Above all, never drink and take Prozac or whatever (and yes, I know they all say not to drink and take meds, but manic depressives have usually been self-medicating with alcohol for years. They are in denial, it's the ONLY thing that has ever help them. And a good doctor should know that)… there is no telling what you might do if you hit a manic state, while drunk and on Prozac. It is an absolutely deadly combination. Take it from one who knows… I could tell you harrowing stories, but it's besides the point and I'm already hogging up too many bytes.

If you're around fifty and you've had PTSD for say 30 years – untreated, there seems to be a high correlation to becoming bi-polar. Just what you needed! Five plus years now. I've tried everything for extended and controlled periods. There is no miracle drug. They make you feel different but no better. And the side effects are horrendous. The people who market and distribute that junk ought to have to take some first themselves. That stuff is all just snake oil. Its fake. The only thing that I've seen that helps is a mild anti-anxiety med. Then you just concentrate. Concentrate. Concentrate. Overcome it with your mind – a moment at a time.

I know there are a lot of worse things out there. But having this does not exclude the other stuff. It's bad icing on the cake. And to anyone who might say, just shoot yourself – well I sat on a lonely New Mexico hill side once with my gun to my head. But I couldn't do that to my family. Maybe you should shoot yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 May 04 - 08:06 AM

Bex, a friend had post natal depression and I saw what she went through. I sympathise and understand what you are going through.

gospel music does it for me too, and altho I'm not a Christian I find it the most powerful, moving, uplifting music. I love it. with music like that i dont care who is what religion anyway, i would happily sit in a Christian church to hear it and sing it.

we have some good singers at some of our singing sessions. on a good night, with lots of harmonies happening, its just magic. same with singing in a choir. singing with other people is like being a bee in a swarm, making honey - you're all vibrating and the sound is vibrating around and through you all. its so unifying,and relaxing, i love it.

best wishes

freda

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM

i bleieve the opposite of depression is manic.

the song of amergin tends to uplift me...it tells me i am a part of everything...and everything is a part of me.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Pistachio
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:01 PM

Having some one listen, letting the thoughts out, unravelling the puzzle of whatever is in doubt

There are so many facets to depression - each sufferer has their own unique definition and depth
A friend has twice delved deep into depression and is aware of a huge feeling of failure. Fortunately he knows when he is on his way down and has learnt to take a step back, find somewhere to level out on while he catches sight of his new route up the ever-sinking mountain of work.
Watching him, being there for him and offering sometimes silent support is what I know I can do.
Many have mentioned 'being there, letting someone know you care, letting them cry out loud. That hand on their shoulder will so often be just the comfort needed.
A friend had therapy that made her face old demons before sending her out on the road to recovery, by digging into her past she laid old ghosts and learnt to put the trouble behind her.
A large dose of friendship, support, and the time to listen maybe all that is required.
So much better to get in touch/keep in touch than to think "if only I had"? too late!

Let someone know You care!

On re-reading I worry that this sounds a bit twee but I suppose we all talk from our varied experieces and this Mudcat therapy is about sharing thoughts/problems/songs/poems.I 'm sure that somewhere out there all the words make a difference. Good wishes,
H.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Mudlark
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:37 PM

I agree, singing is wonderful therapy, if you can muster the energy for it. Another thing I like about making music is that it makes me feel ageless...not young, not old...it's not about age at all, a pleasant escape from time's reality!

Bex, I agree entirely that being told to cheer up because, in effect, you have nothing to be sad about, is rubbish, as jOhn would say. The no shoes, no feet parable was one my mother was overfond of quoting. To get her naggy voice out of my head I wrote the following:

ON THE LACK OF SHOES, AND FEET

My mother always said to me
When I brought her my tales of woe
No shoes?   Or no feet at all...
Which row would you choose to hoe?

I understood the metaphor
But it always seemed to me
Her rote reply was not well thought
For it begged the question, i.e.

Why should a man who has no shoes
Perhaps no food or heat
Feel better about his lowly plight
Because he retains his feet?

Is sympathy so hard to spare
So thin upon the ground
That for a man who has no shoes
No compassion can be found?

If heat and shelter can't be had
In bitter winter cold
A man sans shoes soon finds himself
Sans feet, if truth be told.

And now what good is compassion?
Now that sympathy is much to late?
For once the feet are truly gone
He must live out his crippled fate

Decorum preserved, complacency assured
The righteous now can sigh
"Oh no, how dreadful for you, dear"
Then on their own two feet walk by

How much better to show sympathy
Shoes don't cost that much
How much better to solve that problem
Than to have to supply a crutch

I suspect it's because cheap footwear
Is well within our scope
So puts the onus on us, then,
To help the shoeless cope.

But hospitals are so costly
Surely no one can be expected
To pony up a surgeon's fee.
And so the threat is deflected

Of having to give up something
That might cost us in some way
Thus the unshod can be justly ignored
And there is only the devil to pay.

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

The magic in the singing is exactly what I was talking about -- I have waded through some heavy depressive moods by hugging my ole Dreadnought and singing my voice out.

Other get the same lift from other simple acts of accomplishment -- painitng, for example, or writing something, or putting something to rights that is awry.

A

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,Bex McK
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:18 AM

Nothing like children to bring you joy and break your heart, eh? I have been struggling with postnatal depression, and what makes me angrier than anything else is when people try to cheer me up by saying something like, "But you've got a nice house, a beautiful son, a loving husband, and a good life. What have you got to be depressed about?" That just makes it all feel even worse.

I find singing helps like nothing else, and what really does it for me just now is singing harmony on some of the old timey gospel songs with my band. It's one of the most intensely uplifting feelings-- which is a little odd for me because I'm not a believer. But somehow the act of singing these songs can pierce through that little wall I have around me when I am depressed. Maybe it's just that singing harmonies with other people requires a kind of physical and emotional closeness that you don't always get elsewhere. But there's a magic in those songs too-- something that tells you that it's not unnatural to feel the way you do. I guess it's no accident that music and religion are so closely entwined.

Anyway-- yeah, good thread.
B

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM

Interventions don't always have to be medical; sometimes just re-engaging the individual in simple, comprehensible successes of some little sort can do a great deal.

Freda, my condolences -- my own daughter is away at college and it gets very blue when we don't hear from her sometimes. But she's doing fine and so we just bite our lips and keep marching.

A

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:28 PM

Sue B:

I took it another way in a song I wrote a long time ago:

"For the good old days are still to come
Though the hard times are not over
For we must wear that thorny crown
To walk the fields of clover."

How many people were bitching their heads off, not realizing that they were in the good times? As far as I'm concerned, today is the good old days, until tomorrow. And then it will be tomorrow.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: SueB
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:59 PM

I don't know if this is appropriate at this juncture or inappropriate, but it started singing itself in my head as I was reading the last couple of posts.

All the good times are past and gone
All the good times are over
All the good times are past and gone
Little darling don't you weep no more

Subject: RE: BS: for those going through Hard Times
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:49 AM

thanks, mudlark, you got the idea of this thread. It was not so much to say, don't feel like this, or, change your behaviour, it was to acknowledge those feelings, which come occasionally, pay a trip, and at some point fly away (like that big flightless bird in the first poem).

grief,hurt and pain pay their visits, as do other emotions.

i have copied some of the other poems or songs that people have added to this thread, to my poetry collection.

My youngest daughter, who I love very much, is going away tomorrow, to live in another country, for a while or maybe for a long time. It was good to re read this thread again.

x freda