BS: To join or not to join?

Subject: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 04:29 AM

So Tony has said there will be a referendum on both the Euro and The European Constitution.

As people with a vote in the UK how would you decide?

For myself a sound no to both.

No to the Euro as it hands what is a good strong and reasonably stable currency over to a central bank that will then tell our own Bank of England how to run the economy, as well as increase taxes in the UK (VAT would be levied on many things it is not on at the moment).

I believe there are at least 5 countries which are breaching or ready to breach the Euro-zone measures. They should have been fined but instead have cocked a snoot at the ECB.

No on the European Constitution; Again I cannot see the point of it. Our law is old and well established. It is already being overturned by the European Courts so there is no need for a further check there.

Again we will be handing power over to a group of people who provide minimum represenation to our country.

I am however in favour of open borders and open trade. But a charter is not needed to tell us how to do that. No matter how wrong headed our UK Government can be (of whatever colour) I see no point in having a European Parliament in telling us what to do.

Now I must go and find my Union Flag boxer shorts and socks!

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 05:58 AM

Fully agree with you - Resounding NO to both.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: el ted
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:02 AM

Ditto! I will vote no.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: s6k
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:11 AM

Hell no

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Hawker
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:07 AM

Both resounding NOs from the both of us!
;0)

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Tracey Dragonsfriend
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:22 AM

NO again...

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:23 AM

The main reason for voting No would be the people who want us to vote Yes; and vice versa.

Now if Tony Blair would promise that he would retire to spend more time with his family if he wins, that would make it a lot easier.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM

"Yes" - you all need to move with the times.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:59 AM

I don't think I'll vote in this one.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Flash Company
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:38 AM

Q for a song-

How could you believe me when I said 'Referendum'
When you know I've been a liar all my life?

FC

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:44 AM

Times don't move.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM

How could you believe me when I said 'Referendum'
When you know I've been a liar all my life?
The "slings and arrows" bit I've done I only seem to lose
This pois'n'd chalice I'll pass on and ask you lot to choose

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:27 PM

So now you agree he was lying about Iraq, Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 04:44 AM

Not in the least McGrath, Iraq is probably one of the few things that he has not lied about.

In general I view all politicians and journalists as pathological liars/dissemblers - as none approach any situation with an open mind, the politician has his/her party's policies to defend, the journalist already has his/her slant or angle on the story fixed.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 05:58 AM

"the politician has his/her party's policies to defend, the journalist already has his/her slant or angle on the story fixed."

I don't think that's a mind set limited to politicians or journalists. People who can avoid falling into it are pretty rare birds, it seems to me.

The important thing isn't to avoid making a judgement about what is the truth about a situation, it is to remain willing to modify that judgement in the face of new evidence.

"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." (Chesterton)

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: C-flat
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 09:02 AM

My instinct is to say "NO", but I'm not sure how much of that is based on my dislike for those who seem to have be forcing this transition on us, or how much is based on my fear of not fully understanding the implications. Most of the people I know are in the same position.
I've yet to hear an argument that isn't based on extremes and they are all so contradictory it's hard to weigh it up objectively.
The promise of a referendum will no doubt spark a new assault in the media and I will strain to try and find a voice of reason amid it all before casting my vote.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: HuwG
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 09:39 AM

Yes (or at least, not an emphatic No) to the Constitution, Maybe / Don't Know to Euro.

[Looking at the answers above, I may have just got myself banned sine die from a number of Sessions I have yet to attend, but let's go down fighting.]

I see little instrinsically wrong in the Constitution.

The Euro could do with a few more (enforceable) guarantees regarding interest rates and debt management, but it doesn't seem to have reduced the Irish Republic to a dependent banana state.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 03:05 PM

If Blair promises to go if the vote is Yes, and promises to stay on if the vote is No, that would do an enormous amount to get people to vote Yes. And vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Gareth
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 03:25 PM

Well as we don't know the question yet I submit that a decision eitherway might be a little stupid.

I will enjoy sitting back and watching the Conservatives, and the little Englanders tearing them selves to peices tho !!

(sniggger sniggger)

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 03:44 PM

Well I remember voting for Europe in the last referendum(back in the 70's).Thirty something years later, people are still driving into France and Belgium for cheap vino and fags. I imagined(and I'm sure a lot of other people did) that we were voting to remove those ludicrous duty differences and other barriers to trade.
   I expect I shall vote for Europe in the new one too, in the same generally uninformed European sort of way. Whether politicians will deliver what I would like to see is another question. What clinches it for me is earning euros in Ireland and having to pay a commission to some official money-launderer to get stirling to buy things in Britain. Roll on Europe I say. No more money-changing, no more white vans full of aGolden Virginia.
   Not that it will make Britain part of Europe, or make us eat frogs or anything. Whatever we decide, the fact is that they are foreign and we are not. And a piece of water has been placed between us to remind us of this fact.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Arnie
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 03:51 PM

It's got to be a resounding NO!!! to both the Euro and a European constitution. Why should we be run by a bunch of Eurocrats sitting in Brussels (and occasionally in Strasbourg to keep the French happy) and dictating even more of our way of life. Don't give the buggers any credibility by actually voting for them!!

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 08:55 PM

Non of them forigners voted for us in the last Eurovision Song contest, so why should we use there stupid foreeign money then?

english people should use english money, Euros are a big rip off.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 09:44 PM

Just read that even if there is a 'No' vote B'Liar will not accept it and have another referendum.

So much for the voice of the people and his listening to the people.

What a bloody little oil tanker (seagull rhyming slang)

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 06:43 AM

So if there's a "No" vote he's promising to stay on? That's good news - now if he'll only promise to go, if there's a Yes vote, it should be home and dry.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 08:28 AM

Oops - thought this was another guest or member thread.

Subject: RE: BS: To join or not to join?
From: Flash Company
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:33 AM

EUROPEAN REFERENDUM

Please tick in the printed box to indicate your wishes

The UK government should accept the EU constitution

             YES    [ ]
               NO

Please note, any tick not in a printed box renders this Ballot Paper invalid.

Easy money!

FC