BS: German elections & a simple man's dream

Subject: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 01:13 PM

You may have read of yesterday's elections in Germany (European parliament and several local elections) and that the Social Democrats got the worst result ever after the war. A disastrous result and nobody of them tried the usual 'it is not so bad seen in comparison to...' routine.

But even in the disaster there's always a ray of hope. In the small village of Bollschweil the Social Democrats did lose much less than in the rest of the country. This relative success has one name: Jens Ammoser got much more votes for himself than all others in his party in that little commune.

Jens Ammoser? Wasn't that the man who? Yes, the man who hit chancellor Schröder in the face some weeks ago did candidate for the Social Democrats there. Of course, he was thrown out of the party immediately after boxing the chancellor's ear (well, he only became a member to get the chance to come close to Schröder). But the lists for the elections could not be changed for legal reasons and so Ammoser was a candidate for the Social Democrats.

And he got many many personal votes. Could it be that many people share this man's dream and did vote for him even if runs for the wrong party from their point of view? And think of what in other countries may happen if they read about this original route to electorial success: "Vote for John Simon, your local Labour candidate, the man who spit Tony Blair in the face."

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 02:03 PM

I'm sorry I don't know more about the political situation in Germany (I've been caught up in the mess here at home), but I have one general observation:   in modern times, politicians seem to spit in each others' faces figuratively as a matter of course. I guess it's a short step from that to doing it literally.

Rational debate about real issues, which should be the focus of politicians prior to elections, seems to remain outside the realm of politics. It's a strange world we live in.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: DougR
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 02:12 PM

Wolfgang: I'm terribly ignorant of German politics myself. How do these elections affect Schroeder?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: mack/misophist
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 02:21 PM

This is what happens when the people begin to feel as if they have no voice.

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 03:57 PM

I only had the funny side in mind when posting, but since you want to know: How do these elections affect Schroeder?

Formally, not at all (yet, but see below). The red/green majority in the parliament is the same as it was the day before.

However, the Social Democrats never really liked him, they liked his ability to win the votes. With that ability gone they'll think of ways how to dump him before, or at the very least, after the next elections.

But beside that, the results are a real threat for the Red/Green majority for this complicated reason:

The German Lands form a kind of second chamber to the main parliament. They can block decisions that directly affect them with majority vote (3 to 5 votes per land, depending on inhabitants). These are the minority of all laws. All the other laws they can block them by majority vote only for a short time, for the main parliament can overrule that blocking by a vote with absolute majority (Red/Green still holds absolute majority). However, the lands (second chamber) can block any law with a two third majority. It has never happened yet that the majority in the Bundestag had a two third majority of the parliamentary opposition against them in the second chamber (Bundesrat).

But since the last federal elections Red/Green has lost many elections in the lands and the conservative opposition is approaching 2/3 majority in the second chamber. One of the elections yesterday had the best chances for Red/Green to break the conservative majority in one German land (Thüringen). They failed. That doesn't change the majority in the Bundesrat yet. But the next big land falling to the Christian Democrats will give them now the 2/3 majority in the second chamber. They'll be able to block every move of the government then. That'll be in spring 1905, when Northrhine-Westphalia falls to the present opposition in that land. If that happens quick new elections are unavoidable.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: MudGuard
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 04:22 PM

That'll be in spring 1905,

Wolfgang, I think you are a tiny little bit behind...

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: DougR
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 06:33 PM

Thanks for the info, Wolfgang. I take it you back Schroeder's party, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 07:20 PM

Much as I back Blair's party, Wolfgang? That is, preferably without its leader?

Your assessment of Shröder precisely encapsulates Blair of course:
However, the Social Democrats never really liked him, they liked his ability to win the votes. With that ability gone they'll think of ways how to dump him before, or at the very least, after the next elections.

That Ammoser saga is priceless!

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 06:15 AM

For the Federal Republic the European votes are not more than a political barometer at the moment.
After counting the votes I talked to some fellow heads of our local poll stations, and in more than one station the Greens won over the Social Democrats. In Frankfurt the Greens even got 25% of the votes and own the second place now!
I think the voters don't trust the Schröder party any more; Conservatives and Greens hold well known political opinions (not always opposed), but the Social Democrats seem to fight only for power at the moment. That's why they got their worst outcome since 1953.
Mr. Ammoser's story seems funny, but the future will show his qualifications.

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 07:40 AM

Actually I did back the Greens this time and the last time, but generally I'm oscillating between Reds and Greens.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: German elections & a simple man's dream
From: DougR
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 01:47 PM

Comments I heard on the Fox News Network yesterday leaned toward the position that the vote was a real bummer for the EU and Tony Blair. Do you agree?

DougR