Folklore: Braveheart...again

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 05:22 PM

The basic history in Braveheart is correct. Wallace rose up against the English invaders, his wife was murdered by the English sheriff, he beat the English at the battke of Stirling Bridge, he refused the Scottish crown and was eventually executed horribly by the English on a charge of treason which was obviously incorrect .. he was not an English subject. His 'screwing' of the wife of the homosexual King Edward the second of England and his meeting with Bruce were, I reckon, flung in for dramatic and humerous effect ... image that Wallace could have fathered the future English monarch?!! The story was basically correct and only upsets those who do not like England portrayed that way. But remember it was more that 7 hundred years ago and, as suggested in an earlier posting, it was an admirable piece of entertainment.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM

Amerigin...

Name me a Hollywood movie that WAS 'historically accurate'....

AND entertaining...

Pretty short list eh?

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to the movies for a history lesson... I go to be entertained....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 10:30 PM

gladiator and rob roy were also very very grossly inaccurate....i didn't much care for either of them...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: GUEST,V
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 12:49 PM

Hit the wrong buutton. Clinton Wallace was his surname William was his first name. Try to stay awake at the cinema - hard to do with this sort of trash I'll admit;-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 12:40 PM

I wouldn't even say that...

Gladiator, and Rob Roy singularily were twice the movie Brave-fart even tried to be...

And Flesh & Blood beats all three of them together!

:-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 08:48 AM

Let's just say Braveheart was a great movie, but very bad history!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 05:50 AM

Yes, something interesting about the taking of Bruce's heart to Holy Land to be buried there is that the Scottish party set off and sailed following the coast. By the time they came near Southern Spain and saw the Moors (still there until 1492), the palm trees and the unbearable heat, they came to the conclusion they'd already arrived in Holy Land. Of course, the presence of Spanish Christian knights attacking the Moorish cities must have helped to complete the picture.
Finally, they joined the Christian army and, in one of the raids, the small chest containing the heart was lost. A nobler version is included in the 'Lays of the Scottish Knights'.

I think that Braveheart is a nice combination of history, fiction, oral tradition (Murron's death is based on a traditional ballad) and the success that follows every piece of art where 'a group of poor ragged but brave men opposes and beats the best army in the world'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: jack halyard
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 04:31 PM

On another tack, the term "Brave heart" had nothing to do with Wallace.
According to legend, James Douglas "The Black Douglas" went on a crusade after the Bruce's death, with Bruce's heart in a casket.
Bruce had asked that his heart be taken on the crusade, since by his death, he could not go.
In the heat of a particularly savage engagement, Douglas is said to have cried "Lead, brave heart, and Douglas will follow." and threw the casket into the midst of the fray, carving his way after it. The tale has it that these were the circumstances of James Douglas's death.

This does not demean the immense heroism and leadership of the Wallace and his meaning to the Scots, it's just a reminder that-as was said previously by Lady Jean, any resemblance between "Braveheart and history was purely coincidental."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 12:25 PM

My mother was a Wallace, and she used to shout

"Eric, your dinner is ready".

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: LadyJean
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 12:38 AM

Any remseblance between "Braveheart" and history was purely coincidental.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: erinmaidin
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 09:13 AM

I'm wondering (having only seen the movie once long ago)...the attack made on the garrison was for revenge for the killing of Wallace's beloved. Often used as an endearing term after particularly fine renditions of songs sung by women (usually from the men this comes) is...something that sounds like "maith cailin" which...if it is actually "maith" and not "mo" ...means "good girl"..and is a term offered quite respectfully.
Is there a connection of some sort here?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 03:42 PM

i think maccullough was the father in law...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 12:52 PM

Thanks you very much, friends. Some time someone suggested the Scots would shout their chieftain's name after a victory, so MacAuley could very well be some sort of MAc-Walli(s) or even MacCollough. It was this 'revenge' in the subtitles that had puzzled me.
Of course, Hollywood follows that principle: 'you can rape History but only to beget a child'.
Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 09:49 AM

Don't look for accuracy from Hollywood...

I thought MacCollough was the old guys last name...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: AKS
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 03:00 AM

I think that 'Wallace' is someone whose son would be called 'MacAulish / MacWallace' - or ???

AKS

Subject: Folklore: Braveheart...again
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 04:30 PM

Greetings to all.
My question is: what do the triumphant Scottish clan boys shout after they overthrew the English garrison in that sort of wooden fort? The old man, Wallace's best friends's father, he starts shouting something like 'MacAuley' or at least it sounds like that. In the Spanish subtitles, it says 'venganza' (revenge), but my English goes as far as to know that MacAuley or whatever it is doesn´t mean that (unless it is Gaelic, in which case I must remain silent).
Any William Wallace's fan can ellucidate, please? No, Mel, thanks, I'd rather another one answered, if you don't mind.
Thanks a lot.

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Also see Gude Wallace