BS: America WAS a Christian Nation

Subject: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:11 AM

America WAS a Christian Nation!


Today, we are asking God to bless America. But, how can He bless a Nation that has departed so far from Him? Prior to September 11, He was not welcome in America. Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots.   Because the Muslim faith is so sensitive to the fact that the United States was founded on Christian principles and the politically correct left are doing everything that they can to force Christians underground, I suggest that the following bears repeating.

Since the middle 1960's, the United States has embraced almost every concept imaginable that has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles. The U.S. has embraced the occult, middle eastern religions, far eastern religions and have made up some of our own. We have decided that it is appropriate to kill our unborn children and that the family structure is whatever each individual decides that it should be.

We have forgotten the words of the U.S. Constitution and have chosen to make up our own rules in spite of the vision of our founding fathers. I think that it is appropriate every now and then to revisit our founders and appreciate the sacrifices that they made for us. Then, we need to ask ourselves, what are we willing to do to continue the freedoms that they gave everything to secure for us?

You are encouraged to make copies, and share with others, so that the truth of our nation's history will be told.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: jimmyt
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:26 AM

You know Chuck, the comcept that this nation was founded as a theocracy is not very accurate. Many of our founding fathers were fine men, who did not espouse the kind of "Christianity" you are referring to. There are lots of wonderful, ethical kind people in this world who are not Christians. I happen to ba a Christian, but this mentality I find offensive, and I feel that many non Christians would be also.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: DonMeixner
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:35 AM

Thanks Chuck.

I have re-read the Preamble of the constitution, The 10 amendments, and a few other interesting bits recently. I have read the biographies of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, amd Jsames Madison. I rently a book called The Miracle in Philadelphia.

The end result seems to be a suggestion that the people of nation behave in a Christian manner. No where can I find a line that defines a church or a specific definition of a means of faith beyond that simple admonistion.

The idea of tolerance and forgiveness, both very Christian values, seem to have been lost in the practice of most Christian by Proclmation people abroad in the country of late.

Now, are you the same Chuck Hemrick who is a comic book author and artist from the Hudson River valley?

Don

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:38 AM

Chuck Hemrick,

Good to see you back!

Whatever you have to say is worth hearing.

If you re-join as a member, you will take some lumps from closed minds, but that is part of life. You know that aleady.

By my bedside I always have two books, The Bible and the U.S. Constitution.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:42 AM

pdq:

Which Bible?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:43 AM

why, I thought the leaders of our nation were avowed, dedicated, sincere Christians....just ask 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 11:46 AM

BillD,

The definition of a Christian is "one who believes, professes to believe, or is thought to believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ" ( I think that is from Webster's 3rd).

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 12:08 PM

beardedbruce,

Since you asked, my Bible is "revised standard".

My copy of the U.S. Constitution is "pre-Janet Reno".

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM

Its interesting that any one of those definitions can apply without implying the other two.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 12:18 PM

"what are we willing to do to continue the freedoms that they gave everything to secure for us?

Keep church and state separate, as you well know. It's this narrow vision of the world through a fundamentalist christian lens that separation of church and state is all about. And amazingly, it was the Baptists who fought the hardest to make sure church and state stayed separate--because they were afraid that otherwise the Puritans would legislate them out of existence.

I learned that from a friend who is a local Southern Baptist minister. Interesting guy. Who'd have thought we'd see eye-to-eye on anything?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 01:03 PM

What is so great about the US Constitution is that it protects those who do NOT believe that Jesus is/was a messiah, and likewise any who do not accept religion at all.

But I do agree with your thesis about Islam taking over in the US; however, not because people are falling away from Christianity but, far more worrying for the 'established' culture, through the vast and increasing number of polygamous families. While Isalm embraces and accepts that sort of thing the Christian way outlaws it.

It is only a matter of time until Allah takes over from Jesus.

I also think our constant harping and working to protect the rights of the individual while IGNORING the other side of the coin - responsibilities - is the main source of the evil that polygamity brings. I do not think I should begin to discuss the political/economic consequences as these are already eating away at what we take for normal

I also think a critical a reading history and Bible essential to anybody who thinks there is something out/up/there etc...would help a great deal. Chuck read it again - but this time think NOT like today and really much different to anything YOU COULD imagine.

Bad enough to have a money lender in my street, but his cousin's ancestor thumped into my head telling me to turn the other pocket?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 02:46 PM

Has anyone mentioned to Hemrick that Christ wasn't American?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: MaineDog
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:01 PM

Does anyone seriously think that Allah will "take over" from Jesus?

Christians can get to Heaven by faith alone ( I wish more of them had that much faith )

Muslims can only be sure of getting there if they die in a jihad while taking out infidels (Americans or other enemies) otherwise, you never know whether you have done enough "good works" until it is too late --

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:06 PM

. . . or that America was originally the home of indigenous peoples who had religions of their own when Europeans first arrived?

Canada has a multi-cultural society, and we seem to be doing OK accepting each other. I am Christian by definition--hell, I'm Catholic--but that deosn't give me a corner on the God market. Seems more and more that self-proclaimed Christians figue they really know about God, and everyone had better, too. So, while I appreciate your post Mr Hemrick, I don't see what it has to do with the Constitution. The functional clause was ". . .one nation under God . . .", not one nation under Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:12 PM

America, assuming that the United States is meant by this rather than one or more of the dozens of other nations that comprise the American continents, is still a Christian nation. Most of the citizens and other inhabitants espouse some form or another of the Christian religion or, if they do not do so formally, share the same basic Christian values of their countrymen.   As GUEST,chuck hemrick so correctly says, "since the middle 1960's, the United States has embraced almost every concept imaginable that has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles." Among these concepts is that of the religious fundementalists who teach that there is only one "true way," even if their version of Christianity has nothing in common with that of the Christians of early Rome, the teachings of St. Augustine, or the beliefs of our Founding Fathers.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:13 PM

RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation

"The functional clause was ". . .one nation under God . . .", not one nation under Jesus."

. . . so, while we're mentioning revisionist history, . . .

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:24 PM

The further anyone gets from "Ghad" or "Xtianity" the more respect I have for them...

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:25 PM

It's the political correctness that gets me down on a such a subject as this...

Religion is a massive cause for wars in the world, I am technically a christian but I wish religion didn't exist, it causes difference which makes people feel they are the righteous. Look at 'jihads' (holy wars) and Israel. Such a mad world.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM

I am not a Christian.

Occasionally I encounter this smarmy, condescending, paternalistic, authoritarian dogmatism frpm self-styled Christians who are so unsure of their own natures that they let themselves get wound up about their fellow humans, and become preachers of intolerance, hatred, obsessive controlling resentment, anger and underhanded hateful control mechanisms.

I find these things, and these moods, and these people, temporarily, to be obsessive, neurotic, unstable, aberrated, and a poor example of human compassion, as well, often as being exceeding ignorant and dull of wit.

That's just my two cents' worth, though.

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:31 PM

The sooner this globe bans all religions and flags (until we're mature enough to deal with them), the better for all.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:31 PM

Amos...you are not a Christian, you are an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM

Matthew 24:

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
signs 2nd Thess 2:9, Rev 13:13

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:29 PM

How bloody christian of YOU, pdq!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bert
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:30 PM

Well said Amos. And a lot more politely than I would have put it.

I learned a hell of a lot more about tolerance and love of one's neighbor, from a year living in an Arab village than I did from many years of "Christian" schooling.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:34 PM

PDQ:

I refuse to stand up for the kind of bitchy intolerance the starter of this thread is promoting. If that makes me an asshole in your bnook, so be it -- I doubt it will sell many copies, though.

I think hateful and arrogant exclusionism such as promoted by Mister Humchuck upthread is unChristian in the extreme. I'm sorrry if you disagree with me.

Do you think Mister Bush is a Christian as well, then? On a Crusade, is he?

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:51 PM

Amos...your statement of 03:28 PM is beneath contempt. I have never met a Christian who matches the model you have constructed.

I will back off and say "the post of 03:28 PM is the type of statement that usually comes from an asshole".

Chuck Hemrick made many positive post as Tar_heel. His family band is truly folk music, the reason that Mudcat was started. If there is no room for non-PC variance on Mudcat, it is not Mr. Hemrick's fault, it is the fault of a small band of PC Brown Shirts.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: kendall
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:52 PM

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:56 PM

Anyone here is free to try to convert others to his/her religious or political belief- Just remember that that means that the person trying to convert others is fair game to the efforts and comments of others. Only fair...

Are you an armed nudest, like the Bible tells you to be?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: kendall
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:57 PM

Were the Pilgrims who hanged the Quakers Christians? Is George W. Bush a Christian? He has signed more death warrants than any governor in history.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 04:59 PM

Luke 22


35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:00 PM

PDQ:

I was describing people I have met. If you have not, well, perhaps I've just been unlucky?
ANyway, sorry I offended you -- I am assuming you don't think the shoe fits, anyway.

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM

And let him that is without sin cast the first stone.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:05 PM

ah, but those who are born again are without sin- and can throw all the stones they want...

"If Christ died for my sins, he over-reacted."

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:22 PM

BB,

That is the funniest line I have ever heard from you!! Thanks!

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:31 PM

As that great philosopher Peter Green once said, "Please don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answers that you want me to".

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:43 PM

pdq:

Have you sold your clothes and bought a sword?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:02 PM

beardedbruce,

No, and if that is what the Bible demands, it will be a difficult decision.

First point, it gets a bit cold here in the winter. Also, as another great philosopher once said, "I just don't look good naked anymore".

Second point, a 38 caliber or a 44 is a proper arm, at least out here in the West.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:03 PM

Ah, but the (red-letter in my Bible) words of JC specify a sword...

And what does your physical comfort have to do with fulfilling your religious obligations?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:06 PM

Or are you saying you get to pick and choose which of His words you want to follow?



And yes, I have a sword... Got one before I was ordained, so I still have my clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM

This thread appears to be a lot of trollishness. The original poster knows nothing about American history and less about the Constitution. He is a trolling proseletyser for HIS brand of christianity

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:11 PM

And I shall convert him to the rightous path of armed nudism.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM

It's a calculated risk, bb.

As long a death bed conversions are OK, I am going to wait until the last minute!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:20 PM

so, why then should ANY of us follow any of the rules of the Bible?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:21 PM

This is your soul that you place at risk. What if you are hit by a truck?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:24 PM

How can you ask for anyone to base their behaviour upon the Bible if you are not willing to, yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:27 PM

And, in case anyone was wondering, our founding fathers did have swords....

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 06:47 PM

I'd suggest sussing out truths rather than rules...they tend to retain their relevance a bit longer!

Our founding fathers did have swords, it is true...but I believe they also wore clothes.

Unless I have been badly misguided, which   is perfectly possible.

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 07:37 PM

Kendall doesn't need a sword. He is armed with a rapire wit.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: kendall
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

Oh but I also have a Claymore for the folks who are not thinking!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 08:09 PM

And Claymore has a rapire for those who are!