BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities

Subject: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 06:59 AM

Hi, just wondering if other 'Catters who live in RURAL areas are experiencing similar problems to my home of Maleny, SE Queensland, Australia.

A large proportion of our population wants to retain our rural charm and community values and strong local ethical economy, in preference to the big-city Woolworths Supermarket moving in and taking over everything.

The usual tactics are to build a huge concrete monstrosity and due to their corporate buying power, make food prices so cheap that the existing local small businesses can't compete. Then when these have closed down and the BigBoys have got the monopoly, UP go their prices!!!

Trouble is, these BigBullyBoys don't buy from local fresh organic growers and producers, but from a centralised point elsewhere in the nation - and neither do they support the local community in donations the way our small businesses currently do. Corporate profits also go to the directors and shareholders elsewhere and are not spent in the local area.

Despite claims of "creating employment", statistics show that more jobs are actually lost when these guys come to your town, due to the closure of other businesses : Woollies like to gain control of "The Big 3" : food, fuel, alcohol - so after establishing the Supermarket, they put in the petrol/gas bowsers, then the tavern/pub. They also, of course, cover the bakery, newsagent, greengrocer, chemist/pharmacy areas (to name just a few) within their complex.

We have just witnessed the developers moving in with the bulldozers and (illegally) destroying stands of mature trees along our river bank (homes of the birds and possums) and in the process, the habitat of the endangered Platypus - all in the name of "Progress" that WE MUST HAVE, just because it suits the Big Business Bullies to increase their power and profits in OUR town : what The Community want for themselves and their future and the town in which they live, counts for nought!!!

I have posted this email from a friend who has posted pictures and data on The Net on the battle so far :

" Hello everyone,
Please take the time to have a look at this website that I have created regarding the protest action we are undertaking here in Maleny against a supermarket development.

http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Index.htm

If you are concerned by what you see and read, please send an email of protest to those able to remedy things:
http://www.ecocyber.com.au/maleny/Residents_Info.htm
Thanks for taking the time to support my town in this action.
Regards,
Steve "


Can other 'Catters report on similar happenings in their villages and towns??? Have any of you WON battles (or the war??)

Thanks,
Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:13 AM

Hi Rich-joy

what a pity to hear that Woollies has eyed off Maleny, one of the most beautiful towns in Queensland.

David Bradbury has made a documentary about a successful battle against developers in Byron Bay, information about it can be seen at:

http://www.frontlinefilms.com.au/videos/byron.htm

there is an article about the campaign here:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/01/14/1042520613023.html

and a here's link to the local rag, the Byron Bay Echo. They may be able to put you in email contact with the successful campaigners in Byron:

http://www.echo.net.au/


good luck and best wishes

freda

ps have some old friends in Maleny and go there every few years - I love it!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: artbrooks
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 08:33 AM

This has been a problem in the States for a long time. What we see now is that the large supermarkets (in my city they are Albertsons and Smith/Kroger) are being eaten by even larger supermarkets like Walmart. Some specialty stores, like butchers, still survive, as do those catering for nitch markets such as organic/"health food" groceries. Its hard to fight lower prices and a better selection of food, though.

Good luck to you, and I hope you come out better than we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: JenEllen
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:29 AM

Yeah, Rich. Put "Wal-Mart" in the search engine and see how much fun we've been having in the states. I have to side with Art. I hope you come out better than we did, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 02:37 PM

Ironically, here in the states, the Woolworth's variety store chain is completely gone--they have been completely devoured by they big discounters(first K-Mart, and then Walmart) even Woolco, which was their big discount chain, is long gone--

This is the 21st century equivalent of being invaded by the Mongol Hordes, and like the Mongol Hordes, when the tide of battle turns, they will steal off into the night, leaving nothing but rubble--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 03:37 PM

They will suck the life out of your town, then sell the shell to some foreign investor.

Beware of no-wage jobs so that you end up supporting THEIR employess as we here in the US have to do for Maul Wart!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:01 PM

They call it progress! Also it's called capitalism.

You are going to have to deal with it.

They have the right to try to do a better job than others at what they do.

If you don't like it, don't shop there. Or move.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do. However, one cannot stop the world from turning. This is not the 20th Century, and as much as we might like to keep the old ways, there is little way one can stop it.

Martin offers some good advice. If you don't like the new stores, don't patronize them.

As to the snide remarks about Wal-Mart, I say, horse pucky. Wal-Mart is probably the largest employer in the U. S. next to the federal government. The people employed there need those jobs every bit as much as those earning six figure annual salaries. Also Wal-Mart contributes millions of dollars to local charities. It has become "fashionable" to bash Wal-Mart because, I suppose, they are so large and represent to the lefties all that is bad about corporations. They do far more good than harm in the communities they serve, as far as I am concerned, and they offer their customers good prices.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:22 PM

DougR

You are so, so right!

There have been other threads that have tried to knock Wal-Mart and the arguement against them is total bullshit.

I shop Wal-Mart. I pay lower prices for name brand merchandise and I like that. Spending more money on the exact same item to prove a point is not really very wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Martin: Yep.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 11:00 PM

Thanks for your comments, all.

However, I must say that many of us moved to the country to get away from the rat race of the Big City or the souless suburban sprawl and its ugly shopping complexes - WHY, Martin, should WE have to keep moving???!! It's not as if these things aren't already available to us , LESS than a half-hour drive away!! Why is it necessary to reduce beauty and serenity and uniquness to the lowest common denominator, so that everywhere is filled with the same crap?? (Once inside most shopping centres and large supermarkets, you could be anywhere in the Western world - they're all manufactured to the same formula ...)

Our town is already well serviced by many small shops AND a really GREAT supermarket, all owned and operated by people who live in the area and whose children go to the various schools in the district and who are a part of THIS Community - not some faceless Board residing down in Sydney or Melbourne! Woollies are NOT responding to a need by the population, but are just staking their claim (i.e. OUR town) for the future, against the other retail giants ...

DougR says : " If the savings from dealing with the large chains over the Mom and Pop stores means nothing to you, then I can understand why you feel as you do "
Well, I definitely don't have money to burn, but I can't believe that it should all come down to money and "cheaper goods" - quality of life and sense of Community, people having time for each other, peace and quiet, less crime and less traffic congestion, beautiful natural surroundings, proximity to wildlife, clean air : far, far, less pollution (atmospheric AND noise AND visual), a sense of space, land to grow healthy produce, - all these are important : all these AND MORE!!! And these are but some of the reasons why people give up, often high-paying, jobs in the city to move to the country.

So WHY must the city be shoved on our doorstep yet again??!!
WHY do we have to have our unique towns of great beauty homogenised into the enervating, ugly, blots of elsewhere???

(sad) Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:23 AM

G'day R-J,
In Katoomba in NSW they put in a Coles/K Mart which replaced an entire block of houses, and they did exactly what you said, underpriced everyone else and drove them out of business, and now, apparently they are the most expensive Coles & K Mart in the state.
Ironically, a lot of us are hoping Woollies & Big W will lob in town soon, to provide a little competition.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 02:31 AM

Of course, Rich has a right to oppose supermarkets. I just don't understand why he's opposing them in this forum. There's little we can do about it and there's so much his neighbors can do. All Rich has to do is convince enough neighbors (It doesn't even have to be a majority. He can stop the mega-merchants in their tracks. (It shoulldn't be too difficult to bring folks around to his way of thinking. He has already convinced us.)
That's the way things work in a free society. No corperation stays where it's not wanted, not because they're sensative, but because they are bottom lined oriented.
I do not patronize the neighborhood Rite Aid. I prefer the independant on the side street and I am willing to deal with the shorter business hours and limited selection to support my community.
But, obviously, there are others in East Falls who choose price and convenience over home town pride. Thus, it has always been. It is the way of the world and the crumbled cookie.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

musicmic

I think the point of this forum is to consult, just like on any other issue, in order to learn tactics!! that's the way things work in a free society!

best wishes

fred

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:49 AM

I s'pose, Musicmic, that considering The Mudcat Cafe is an international forum, of people who care about this planet and their society (i.e. FOLKIES!), I wanted to know if we Down Under, were alone in this problem, or, if a similar problem has occurred in other parts of the world (e.g. English village communities) and what (if any), stategies have been successful in retarding the impact of these huge monopolies in those other places.

I am certainly not against "supermarkets" - just those that are inappropriately situated and that use their money and power to smash any competition - all in the name of free enterprise! Many of us have decreed never to shop there if it takes over our town. Many of us have also decreed never to shop at another Woolworths store again - ANYWHERE!!! I'm enough of a realist to feel that I can adopt the former stance - but probably not the latter!!!!

Although - and I'm only on a SLIGHT tangent here!!! - it is that "convenience" that you mention, of the last 50-odd years of Supermarket foods, that has helped turn a large proportion of Western society into under-nourished, under-energised, yet overfed blimps - and I'm sad to count myself somewhere in those ranks!!!
Er ... anymore of those crumbled cookie crumbs left? ... what flavour are they? ... orange and macadamia! Yum! my favourite!!

Cheers!
R-J
(a She, BTW!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:58 AM

If Wookies is anything like the NZ variety it is like Tesco and Sainsburys here. They are locked in a battle for market share and it is looking like Tescos has won it. 1 in 8 UK pounds are spent in Tescos and to convince us that we should shop there they now sell goods that are anything but grocery. Clothes TV's Pharmacy and they have to open 24 hours and have the cafe to drag-in the unconvinced. Creches, resident chaplains, and singles evenings are the sort of thing they are trying.

Sounds a bit like a community dunnit? Where people wander round wondering at the two rows of shelves for pet food with or without herbs (Huh?) and the diminishing array of traditional fodder like jam and buscuits.

Sadly the 24 hours thing is the one facet that I have to use when I can't walk to my Co-op shop (politcally active and socially aware). I really enjoy that walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:04 AM

Just found this info about a similar problem in the very beautiful Kuranda, in tropical FNQ (Far North Queensland), Australia :


" Hi there,
I just thought I would make contact with your campaign to save the banks of the Obi Obi Creek from development. I strongly support your efforts and will be following the outcome with great interest. We in Kuranda are fighting simiarly a development proposal for a supermarket here. Whilst IGA has pulled out due to community opposition we will now go to the Planning and Environment Court to have the development approval thrown out. Similarly, and our main concern and campaign is against proposed development that will turn Kuranda "Village in the Rainforest" into a city of 50,000 (present population 3,000) . This is facilitated by the construction of a four lane highway through World Heritage Rainforest from near Cairns to Kuranda, a distance of 14 kilometres at a cost of $500,000,000. That's right, half a billion dollars, part of which will come out of the State budget for roads at the expense of all other needs in Queensland and destroying at least 50 hectares of World Heritage rainforest, inhabited by rare and endangered species including the Cassowary. Nothing is sacred anymore from development. "


I won't give her name as I haven't sought permission to copy this onto the Web (sorry)

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:18 AM

Up the road in King St newtown (groovy part of Sydney, for those not from Oz) a MCDonalds set up. Now King St is the home of restaurants -you can walk up the road and by food from any country you want to name - African food, cambodian, turkish, vietnamese, tibetan, greek, Thai, lao, italian, french, mongolian, etc etc

I'm pleased to report that the McDonalds had to close down through lack of business - the competition was too stiff, and people in Newtown enjoy their food.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Peace
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 03:32 PM

One of the 'answers' is as follows. Get lots of people together and purchase certain staple foods in bulk. People pay for what they order up-front, and you and your friends order by the truckload.

Certain canned foods are ubiquitous (sp?--first time I have ever had a need for that word) to regions or areas. So, buy caseloads and sell only caseloads.

Peas, beans, corn, noodles, like that. It will mean you have to buy the fresh stuff from the store, but you will be able to realize a substantial savings on things you use very frequently. I was involved with something like that years back. There are a few simple rules.

1) You want to split a case, that's up to you, not the 'co:op)
2) If you weren't at the meeting, you get what's on the list or it ain't coming
3) You pay cash, up-front, period.
4) When the order comes, you arrange to pick it up. We ain't Pizza Hut and we don't deliver.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: musicmick
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:43 PM

Cher RJ,

I wish you all the luck in the world. You will need that and more. If, like youself, others succumb to the iniquities of mass culture cuisine and the lower prices that are available from chain retailers and the wider selection the store size permits, you have a hard row to hoe. It is, only, when a sizable number of customers elect to support their environment, at some cost to themselves, that the charm of traditional small town life can be saved. Of course, if your town is small enough, you could rally your fellow citizens to have zoning laws passed to preserve the local flavor and integraty.
What it all boils down to is democracy. By using the political and economic tools available to you in a free siciety, you can accomplish your goals. I'm a traditionalist, so I wish you the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM

Brucie has suggested what is basically the 'original co-op' style. Incidentally, if the cuurent local Supermarket initiated something like this, Woolies might be foreced to think twice...

The last time I was up there for your ABOFOTS, I noticed as I was drivingback, that the whole North Coast (visible fromo the mountain road) now is a sea of light. When I first started going up there in the 1970's, it was a sea of dark...

Just too many people...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:55 PM

They have an excellent food co-op in Maleny - i think its businesses like that that the locals are worried about being muscled out by the big W.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Sadly, the town citizens thought that their town plan WAS in order : they'd held many meetings over the years to put forward their vision of what they wanted for their children and then forwarded the results to the council to be part of "The Plan".

But, all it takes are a few trusty councillors, and employees of a council (or govt dept) far away with a bigcity-culture, to be in the pocket of the developers and big business, and to then "lose" or just DELAY the paperwork and :
hey presto! legal vandalism!

So it's hard not to feel powerless against the bastardry!

We HAVE alternative places to shop - like I said, a great supermarket - AND a great Co-Op and organic greengocer etc. etc. - and the big stores are a half-hour drive away. It's NOW the problem of having the beauty and the wildlife habitats at the entrance to your town destroyed and to be "legally" replaced by people from far away with an ugly concrete block, complete with big advertising signs and water pollution and traffic jams and an eventual monopoly ...

I reckon it's makes for a healthier society for the money and goods in a town (or city) to be in many hands, not just a few (which is the ultimate aim of the Woolworths directors).

rant over - it's ANZAC Day here - and as the Maleny Protestors' banner says - "Thank You For Our Freedom : Lest We Forget"

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 10:46 PM

There are lots of successful strategies for upending these folks--the critcal thing is that you must be organized, and everyone must be totally committed to see it through. The true problem are the officials of one sort and another who are in the pockets of the developers, but if you root them out, the battle is much easier--your people must be committed for the long haul, though--because often, it victory comes to those who just show up--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:16 PM

Rich-Joy, they came to your town because their market research said that they would succeed there. And they will succeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:24 PM

The Pittsburgh Food Co Op is alive and well despite a big monopoly supermarket chain, and the arrival, two years ago, of Whole Foods, in the same part of town. Perhaps your locals could consider organizing co ops.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 10:10 AM

As a longtime advertising/marketing professional, Martin, I can assure you that marketing research is often really shoddy work--more often than not, it is contrived to support the view of who ever happens to be calling the shots in the corporate boardroom--

The real reason that these guys are expanding is that their business model requires expansion and they have the capital to expand--when the capital disappears, they sell out, close down, and move out--it costs more to stock and operate these mega-stores than it does to build them, once they go into the red, they have no hesitation about shutting them down.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:08 PM

True, I am also a marketing professional for a large corporation. But there are the ones who succeed and fail just like in anything else. How many Wal-Marts, McDonalds, and Walgreen drug stores have you seen go out of business?

So what if they have th capital to expand? That to me is not the point. It's that they have every right to do so. If they suck at it, that is the way it goes. You can write ordinances to keep them out of your town, but your residents will only go to the next town where they have opened up instead. Your town's businesses will lose and your town will lose the tax revenue.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Peace
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM

I agree with Martin. However, do not neglect the co-op idea. It does work and I does save people money. Eventually, however, all of it feeds the BIG machine.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM

No they don't go out of business they just hang on in there and slowly wither.

Maul Wart SUCKS

democrats BLOW

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:31 PM

I can't see anybody from the UK inputting on this. So here goes.

I live in a small rural town in England. population 3500 to 4500.
Next year TESCO will have a supermarket installed here.
What will the effect be to the local shops?
I think it will drive them out of business. We will be left with cafes and pubs.

Sure it will provide jobs and possibly bring more wealth to the town.

However, what will be lost is the fantastic small shop supplying specialised help and care. You go into these shops and they know their products and can advise at length on their products. They have time for you. You always see the same person, and their advice is so valuable. They support the community in many ways.

I personally don't see why Tesco's need to encroach on our small town at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:41 PM

Perhaps, but I believe there will always be niche for the small business that provides a needed service and does it better than the big guys. The one think lacking with most of the megastores is good service. You save money, but they can keep their prices lower because, basically, you serve yourself which saves the store labor cost.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 10:30 PM

Thanks, one and all, for your continuing comments.

Maleny, in Queensland, NE Australia, already has more "Co-Operatives" than most other places (I think second only to Mondragon, in Spain???)

Sadly, having strong alternative practices in place already, doesn't keep out the Big Bullies when they decide they want IN ...

And as I've said before, we already have a Woollies about 20minutes away in the next town (where many small businesses have NOW gone to the wall) - and there are any amount of super stores down on the coast, less than a half-hour's drive away.

However, Woolworths' aim is to monopolise every small town's economy, whether or not they're welcome OR needed!!! (i.e. greed)

I can't believe that "good business" ONLY = more money ... thankfully some businesses today are becoming more ethical and incorporating the "triple bottom line" into their philosophy instead ...

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 11:52 PM

Who could forget Joni Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi:

"You pave paradise and put up a parking lot"

Woolies sucks. It is just a huge money vacuum cleaner. Woolies don't own anything. They do deals with developers and lease their buildings for a 15 year term. They don't own the food they sell. It's contracted from the growers who they then screw into the ground with ever more stringent demands for unblemished goods.

"Give me spots on the apples and leave me the birds and the bees"

Poor Misery
(Rich Joy's Partner)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,craig
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:33 AM

Lesson number 1.

Big business and property developers cannot be trusted.

A couple of months ago Woolwoths said they weren't going ahead with this project. The town sighed with relief and got on with its business.

At the time I thought it was too convenient and probably a developers trick to fool people into thinking the battle was won.

Of course, Cornerstone and Woolworths then turn up Easter Tuesday and demolish the forest before anything can be done.

This effort is typical of the development industry. Fool the pople and attack when they aren't looking.

As it was, Corenerstone acted illegally by clearing riverine vegetation. Don't expect them to be prosecuted though.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:24 AM

Over here in Germany we have similar problems.
In my home town (~25.000) all the smaller food shops (we call them Aunt Emma Shops) vanished, only one still survived due to his special service delivering goods to the lot of pensioners who can't walk and carry. In 7 years the keeper will close because of old age, and he won't find a successor.
All butchers with joint pubs selling meals and self made cider have closed, too. Instead we have got a lot of new restaurants run by Italians, Chinese, Greeks, and Turks. They are mostly run by entire families: it's cheaper because no wages are paid to family members.
There are still bakeries and butcheries, some old, some newcomers.
We have a market twice a week at the main street since medieaval times where the peasants sell their products. The ware is a little bit more expensive than in the supermarket, but the products from the land are of a higher quality.
1. Landownership: The town has bought a lot of areas in better times; it is not obliged to sell to any possible buyer if the community doesn't like his plans.
Due to German laws the community has some very fine instruments to keep the big corporations at bay:
2. The plan for area use: Here the community decides what can be built in a certain area and what not (general rules)
3. The building plan: Corporations allowed to use a certain area can be stopped when the planned building doesn't fit the communities restrictions (special rules).
3. A resolution of restriction: Special goods and shops can be banned from the general rules of 2 when area development runs to the wrong direction (we did it sometimes when I was in town council to protect the shops in town centre).
In supermarket sector we have a monopolist in the country; we just got an interesting offer by another corporation for an area in my town. The monopolist is bidding against; who ever gets it will pay by buying the land for the next 3 planned social projects. I personally prefer the newcomer, due to an old proverb: competition makes business lively (especially for the customers, with lower prices.)

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:33 PM

interesting point about taxes, Martin Gibson.
here in Vancouver as Im sure probably elsewhere, wall mart has been
wanting to open a store - but because of their size and the promise of jobs they want a break on property taxes - something those smaller stores dont get.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 07:45 AM

why dont we build cities out in the country away from all the crowds congestion and pollution?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 08:31 AM

What id god's name is a nitch market ?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM

I am more afraid of Martin Gibson's opinion than I am of Wal Mart.
He assumes that we have control over capitalism...that we choose where we shop(if big business destroys little business, big store are the ONLY choice. MOVE....spare me Mr. Gibson. Also the assumption that they do it better is an odd one..it equates bigness with ....what ?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:21 PM

Mr Gibson belongs to the exclusive club of middlepeople, so you have to understand that if by competition Ozzy farmers work for nothing to compete with Asian famers who pay Woolworths to display Asian veggies the middlemen always collect because they own the warehouse as well as the Minister for import and shopping.

They never lose, you the consumer always get the shaft!

What can you do? Just don't shop at the cheap shoddy poison food mega stores! I don't as well as many others here in the US where shopping everywhere except Maul Wart is a saving.

We save money on return trips with defective shoddy broken in the package hardware, we save money on health bills by not eating Maul Wart pinebread ( made from wood chppings! ) or their shoeleather meat, or their watered down milk, or their underweight chickehshit coffee, or their wastecrude oil products like Smelly Valley Butter That Will Not Fatten ( sure you'll be dead from eating it )... and so on.

We save out community valable living wage jobs by supporting the local stores that pay a living wage. We save our tax burden by restricting the number of grossly underpaid Maul Wart employees who would be sucking off the welfare system.

So Ozzies if you care to save your society you can, though I agree one large bulldozer and a willing mob might be a little be faster In the end it will be the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM

Martin Gibson calls this progress, I beg to differ. It simply another form of colonialism, empire building by the powerful few and a sure-fire way of controlling the masses by controlling what and where they consume. It is repressive and regressive, and the only things that progress are the monopolies that large corporations operate with more and more impunity AND government assistance, as well as assistance from those of us silly enough to think that those saved dollars in our purses don't come at a terrible cost . I live in Maleny, I live on not very much money, but I'd rather spend my last $ on a basket of local organic produce from the co-op, than support those lifebloodsuckers Woolies and have a trolley- full of cheap tainted goods.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:52 PM

Right-On, Sista!!

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:14 AM

Actually, Martin, I can take you to a couple of abandoned Walmarts that were opened and closed within the last six years not far from the place I used to live North of Philadelphia--I remember the zoning adjustments and the local political fighting, including massive public concern at the traffic problems that the traffic lights and access roads would(and did) cause--

Walmarts are very vulnerable to certain sorts of competition, and oddly enough, often end up becoming their own competitors--If you care, there are some "guerilla" marketing strategies that can grease a Walmart pretty quickly--the only thing is that it doesn't have anything to do with organic co-ops or such things--

My problems with Walmart have to do with the fact that, A) though once they were a good employer, they seem to have become fairly despicable, B) Their stores are increasingly depressing and filthy, and C) their merchandise gets worse and worse (a result of their policy of forcing their suppliers to reduce prices every year)--

I actually like megastores, having grown up surrounded by Meijer's Thrifty Acres--though I don't think that they should be used to replace scenery--

The great anarchist visionary, Michael Kropotin, essentially predicted megastores, and the mass produced, low cost merchandise that fills them--they offer the working classes goods once only available to the aristocracy--and they represent an economy that is focussed on serving the classes that sustain it--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Steve Swayne
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:16 AM

Hello all,

I have read the threads of this discussion topic with interest. You may be interested to see the website created by the protesters in Maleny: http://www.malenyvoice.info

Thanks guys, and keep up all the positive comments.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Aussiepom
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 10:22 PM

All the best to you, The Villan. If you feel strongly about your small town, keep talking to your friends about it. What do they think about Tesco moving in? Here in Maleny (around the size of your town) we have a very active group standing up for what we believe in. Not everyone feels the same. All are free to have their say. Ask people what they want in their in town, you may find you have a lot of support to stop this happening. Listen to the people who wantTesco - then if they're misinformed (some people still think it means more employment, cheaper shopping) do the research to find out what really happens, and share it with them. Once people realise the real consequences Ithink more would be passionate to stop the spread of big corporations and support a healthy local economy.

It's great to see the debate happening so widely. It's time to realise that the only reason these big corporations are so powerful is because we support them! The more people that withdraw suppport (eg don't shop there; lobby against development etc) the more we empower ourselves and stop feeling like victims of the big guys.

Even if you're the only person in your town that feels that way, you could enjoy the knowledge that you don't support an enterprise you don't believe in. I bet you're not the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 11:05 PM

A couple of great websites relating to this debate (both from USA):
www.rmi.org is the site of Rocky Mountain Institute. Shows that there are ways for towns to grow at their own pace, and for small local businesses to thrive and townsfolk prosper. www.reclaimdemocracy.org - restoring citizen democracy over corporations.
Good to remind ourselves that even if the US government leaves MMMUUUUUCCHH tobe desired, there are some great people in that country making great attempts to restore the balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From:
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:00 AM

Some may say 'they don't want progress to come into there town', some may say 'U can't stop progress', others say 'progress is good for there town'. All I can say is we as people of this world have the right and obligation to ensure that progress enriches the environment and not just the pockets of those who bring it in. We as concerned members of our community must remind those who wish to "BULLIE" there way in, that it is up to us the direction that "progress" is taking OUR community. WE MUST ENSURE that this happens, not only for our and our children sake but the sake of OUR PLANET as a WHOLE. For All Creatures Great and Small.
Marko Cimesa, Maleny Protest Site, Qld.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:43 PM

THANKS, Guest 28th April, 11.05pm - those links were very interesting!

Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 11:13 AM

Heavens to Murgatroyd, where does one start?

Firstly, I note that a question asked was "What is a nitch market?". Maybe I can help. In Australia, there has been a plague of nitches for some years. They are suspected to have been carried in a shipment of all-blacks (not a racist term) from a country (unnamed) to our immediate east. They are a small, uncomely mammal, but with a beautiful, soft fur for which the market has grown ("nitch market"). Rich-Joy's partner, Poor Misery (rofl ... I know him!) is, in fact, a nitch-sexer. (I would hasten to point out that this is a passive occupation, rather than an active pursuit.) He has also done the almost impossible, by keeping a nitch alive in captivity. It is a particularly fecund male, named "Four Ball Paul".

But I digress. The hard reality of Maleny goes thusly.

It was once a very small town, seen (by the "great majority") as having a few unwashed folkies carrying various unsavoury diseases, and indulging in various commie activities like not doing paid work, sharing with each other, and free love (must write about that one day ... I could never find the free variety ... and me being such a good-looking bloke, too ...). So far, so good. No-one is going to create a problem, except for the few people who believe in communes because it gives them their own power base.

Years pass, and city living becomes more stressful, while those pinko folkie radicals of yesteryear become the establishment of today. And they now want to actually live the life to which they once paid lip service. And where do they (read "we") go? To join the ranks of those verminous drop-outs in the sylvan surrounds of places like Maleny. It is happening all over Australia, and probably USA, UK, etc etc.

And what happens then? The fields gradually become housing, then speed up to become housing estates. While this is happening, the corner general store, local bakery, book swap, co-op club (whoops!), all either become larger, or close down. Why? Because the Big Boys are coming (see Cyril Tawney's "The Oggy Man"). They come because they believe they will make a quid, because they know that the town has developed to the stage where it is ready to lose its character, and become "just another town". Only the local people can stop this by doing things that have already been suggested - but will it happen? Once a place passes a certain size, it needs a very single-minded community to prevent unwanted development, because the truth is that a certain proportion of the community will welcome the development. And the Big Boys only need a proportion to start with - others will follow later.

I hope you and you neighbours win, Rich-Joy. Maleny is a great place to visit. Unfortunately, it seems it is also a great place to live, and perhaps too many "uncommitteds" have moved in. Get them along to the folk club, and we'll work on their conversion.

And keep the nitches out of the lettuces!

Love,

Shimbo