Info: Patriot Game

Subject: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:09 AM

This one's for my wife, and yes, we've checked out the threads in the Forum.

Here's the question:

When she was last in Colonial Williamsburg she ate at the King's Arms Tavern, where the entertainment was a minstrel. Supposedly, this chap was "the authority" on songs which might have been heard in Wburg around 1770, and one he sang was "The Patriot Game" changed summut to reflect the 18th Century.

Now, she's not a stranger to folk music and certainly not to "The Patriot Game." In fact, even I find that sometimes she's pretty sharp.

So here's her question: what gives? Was the minstrel wrong, even though he was supposed to be The Man on the subject? Or was there a version of "The Patriot Game" which dated back that far?

Sorry, but she doesn't remember the performer's name.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:14 AM

Rule 1. Don't trust minstrels' introductions
Rule 2. See rule 1

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:23 AM

I have to add that she did challenge the origins of the song at the time, and that's when she was told that the singer was The Authority. She'd always thought it dated from the mid to late 1950s and was written by D. Behan.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:36 AM

Sounds to me this "authority" needs to beome an authority....

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:52 AM

Tune traditional, words Dominic Behan, no more to be said.
eric

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 02:27 AM

As everybody knows, Bob Dylan wrote this in 1963 as 'With God On Our Side'. All claims that the tune predates this are clearly false. Why, it even crops up here as a traditional tune, sung by the Cambridge Singers, if you please...

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Flash Company
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:25 AM

Dominic Behan Wrote and performed this in his play of the same name.
He also recorded it on Topic Records, I think the collection was called'The Irish Rover', I know that was the first track on it.
Regret can't offer a firm date, but has to be the '60s.
Has anyone read Dominic's book 'Teems of Times & Happy Returns'?
I lent my copy to a guy at Nottingham University, never saw it again!

FC

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:31 AM

Yes, Flash Company,I lost my copy too and it was signed to me by Dominic. His last book, issued just before he died, is called Parable Jones and is a good read. He wrote The patriot Game in 1957 and my Topic EP is dated 1960.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:37 AM

Dominic Behan's song was about an IRA campaign in 1956. If the song Rapaire refers to had 18th c words, it must have been substantially different, not just "changed summut". Can someone find us the words as sung at Williamsburg?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:11 AM

Just guessing, but could it be that the chappie used a set of topical words from that period, which included the word "patriot", and stuck them to the tune Dominic Behan used for his song?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 09:36 AM

Well you know how it is with "authority", especially paid authority. Some years back I was asked to come up with songs about a particular place, for a project sommeone was working on. It was not paid, as such, but if I could provide the goods there'd be a "drink" in it (as Arthur Daley would say).

I can't recall the place involved but let's say for arguments sake it was Swanage.

Well there now appears to be songs called "Pretty Nancy of Swanage", Crusing Round Swanage" etc ;-)

I did admit at the time that I couldn't find anything appropriate, but those involved were happy with adaptations.

Trust no-one.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Bob Dylan
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:27 PM

I wrote the song when I was at sccool it must have been around 1950 - so there!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:52 PM

Oh the times they are a-changing- back again. "With God on our side" once again has become a cry of the "Religious Right."
See book by William Martin and six hour series produced in South Carolina for PBS.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:40 AM

Dominic's song was based on the true story of Feargal O'Hanlon.
eric

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 07:52 PM

Contribution by Liam Clancy, quoted by catspaw on thread 44455:

"'The Patriot Game' was written by Dominic Behan, but it was originally a song from the Appalachian Mountains ('The Merry Month Of May'). Then it became a popular song, slightly adapted by a popular singer of the day named Jo Stafford who called it the - What was it called? 'The Bold Grenadier,' or something.
And it was from that popular recording that Dominic Behan took the tune and he made it into 'The Patriot Game.' And of course we used to sing this with great passion at the folk clubs in the (Greenwich) Village. And among the patrons was a young singer/songwriter who came into town named Bob Dylan. And he transformed it, of course, into 'With God on Our Side.'" Actually Dominic Behan chided Dylan publicly for lifting Behan's melody until he was reminded that he himself had "borrowed" the tune. As for the phrase "God on our side," it might have come from Robert Southey ("The laws are with us and God's on our side") or from George Bernard Shaw's play Saint Joan."

Hope this helps ...

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: TS
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 08:00 PM

Program on the TV last night about the "Irish Music" coming to America. They interviewed Liam Clancy who said the words in the above tread. He sung portions of the song by which Behan obtained the music for Patriot Game and noted Dylan doing the same, years later...Slainte!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 09:09 PM

"...it was originally a song from ..."

Presumably, Susanne, you mean "was originally a tune from". Or rather, "the tune was previously used in a song from..."

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 10:58 PM

Susanne, are you referring to the Nightingale group? There are a steam dozen 'month of May.'
I think this went round in thread 56497, a year ago: Merry Month

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 12:06 PM

back in July 2001 there was a long thread on this topic called 'D.Behan,Dylan, Ives, and Jo Stafford?' I remember adding to it my story of how I first met Dominic Behan, and how I quizzed him about this song. A memorable meeting. Burl

Subject: Swanage
From: GUEST,ian fyvie
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 02:26 PM

Saw lyric notes about the song about the Swanage Railway.

This I believe was by the Yetties folk group.

However there was an earlier song about the Swanage Railway which I wrote (is it ethical for me to say this here?):

It was recorded (45prm single) by band: Cottage Industryin the 1980's ( on Rural Records based nr West Moors, Dorset) and the idea was to raise funds and create publicity for the railway preservation campaign - which it did qiute well.

Ian Fyvie

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

Ian, why should it be unethical to tell us you've written a song? Better still, give us the lyrics and story behind them. That's what the Mudcat and DT are for.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 10:28 PM

... and then some SOB put this song to that melody (or one very much like it)!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 01:00 PM

What's the problem in using a fine and known tune to carry new lyrics? Very good new lyrics by the way.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Janice way up North
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 01:38 PM

Oh, my name it is Janice, my age I won't say,
And the state that I come from is known as N.J.,
I learned the guitar there, and I learned how to sing,
And soon I became part of that great folkie thing!

I boarded a bus there and started to roam,
Across the broad Hudson, about a mile from home,
Then I rode on the subway, down to a park,
Called Washington Square, in the town of New York.

For nearly four hours each Sunday I'd strum,
While tourists from over the world they would come,
The guitars and banjoes, how loudly they'd ring,
With the resounding din of that great folkie thing!

But those grand days are over, they're over for good,
And there's narry a folkie in that old neighborhood,
So I poke a computer, while the curses I fling,
And mourn for the days of that great folkie thing.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 07:42 PM

The tune is One Morning In May. It's a variant.

One morning, one morning, one morning in May
I spied a fair couple a-making their way.
One was a maiden so young and so fair.
The other a soldier, a brave volunteer.

There are many versions of this song.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 09:10 PM

had a prob tonite singing 'God on our side' cos 'The Patriot Game' tune & words kept interspersing themselves in me head 7 interferin wid me brane!

don't tink anyone noticed tho'- only meself!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 07:10 PM

Good one, Janice. Are you the Janice who did Rubber Ducky at Getaway?? After I got home I was in the local supermarket with hubby. We walked by the babystuff aisle and there was a display of several sizes of the squeaky yellow toy ducks--my hubby thought I was having some kind of attack. I tried to explain it to him, but he finally sighed and said, "I guess I had to've been there." I nodded and kept wiping the tears off my cheeks. People were looking at me funny.....Tw

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:34 PM

Sorry, but it wasn't me. Are you sure it wasn't Evy Mayer? She's the Numero Uno Rubber Ducky Lady of the Great Northeast. Glad you liked my new words to Patriot Game.