BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 01 May 04 - 07:56 PM

ABC-TV Qld current affairs programme on Friday night showed how the concerned citizens of beautiful Buderim (on another mountain top, but closer to the coast) and Coolum-on-Sea (on the way to Noosa) have already lost their Battles With The Developers of Large Souless Shopping Centres, destroying the character of their towns ...

Maleny is gearing up for the long haul.

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 04 - 12:30 AM

Well, I can see no one here has stopped Wal-Mart because of this thread. I believe they are still the world's largest company. I know for a fact that all of their suppliers love them. They provide their suppliers with tons of demographic and marketing information about themselves and the supplier's competitors.

Piss, moan, whine. This is just another typical thread bashing big business and/or Republicans.

I shopped at Wal-Mart the other day in a nice, clean store. Bought my son his first razor, a fine brand name. Bought a nice new desk chair also that I am sitting on right now. Fine deal and easy to put together. A great value.

So maybe a few Wal-Marts went out of business in some shitty areas that couldn't support squat. Hey, if they couldn't support Wal-Mart, they couldn't support much else.

And remember all you organic eating old folk-singers out there, shit is organic also.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 02 May 04 - 12:04 PM

Thank you, Martin ... I am a bit lost on where the organic argument came from, but I accept your familiarity with your subject.

Shimbo

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 May 04 - 10:18 PM

You don't have to be familiar with it to know a simple fact, birdbrain.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:32 PM

Actually, Martin, Walmart's suppliers aren't necessarily too happy with them--check this out The Walmart You Don't Know. As to your snide remarks about the areas where the two Walmarts closed--there are plenty of other stores there that have not closed, in fact, they were both in high growth areas with lots of new retail development--

The thing about Walmart is that it sells to the bottom end of the market--a Walmart is great if you have no choice but to shop at those dumpy "mom and pops" that folks love to eulogize(but hated to shop at)--but the folks who move into the sprawling, expensive new developments want better quality stuff than Walmart carries, which is why Target, Circuit City, Kohl's etc are cutting into their market share--

Walmart sells low priced, low profit margin merchandise--their marketing strategy is to increase sales volume and to force their suppliers to keep cutting prices--that means the quality of their merchandise inevitably goes down--the thing is that the great majority of consumers want higher quality, and can afford to pay for it--where does that take Walmart?(Hint--Where are Woolco, Ames, and Jamesway?)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 May 04 - 06:08 PM

So what? Really, so what?

Snide remarks? So a few Wal-Marts closed out of how many in this country? Hundreds? I'll bet less than 1% have closed.

What is so wrong with increasing sales volume and trying to get a better price from suppliers and passing it on to your customers? why don't you take a course in Business 101?

It has nothing to do with quality, especially when it comes to brand name merchandise which is virtually all the Wal-Mart carries. wal-Mart has very little if any in-house brands. don't like the way Sam's Cola tastes, don't buy it. I don't. It's crap. However, if they want to sell it for a quarter a can, they sure have every right to.

as for Target, they have the same brand names as Wal-Mart for more money.

But as I said, your issue about quality is full of holes. Wal-Mart cuts big time volume deals with it's suppliers for special prices on brand name products. The suppliers aren't being forced to do this, but Wal-Mart pays their bills quickly and gets the brand the exposure they want.

I still say that if you are paying more elsewhere based on silly principles, you are not really too good with money.

Target has the same brand names for more money. I never buy anything there. Kohl's on the other hand are geniuses as deep discounting clothes. You cannot buy Levi's anywhere for less. but you sure can't buy household or drugstore items there.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 May 04 - 06:41 PM

Hey Melany you do have a choice! In California Maul Wart had its arrogant OSU executive noses shoved up their own arses by City Planning, all you have to do is deny them permission to build. If they have already bought your city council, then take those buggars out and hang em - next elect your own people and revoke the planning concent.

The rest is easy ' p1ss oft Maulers go grow your stinking diseased Warts someplace else '

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 03 May 04 - 08:11 PM

Hey Martin, maybe if you tried eating organically you would rid your body of all those nasty chemicals that are causing you to be so vitriolic towards your fellow folkies in this forum ( I am assuming that you consider yourself to be a folkie ??) hmmmmmm......folkies........folk music.......music of the PEOPLE..........hmmmm, seems like there might be some silly principles sung about in folk songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:10 PM

Actually, I gave up being a folk singer years ago.

I just sing gregorian chants in Chinese these days accompanied by a flugelhorn.

Keep humming. Maybe one day you'll get lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:17 PM

I assume, Martin, since you said that you worked in marketing, that you realize that the "brand named products" that Walmart sells are made especially for Walmart, and are not necessarily comparable to the stuff with the same brand names that are sold in other stores. As to Target, fact is that a lot of the stuff in Target carries the Target label--better quality by far than Walmart--and fashionable to boot--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 03:19 PM

MTed, if you believe that about the brand names that Wal-Mart carries, I will easily sell you a bridge over the desert. Brand names will not jeopardize their reputation for quality that way, especially sold in the high volumes that Wal-Mart sells them. As I said, Wal-Mart has big time buying leverage and will cut a high volume deal with suppliers that they cannot refuse. The suppliers make up for their lost profit margin with high volume gross profit dollars and so does Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is a champion at big-time negotiating and cutting their profit margin way down on some products as loss leaders to get you in the store. Once there the consumer buys other items that Wal-Mart buys also at a great negotiated deal but does NOT pass on all the savings to you, so it all evens out for them.

It's called merchandising and no one in the world does it better than them.

As for Target, which is owned by the conglommerate Dayton-Hudson, I think their fashion is worthless even though they are marketing it as trendy.   By the low depth of hard goods inventory in their store, and their higher prices on those items, they have no where near the buying power that Wal-Mart has, house brand, notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: DougR
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:20 PM

It's amazing to me that you, M.Ted, and perhaps others, embrace Target while vilifying Wal-Mart! Martin is correct. Target is solely owned by the Dayton-Hudson Corporation which is a far cry from a Mom and Pop conglomerate.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:26 PM

From the article, linked above:

>Levi didn't actually have any clothes it could sell at Wal-Mart. Everything was too expensive. It >had to develop a fresh line for mass retailers: the Levi Strauss Signature brand, featuring Levi >Strauss's name on the back of the jeans.

Wasn't the same Vlasic pickles in those gallon jars at Walmart as were in the Vlasic pickle jars in the supermarkets, either. Tell you what, you go ahead and wear your Walmart clothes and I'll wear the ones I bought at Target, and lets leave it at that--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:48 PM

Forget it. why should I leave it at that?

You pay more for the same garbage which is foolish.

Let's leave it at THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:58 PM

It's always been my understanding that all the clothes in the world are manufactured in about three places - they just put different labels on them, depending on where they're going and who's going to buy them. ;-) Target and Wal-Mart have different sorts of things - I have bought clothes at both. The independent shops in Nashville are invariably specialty boutiques that I simply CAN'T afford to shop in. How's that for irony?

Here's another thing to consider: when enough people move to a "rural" place, they start kvetching about all the stuff they don't have within a convenient distance. Some people WANT a supermarket. Some people WANT a Wal-Mart, or a Target, or whatever, because they don't want to drive 50 miles to the nearest grocery where they can buy baby spinach leaves (just for an example) in a bag. They want baby spinach leaves in a bag in their own neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 05:48 PM

Hey Kim C. Nice yiddish!

Must be cool to live in Music City, USA!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:48 PM

Smart folks don't want any of them.

Maul Wart is a disease which blights any community by sucking the life out of it! It takes your tax dollars, it closes American manufactureres of things you used only need replace every 10 years with something that you will have to replace in 10 minutes - because is was made by greed in a country called childabusegreedland.

In the old days they had a saying about this kind of thing. It ain't the roll but the quality of it.

You pays for what you gets and at Maul Wart you gets ripped off - remember falling prices for falling value!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:25 PM

I've adked this question before but have never really been answered. Isn't there some kind of law about monopolies in the U.S.??? Isn't this what those laws were intended to prevent? Don't you think the little guy deserves at least a fighting chance? I know I don't want my community ruined by a big box.

I think most of the people who want WalMart must be the kind of people who are living in isolated, monogamous relationships. They like to drive everywhere and use their cars as insulation against the outer world. They plug into their t.v. and computer as a way to socially interract with others. They are usually quite poor or have come from an impoverished background and have no critical consciousness. They strive for instant gratification. They think they are getting a deal because they cannot see the long term implications. They think that progress means moving ahead without any concern for the quality of life. They don't have many friends but its always the other guys fault. They absolutely have no sense of community. Above all, they take no responsibility for anything.

Oh, but there I go again, generalizing.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:43 PM

Well said, Dianavan!


This is the Australian situation at present :

" ... Anti-Competitive Conduct and Pricing :-

Alan McKenzie, spokesperson for the National Association of Retail Grocers of Australia (NARGA), was interviewed by Stephen Long on ABC Radio on 26 August 2003. He said that Woolworths and Coles Myer have the highest grocery retail market concentration in the world, approaching an unparalleled 80%; their control of petrol is about 30%, and liquor is 30­-40% of the market. In the UK, the three biggest supermarkets control less than 50% of the market; in the US, the top three control less than 25%. Nowhere else in the world do they have 30% of the petrol market. Some critics say that these lower prices won't be sustained once they squeeze suppliers' margins and force competitors out of business.


NARGA issued a media release on 17 December 2003 that announced how a recent High Court decision has dealt a fatal blow to the misuse of market power provision (section 46) of the Trade Practices Act.

Mr McKenzie writes: ""There can be no doubt that the latest decision confirms that the High Court has taken an unduly narrow view of section 46, a view that does not do justice to the parliamentary intention behind the provision.""

He goes on to state: ""Effective laws deterring abuses of market power are critical to the promotion of competition for the benefit of consumers. Unless the abuse of market power is prevented, efficient smaller players can be destroyed by larger and more powerful players with their deeper pockets and every interest in protecting any inefficient practices.""

He concludes: ""Given that a firm could engage in the same below-cost pricing or other potentially anti-competitive conduct, with or without market power, it is clear that in the High Court's interpretation of the key concept of taking advantage, there are few, if any, types of conduct that will be caught by s46, simply because such conduct can be engaged in by firms with or without market power.

Section 46 of the Trade Practices Act allows a company to fix prices below cost in order to eliminate competitors if that company does not have substantial market power.

Woolworths spent over $10 million fighting the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) in a Victorian Court over price fixing and misuse of power. One of its Safeway stores had stopped Tip Top bakeries from selling factory seconds and discounts at a stall at Preston Markets. Supermarket suppliers dropped Tip Top until small retailers ceased discounting. Woolworths CEO Roger Corbett commented: ""We don't deliberately undercut our small competitors."" If this case goes to the High Court, it will probably be overturned because they will be able to say that Safeway did not have substantial market power.

Federal Labor has said that it will amend the Trade Practices Act to prohibit predatory pricing. It highlighted the recent High Court rulings as weaknesses of the Act in dealing with predatory pricing, and cited section 50 of the Canadian Competition Act as one approach worth considering. This ruling prohibits firms from ""selling products at unreasonably low prices, having the effect or tendency of substantially lessening competition or eliminating a competitor, or designed to have that effect"". The Australian Democrats have been advocating amending the Trade Practices Act for quite a while now and are delighted that Labor sees the virtue of this policy position ... "

From Maple Street Co-op News,
February/March 2004
"We Won't Shop There - or There!"
by Lori Sturtz


and there's LOTS, LOTS more ...


Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:52 PM

dianavan, you have no idea what it is like to be an American.

Monogomous relationships?

Grow up, please.

Better yet, take a shave.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 04 May 04 - 10:02 PM

I'm not a huge fan of Wal-Mart, but...

Wal-Mart isn't a monopoly. There are plenty of other choices besides. Wal-Mart, as obnoxious as it may be, is some people's idea of the American dream: local store turned worldwide company. Not saying I necessarily agree with that, but here in the Land of Opportunity, you too have the opportunity to grow a business.

Then when you grow it and become wealthy, people will kick you in the ass and talk about what a parasite you are. Nice, huh? If you don't believe me, ask Ted Turner or Bill Gates.

Wal-Mart has stuff that people need and want at prices most people can afford. If people didn't actually shop there, they wouldn't be so huge. Don't blame them - blame the market. If you don't want to shop there, don't shop there. And yes, you do have a choice. Depending on where you live, it may be an inconvenient choice, but it's a choice all the same.

Martin, while Nashville's reputation as Music City is vastly overrated, it's a pretty fair place.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 10:09 PM

Kim C.

Your last post was a fresh air voice of reason that I truly appreciate.

You are a gem.
Please post more often!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:25 AM

But Martin, I am an American. I am also Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:34 AM

...and Martin, I did shave both my legs and underarms. I usually do that in the Spring. I'm pretty much of a hairless wonder. Do you like me better now?

Did I forget to tell you that the shaving fashion was started by Eva Braun, Hitler's girlfriend? Seems he thought that the dark-haired, furry ones were not as evolved as the blonde, somewhat, hairless types. He liked Eva when she was silky smooth. Oddly enough, it is one of the vestiges that remain of the Nazi culture. That in itself, is enough to make most women stop shaving altogether.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 05 May 04 - 05:06 AM

At a recent meeting of the concerned citizens of Maleny, regarding the invasion of Woolworths' conglomerate, a lone voice took the microphone to expose the benefits of Woolworths coming to town.
He spoke; We listened; Quietly and attentively, allowing the freedom and the right-to-speech that our fathers and grandfathers had fought for in two World Wars.
Later last week, it all became clear.
Woolworths have signed a deal with a major petrol company (Caltex) to supply discount fuel for Woolworths customers and - wouldn't you know it? - turns out that "lone voice" owns the Caltex petrol station in town!!
(Why am I not surprised ...)

Now Martin Gibson posted on 25 April :
"True, I am also a marketing professional for a large corporation ..."
: COULD it be, that the "large corporation" he alludes to, is Wal-Mart???!!!


Cheers!
Poor Misery (Rich-Joy's partner!)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 02:24 PM

Martin - Since you are the marketing genius. Maybe you can tell us exactly who WalMart's target audience might be. Maybe then we can begin to understand the American consumer more accurately. This, of course, will help us to predict who will win the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 03:17 PM

I meant to say target market.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 05 May 04 - 03:44 PM

I'm no marketing genius, but I'll take a stab. Considering that I've seen all types of cars from beat-up hoopties to brand new Escalades in the Wal-Mart parking lot, I'm going to guess their target market is anyone who wants to buy all their stuff in one place and spend less money on it. That's pretty broad. I see all kinds of people when I go there, including people who could easily afford to shop somewhere else but choose not to. And believe me, in the Nashville/Franklin/Brentwood/Murfreesboro quadrangle, there is absolutely no shortage of places to shop. (At one time, Murfreesboro, TN had the largest Wal-Mart Superstore in the country. That's probably changed since then.)

Diana, I am given to understand that the shaving fashion began in the 1920s with the flapper girls, since they were pretty much the first women to show their bare legs and arms (and armpits) in public. I could be wrong about that.

As far as the election is concerned, I imagine the undecided could go either way.

(Thanks Martin.) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 May 04 - 05:04 PM

dianavan, I do not work for Wal-Mart. I do not work in the retail industry, but I do work in a large American NYSE corporation for 20 years which is good to it's employees and pays me a nice living. I just happily shop there to save money.

Kim C. is absolutely right in her post above on who shops there. You might find that your wages just might go farther if you considered spending your money in a wiser fashion and get off of your high horse.

And Kim C. is right about the flapper girls also, who were the first real independent women in the 1920s. Their groundbreaking skirt length and American zeal for being sanitarily appealing and sleek predated that Nazi bitch. I think your Eva Braun/Hitler reference just smacked of anti-semitic undertones.

I don't hold it against you that you are Candaian, as my friend Brucie is also and he is a fine guy. Whether you were American or canadian, you still come across as a wench.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 06:53 PM

My comment was not anti-semitic it was anti-Martinic. Do you always take comments out of context? Read the last line of that post for further clarification.

You have called me and many others a variety of names but somehow you seem to be able to justify that. Whats the difference if I decide to call you a name or label you based on your system of beliefs? I refrain from doing that, Martin, because you will just hide behind your religion and point at me and cry foul. Poor baby!

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Be careful Martin, in the future you may be the object of some pretty nasty name-calling yourself. Maybe thats why you feel so smug when you are able to do that on the internet. Would you dare to be so vile in person? I doubt it. You might think it but you are too much of a coward to ever let anyone know your opinions, face to face. The reason your capacity to care about others is so limited is that you are so needy yourself. Your mother must have been a real nightmare. If you were a child, I would have some pity but since you are just another greedy, self-serving, adult, I only despise you.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 May 04 - 08:37 PM

Sorry Martin--believe it or not, they have things at Target that they don't have at Walmart--You can insist all you want, but you'll still be wrong. Better clothes, for one thing.

DougR--read my posts above--I hate Walmart because the stores are dirty, the lines are long, and they don't treat their employees very well--Don't shop there because there are other places that have merchandise that is more to my taste--I like big stores, and have been known to spend time in Outlet Malls--

In the interest of full disclosure,, I once worked in the advertising department of Macy's,San Francisco--as far as Dayton-Hudson goes, I also worked in the marketing department for a very large specialty retailer(now defunct), where my boss was a marketing exec from Daytons--Of the twenty odd folks in our office, about half were musicians--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,alexivirleo
Date: 05 May 04 - 10:05 PM

I've been trying so hard to feel compassion for Martin, I personally think he is a bit of a lost soul behind that sarcastic facade (flugelhorn - oh wow!) but; unfortunately, I must now allow my own reactive name-calling child loose! Down here in Orstraylia, we have a kind of all-purpose term, "wanker". It fits Martin admirably!

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 06 May 04 - 12:36 AM

Sadly, AlexiVirleo, I must agree.

Martin posts :
" ... the flapper girls also, who were the first real independent women ..."
Wow! SUCH an interesting "knowledge" of history he has ...

and

"Their ... American zeal for being sanitarily appealing and sleek .."
Well, I don't even want to open that can of worms!! (hopefully, Martin's analyst is already working on it ...)

and

" .. anti-semitic undertones ..."
- in Dianavan's post????????

Yes, AlexiVirleo, you're absolutely right - a real Richard Cranium ...


I didn't start this thread to get bogged down in reactive name-calling, but that's what Martin's big corporations do, isn't it? : Lead us up the garden path, into the mire, so that we lose our way until it's too late to be able to stop them from drowning us. Trouble is, some of us continually refuse to see the patterns ...


(sad)Cheers!
R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 04 - 01:14 AM

Martin generally is being deliberately cranky, with the intent of being amusing---except for the anti-semitism part--he is serious about that--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:08 PM

Of course Target has some things Wal-Mart doesn't have, and vice-versa. Just like Publix has some things Kroger doesn't have, and so on and so on and so on. Once when I bemoaned the fact that I couldn't get 100% of my grocery list in one store, Mister reminded me about something called Competition. If all the stores had Absolutely Everything in One Place, they wouldn't need to compete with one another, which means they wouldn't have to keep their prices at a decent level.

As it stands, Mister and I will spend an average of $70 on a week's worth of groceries no matter where we shop. Believe it or not, the Wal-Marts in our area have a much better produce selection than most other grocery stores, and they have a few exotic fruits that are hard to find at other places. Wal-Mart also is the exclusive distributor of Rimmel cosmetics, at least around here. I happen to like Rimmel, so if I want something of theirs, guess where I have to go?

I have to say, though, that Mister says he feels like he's on an episode of The Simpsons everytime he steps into a Wal-Mart.

In a perfect world, we'd all be able to grow our own food and not have to patronize supermarkets so often. Sadly, it doesn't work that way anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 04 - 09:28 PM

Surprisingly, it often costs more to grow your own vegatables than it would to buy them. My dad, who is a compulsive gardener, pointed out that the vegatables in the supermarkets are at their cheapest just about the same time the garden veggies are harvested, so you are not saving the $2.39 per pound that the good tomatoes cost most of the year, you are saving the $.59 per pound that they cost the week yours are ready.

When you average out the cost of seeds and seedlings, fertilizer and pest treatments, the wire, the string, and the various things you need to keep the rabbits and woodchucks out, against what you actually used or gave away(no fair counting the stuff that rots on the vine, doesn't ripen before the frost, or is eaten by creatures), you pay about the same as you would if you ordered the food in a good quality restaurant--No problem, though, it is the home grown taste that we do it for, and the spiritual connection with ancient farmers--

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:11 PM

Martin Gibson--


Given your calm, measured approach to debate, I can't imagine why you don't sign your real name.


"I know for a fact all their (Walmart's) suppliers love them". --2 May 2004 12:30

Dead wrong. Your facts are as careful as your language. Love, spelled F-E-A R. All their suppliers fear them, since they are the 500-lb gorilla. This from that well-known leftist rag, the Wall St. Journal.


"The suppliers weren't forced to do this." 3 May 6:08

Wrong again-----if they want sizable contracts, Walmart is one of the few games in town, as a supplier knows, as they also know that if they don't, somebody else will, and the competitor's economies of scale will likely drive the first supplier out of business. That still does not stop the supplier that takes the Walmart contract from fearing Walmart's clout, especially since Walmart is likely to come back and demand yet more concessions to keep the contract. The suppliers realize their vulnerability.


For someone with such earthy (read needlessly foul) languge who claims to know something about the business world, you have an absurdly rosy view of Walmart's relations with its customers and suppliers. Costco, by the way ( as you may know, a competitor of Walmart), treats both its customers and its employees far better than Walmart--see earlier thread on Walmart where I posted comparisons from the Journal.


I love bluegrass, among many other kinds of music, and used to be in a band--scheduling rehearsals was a big problem. I'm sure you're a far better guitar player than I am. But I'd hate to try to discuss politics or anything else, with the possible exception of guitar technique, with you at a festival--fortunately festivals can be entirely focussed on music--and I'm a Republican (though for sure no Bushite).


I'm truly sorry the world has treated you so badly as to give you that huge chip on your shoulder, though I have to say I know people who are probably much worse off than you and not bitter in the least.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: sian, west wales
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:17 PM

For UK information, you might look at the New Economics Foundation website (www.neweconomics.org). There are some relevant articles on 'transforming markets' under the Economics tab. They did some good work on comparing the circulation of money within the local community on food at a supermarket and the same with a local 'veggie box' scheme. It used to be on the website; you might find it if you dig around a bit. Also Paul Allen at Centre for Alternative Technology (www.cat.org.uk) has done work on "Relocalization of the Food Chain"; I don't see the paper on the website but you could email him and I bet he'd send it to you. Similarly, Prof Kevin Morgan (http://www.cf.ac.uk/cplan/staff/morgan_k.html)has done a lot of food chain research and I have one of his papers on disc here somewhere. He, also, is quite good at sending stuff if you ask nicely.

I don't know how much good academic stuff would do you, however, as county councils tend to have anyone BUT the locals in mind and aren't reknown for listening to academic research. We're fighting Tesco's here in our west Wales town, but I reckon we'll lose. It's outside the town centre, intends to sell just about everything, will leave its town centre current site with an embargo on it against any other food retailer moving in (which could work counter to the county's own agri-food policies) and will be the biggest Tesco in Wales.

I think there is somewhere in Wales that kept a multi-national out, possibly Builth Wells. Other towns failed, however; like Cardigan and Brecon. Again, probably a lot to do with the local authority's attitude. And they are quite often just trying to do anything to meet the national government's targets for GDP growth, and hang the social costs. (Which takes one into the murky world of arguments for an indicator other than GDP in Economic Development) Also, Chief Executives make 'their name' on the size of developments they can attract to the area ... so they can move up the ladder to some bigger council and leave us with the long-term effects.

On a moderating note, however, it always pays not to make sweeping statements. For instance, Tesco is (as Super Market Chains go) the most open of those in UK to accepting local or regional produce and are also very good at paying the small producer within a reasonable billing period.

Of course, there's a whole other tangent we could follow (I think someone touched on it already). R-J, you talk about 'those of us' who move to rural areas to get away from urban rat race. Long-term rural residents aren't trying to 'get away' from it and may have different values. (and would probably be happy to spend more of their income on good food if their housing prices weren't so apalling, having been driven up by people selling up in the cities). There's been a lot of work done on this, as well; Bill Reimer's work at Concordia University in Montreal comes to mind.

sian
(who, until recently, worked in rural development)

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:53 AM

yes, Sian, there's more than an element of truth in your last paragraph!!!

Here in rural Australia, it's often the teens who are desperate for places like Shopping Centre developments, just to be able to "hang out" (I'm trying to recall where I used to go to do that - then I remembered that I wasn't ALLOWED to go out very often!!!!!!!!!!)

Also, people are moving Northwards to sunny Queensland, from the mega-cities of Sydney and Melbourne, where real estate prices are absolutely horrendous - this is in turn pushing our prices to ridiculous levels, unaffordable now for a large percentage of the Australian population. The gap between "rich" and "poor" is ever-widening. (probably the same in the UK and Nth America, I would think ...)

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:16 AM

On the Channel 7 6:30 Current Affaris slot tonight, was a short article about the guy in Maleny camping up in the Bunya Pine tree on the proposed SuperMarket site..

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:21 PM

Guest, Ron Davies you have proven that you know absolutely nothing about business.

Yes, fear is a part of business. But the suppliers sure love the info Wal-Mart gives them on demographics and the size and scope of their segment competition. They give them market share data that they crave. I would never buy at Cost-co. No interested in buying a jar of applesauce that will last a year.

The world hasn't treated me badly at all you cowering blegrass wannabe. Right away your type is quick to obtain a degree in psychoanalysis when someone easily out debates you and makes you look bad.

Your right, I probably am a better guitarist, have a better job, a better family and home than you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:17 PM

And now David up the tree has made it onto the ABC National Radio news.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: dianavan
Date: 13 May 04 - 12:11 AM

Marty is being juvenile again.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:48 PM

Marty is being juvenile again? Do you mean that he stopped at some point?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 04 - 11:25 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:05 PM

Sorry, everybody--our cat just posted to the thread.


First of all, "Martin", I will assume (though it may be a rash assumption), that despite your refusal to stand behind anything you ever say by giving your real name, and despite evidence on Mudcat of gigantic put-ons, that you really do exist; that utterances such as yours really can stem from the brain of a thinking individual. On the off-chance you do exist....


Your (sic) right. I am certainly impressed. You have so many strong points I can't count them all. Spelling and grammar are yet two more. I feel honored to share the same planet with you. Only your powers of logic are somewhat faulty (or perhaps nonexistent.) It's certainly too bad you can't afford an introductory subscription to the Wall St. Journal--sounds as if you could benefit if you could scrape the cash together. Of course the words sometimes are above two syllables--that might be a problem.

The Dry Branch Fire Squad has a great traditional bluegrass sound and a fantastic dry sense of humor. Ron Thomasson, lead singer (and an English teacher) once said in concert: "We believe in aggressive ignorance in bluegrass music" .   Mirabile dictu, (sorry Martin, that's Latin), there may be some people to whom that applies. I wonder if attitudes such as yours help explain why there seems to be friction between the bluegrass and old-timey communities--both being small minorities in music, you would think they would want to make common cause (how about that, I've made this a music thread).

Martin, I only hope you're as appreciated as I am in bluegrass and other circles. To ensure that you are, you might want to tone your approach down just a tad. Don't worry, I don't claim to be an expert guitarist--your fragile ego is safe with me. You may perhaps be unaware there are other instruments in bluegrass, and singing is even involved.

"Your (sic) right. I probably am a better guitarist, have a better job, a better family and home than you do" Or maybe not. Methinks he doth protest too much.

Re: psychoanalysis--Martin, psychoanalyzing you is no challenge, I asssure you. You might want to look in the mirror sometime.


Interestingly enough, you admit my point about fear. If you can't distinguish between fear and love, this says worlds about you ( and probably about other Bushites too). Suppliers may well appreciate Walmart's info on demographics etc. (though Walmart is hardly alone in providing this sort of detail--I daresay Costco does it too). This is hardly love. Martin, you'd best watch your terms and phrasing here--you're in the big leagues.

However, Martin, congratulations on keeping your usual gutter language out of your post. See, you can do it! (Hope you don't slip back into the gutter). Could this be a new trend?

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 May 04 - 05:56 PM

Martin's kids ask him, "Dad, if we're so well off, why do we buy all our clothes at Walmart?"

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: GUEST,Smith's Lover!
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:00 PM

I love Smth's Food And Dug Stores! That Company is like family you feel it when you walk threw the door, they make you fel at home and with resonable prices freindly service and great deli and food items Smith's is king in the food business. Life was saddend when they left southern california it was like losing a close friend. And now all we have is some empty structures and some stores that were taken over as memories of Smith's Food And Drug Center's, Not to mention the jobs thesuper centers provided, Southern California awaits and anticipates the return of the King in food-Smith's Food And Drug Center.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:15 PM

I am not familiar with that chain, as we don't have them here. But we do have Jewel food stores and Walgreen drug stores (they started here in Chicago).

Fine prices and selection at Jewel and going into a Walgreen's is just such a comfortable thing to do.

Interesting to see this thread revived by someone else who counters the complete bullshit of the one who started it.

Subject: RE: BS: Supermarkets destroying Communities
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 01:30 AM

Martin, be careful of labelling those who you do not know, in circumstances you do not know, of spouting bullshit. Some may think you are just looking in the mirror too much.

I have been in the town of Maleny (Australia) and the surrounding countryside over the past thirty odd years. Everything the nice lady has personally said about the local situation is true. I do agree with her comments about Australian Big Retail Business destroying small localities. I have seen it happen personally many times, including the local Fruit & Veg driven out of Business in local Shopping Centres (Malls for the US - in Aus malls are open spaces BETWEEN shops), by price undercutting and then prices being put up when the competition has closed. At the same time, farmers are being paid less and retail prices are rising - the retail margins rising as profits rise.

You (and the person who revived this thread) are in a different country, so your personal comments may have nothing to do with the local situation.

Still waiting for some intelligent (non-gibbering!) contributions from you to the "Writing Challenge Threads".

Robin