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Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)

DigiTrad:
HOUSE CARPENTER
THE DEMON LOVER
THE HOUSE CARPENTER (II)


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(origins) Origins: Question about a verse in 'Daemon Lover' (8)
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Lyr Req: Child 243 on Bronson (16)
(origins) Origin: House Carpenter (27)
Lyr Req: House Carpenter (#243 - Jean Ritchie) (17)


Roberto 22 Apr 04 - 04:10 AM
nutty 22 Apr 04 - 09:33 AM
Roberto 22 Apr 04 - 01:28 PM
Desert Dancer 22 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM
Desert Dancer 22 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Mary Humphreys 23 Apr 04 - 07:00 AM
Roberto 23 Apr 04 - 07:50 AM
Desert Dancer 23 Apr 04 - 01:26 PM
Amos 23 Apr 04 - 01:46 PM
Desert Dancer 24 Apr 04 - 12:31 AM
Roberto 24 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM
Desert Dancer 24 Apr 04 - 01:31 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Apr 04 - 04:29 PM
Mary Humphreys 24 Apr 04 - 06:51 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Apr 04 - 07:19 PM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Apr 04 - 08:18 PM
Desert Dancer 26 Apr 04 - 02:36 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CARPENTER'S WIFE (Cyril Tawney #243)
From: Roberto
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 04:10 AM

Please, help to complete and correct this transcription, a good recording of Child #243. If needed, I can e-mail a file with the recording of it. Thank you. Roberto

The Carpenter's Wife, Cyril Tawney, The Outlandish Knight, Folk Songs from Devon And Cornwall, Polydor 236 577, 1969 (based on Child B version).

Well met, well met, my own true love
Long time am I a-seeking of thee
I'm lately come from the salt, salt sea
And all for the sake, sweet love, of thee

I might have had a king's daughter
She would fain have married me
I not did care for her crown of gold
And all for the sake, sweet love, of thee

If you might have had a king's daughter
Then I think you are much to blame
I would not it were for a hundred pounds
That my husband should know the same

For my husband he is a carpenter
A carpenter good is he
By him I have gotten a little son
Or else I would go, sweet love, with thee

But if I should leave my husband dear
And my fair sweet little boy also
O what have you got so far away
That along with thee I should go?

I have seven ships that sail on the sea
O it was one brought me to land
I have mariners many to wait on thee
To be, sweet love, at thy command

A pair of slippers thou shalt have
And they are made of the beaten gold
They're lined within with ..... skin
To keep thy feet from the cold

A gilded boat thou also shall have
The oars they shall be gilded also
And the mariners they shall pipe and sing
As through the salt waves we go

They had not rowed ......
A ...... upon the main
But over her shoulder she looked back:
O I wish I was home again

They had not rowed .......
A ...... from the land
And over her shoulder she looked and said:
O set me back on the yellow sand

For I have a child in my little chamber
And I think I can hear him cry
I would not, I would not my babe should wait
And his mother not be standing by

The captain he smiled and .......
And said – No, this it may not be
Behind is the shore and the sea is before
And thou must go, sweet love, with me

She had not been long upon the sea
No, not long upon the deep
Before that she was a-wringing her hands
And loudly did she wail and weep

O why do you wail and .... weep
And wring your hands? – then said he
Do you weep for the gold that is in the hold
Or do you weep for my fee?

I do not weep for your gold – she said
No, nor yet do I weep for your fee
But by the masthead is my baby dead
And I weep, I weep for my dead baby

She had not a-been upon the seas
But days, they were three or four
And never a word she spoke nor .....
And she looked always towards the shore

She had not a-been upon the seas
But six days of the week
Before that she lay as cold as the clay
And never a word could she speak

They had not a-sailed upon the seas
Of weeks there were but three or four
But down to the bottom the ship did swim
And never was she heard of more

And when the news to England came
The carpenter's wife she was drowned
The carpenter rent his hair and wept
And then as dead he swooned

Oh curse be on all sea captains
That lead such a Godless life
They will ruin a good ship's carpenter
His little one and his wife


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: nutty
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 09:33 AM

You can find all five volumes of Child ballads on line here including seven versions (a-g) of #243

Child Ballads

Hope this helps


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Roberto
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:28 PM

Thank you, nutty, but I have Child's volumes. What I would like to get is the text of this version, as sung by Cyril Tawney. It is similar to the b text in Child, in the first part more than later, but, as you see, I can't get many phrases. If some Mudcatter, with English as his/her mother-language, wants to help me and gives me his/her e-mail, I'd send the song, because it is from a long-playing not available on CD. Bye. R


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM

Hi, Roberto,

I'd be interested in that project. I'll PM you with my address.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 03:08 PM

Roberto, are there notes on Tawney's source for that version?

~ Becky


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Subject: Lyr Add: CARPENTER'S WIFE (from Cyril Tawney)
From: GUEST,Mary Humphreys
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 07:00 AM

Here is the transcription with the missing words filled in.
It is a superb version. Thanks Roberto for letting me hear the song.

CARPENTER'S WIFE       Cyril Tawney

Well met, well met, my own true love
Long time am I a-seeking of thee
I'm lately come from the salt, salt sea
And all for the sake, sweet love, of thee

I might have had a king's daughter
She would fain have married me
I not did care for her crown of gold
And all for the sake, sweet love, of thee

If you might have had a king's daughter
Then I think you are much to blame
I would not it were for a hundred pounds
That my husband should know the same

For my husband he is a carpenter
A carpenter good is he
By him I have gotten a little son
Or else I would go, sweet love, with thee

But if I should leave my husband dear
And my fair sweet little boy also
O what have you got so far away
That along with thee I should go?

I have seven ships that sail on the sea
O it was one brought me to land
I have mariners many to wait on thee
To be, sweet love, at thy command

A pair of slippers thou shalt have
And they are made of the beaten gold
They're lined within with coney skin   ( pronounced cooney here. It is an archaic word for rabbit)
To keep thy feet from the cold

A gilded boat thou also shall have
The oars they shall be gilded also
And the mariners they shall pipe and sing
As through the salt waves we go

They had not rowed a bowshot up            
A bowshot upon the main
But over her shoulder she looked back:
O I wish I was home again

They had not rowed a bowshot up
A bowshot from the land
And over her shoulder she looked and said:
O set me back on the yellow sand

For I have a child in my little chamber
And I think I can hear him cry
I would not, I would not my babe should wait
And his mother not be standing by

The captain he smiled and stroked his arm
And said – No, this it may not be
Behind is the shore and the sea is before
And thou must go, sweet love, with me

She had not been long upon the sea
No, not long upon the deep
Before that she was a-wringing her hands
And loudly did she wail and weep

O why do you wail and whenfore weep
And wring your hands? – then said he
Do you weep for the gold that is in the hold
Or do you weep for my fee?

I do not weep for your gold – she said
No, nor yet do I weep for your fee
But by the masthead is my baby dead
And I weep, I weep for my dead baby

She had not a-been upon the seas
But days, they were three or four
And never a word she spoke nor stirred.
And she looked always towards the shore

She had not a-been upon the seas
But six days of the week
Before that she lay as cold as the clay
And never a word could she speak

They had not a-sailed upon the seas
Of weeks there were but three or four
But down to the bottom the ship did swim
And never was she heard of more

And when the news to England came
The carpenter's wife she was drowned
The carpenter rent his hair and wept
And then as dead he swound.      ( an archaic version of swooned)

Oh curse be on all sea captains
That lead such a Godless life
They will ruin a good ship's carpenter
His little one and his wife


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 07:50 AM

Thank you very much, Mary Humphreys, and many thanks to Desert Dancer too. Tomorrow I'll post Cyril Tawney's notes about the song, if he wrote something about. R


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 01:26 PM

In verse 9 and 10, I hear it as a "bowshot off", as in, bowshot = the length of a shot off the bow of the ship, and off = off the shore.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Amos
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 01:46 PM

BEcky:

That would probably be the length of an average longbow shot, a distance that once had great military importance. Not a shot off the bow of a vessel. I'd think, anyway.

A


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 12:31 AM

Either way, it's a measure based on a projectile shot :-) , but he does pronounce as the front of the ship, rather than the item that shoots an arrow; and it's "off", rather than "up".

~ Becky


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Roberto
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

Cyril Tawney wrote: "Collected by Baring-Gould from Joseph Paddon, Holcombe Burnell, Devon, december 21st 1889. Of all the airs to this towering ballad the two finest, in my opinion, are from the West of England, specifically the one from Upwey in Dorset and that from Devon given here".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM

Now, that's the sort of information that you ought to be giving us with the question rather than with the answer! The entire text that Baring-Gould got from Mr Paddon is given in James Reeves, The Everlasting Circle (London: Heinemann, 1960, 69-72). A much shortened and edited text appears (as Well Met! Well Met), with tune, in Songs of the West. There are numerous small changes of word-order, interjections and elisions in the text as recorded by Tawney, but nothing which affects the sense. I'd suggest these small modifications to Mary's transcription:

v 2: I naught did care (orig. "But I naught did hold for her crown of gold")

v 11: ...my babe should wake

v 14: wherefore

It's hard not to suspect some editorial intervention on Baring-Gould's part, even in the MS copy printed by Reeves; the internal rhymes and some of the images are a little too neat, perhaps, and don't seem to be parallelled in other sets found in oral currency. Maybe I am being over-cautious.

The other tune "from Upwey in Dorset" that Cyril refers to was noted by the Hammond brothers from the prolific Mrs Marina Russell, quite a few of whose songs have been posted here in the past (some also appear in the DT; often taken from revival sources and unattributed to her).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 01:31 PM

v 11: ...my babe should wake

I missed that above, I hear Tawney sing "wake" there.

    v 14: wherefore

In this case, it really sounds like he's singing "whenfore", though "wherefore" (= why) makes more sense.

~ Becky


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Subject: Tune Add: WELL MET WELL MET / THE CARPENTER'S WIFE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:29 PM

Here is Mr Paddon's tune.

X:1
T:Well Met! Well Met
T:The Carpenter's Wife
S:Joseph Paddon, Holcombe Burnell, Devon. Dec 21 1889.
B:Baring-Gould, Songs of the West, 1905, 156 (tune): Reeves, The Everlasting Circle, 1960, 69-72 (text)
N:Child 243 Roud 14
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
M:6/8
K:G
E|E2 F G2 G|(FE) ^D E2 G|
w:Well met, well met, my own_ true love! Long
(G2A) B2 B|A2 G/ A/ B2 B/ B/|
w:time_ am I seek-ing of thee. I am
e2 e d2 B/ A/|G2 A B2 A|
w:late-ly come from the salt salt wave, And
G2 F/ E/ ^D2 (E/F/)|G2 F E2 z|]
w:all for the sake, sweet_ love, of thee.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 06:51 PM

I think the final final version is now about right. Many apologies for not listening as keenly as Becky or Malcolm.
My curiosity about the ballad's origin is now satisfied, but now I would like to hear Mrs Russell's version of the ballad. Is it in one of the books in the Hammond & Gardiner 'Marrowbones' series?
Mary


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:19 PM

I didn't listen at all; I failed to buy the record when I had the chance 30-odd years ago (being then a schoolboy without much cash). I was working from the MS as printed by Reeves.

Mrs Russell's set was fragmentary, but came with a rather nice Dorian tune. I don't think Frank Purslow published it, but it appeared in FSJ. I'll post it later.


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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: WELL MET, WELL MET, MY OWN TRUE LOVE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:18 PM

WELL MET, WELL MET, MY OWN TRUE LOVE

(Sung by Marina Russell at Upwey, Dorset, Jan 1907)

Well met, well met, my own true love,
Long time have I been absent from thee.
I am lately come from the salt sea,
And 'tis all for the sake, my love, of thee.

I have three ships all on the salt sea,
And (by) one of them has brought me safe to land.
I've four and twenty mariners on board;
You shall have music at your command.

The ship, my love, that you shall sail in,
It shall be of the fine beaten gold.
I've four and twenty mariners on board;
It is a beauty for to behold.


Noted by Henry and Robert Hammond, and printed in The Journal of the Folk Song Society vol. III issue 11, 1907, 84. Mrs Russell had some exceedingly good tunes, but she was elderly and not in the best of health; her memory for the words was not what it had probably been in her youth.


X:2
T:Well Met, Well Met, My Own True Love
T:The Carpenter's Wife; or The Distressed Carpenter's Wife
S:Mrs Marina Russell, Upwey, Dorset, Jan 1907
Z:Henry and Robert Hammond
B:The Journal of the Folk Song Society vol. III issue 11, 1907, 84.
N:Dorian
N:Child 243 Roud 14
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
M:C
K:F
A2|A2 (GF) E2 (DE)|(F4E2) E2|D6 A2|
w:Well met, well_ met, my_ own_ true love, Long
"(a)" d3 e f2 e2|"(b)" d4 (A=B) c2|d4 z A A|
w:time have I been ab-sent_ from thee. I am
d3 e (f2e2)|d4 A2 G2|F4 G2 G2|
w:late-ly come_ from the salt sea, And 'tis
(d2 c2) =B2 c2|A3 G E2 F2|D6|]
w:all_ for the sake, my love, of thee.
"Variants:" "(a)" d3 e f2 (ed)|"(b)" c4 d2 e2|


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: cyril tawney's carpenter's wife (#243
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:36 AM

refresh


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