BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'

Subject: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Sooz
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:58 AM

I've been musing about this saying since the grated cheese thread. The other day I had some cheesy pastry leftover so I made a turnover from it containing normally sweetened Bramley apple. It was absolutely scrummy. Didn't know whether to serve it with pickle or cream though!

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM

I love eating apples with mild cheddar cheese as bought so can imagine the turnover would be delicious..but you didn't offer me any when I came to your house did you!!!!! ROFLOL. Only joking Sooz.
I also like eating cheese and jam sandwiches.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Sooz
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM

I made it after you had gone!

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:17 PM

I too like to plan things carefully ROFLOL.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:35 PM

We don't have Bramleys but our apple tree is getting close to picking time and we plan on a batch of apple pies for freezing. Maybe we will make a couple with a cheesy pastry - it sounds worth a try.

Drifting onto the freezer. We have 2, one a combination unit with a fridge on top. Last year, the other which was a small upright one developed an earth fault so we replaced it and bought something twice the size to make some more room for the stuff Pip grows (and makes, last thing to go in was pesto from our basil). It's already getting quite full!

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:20 PM

Wife (from Yorkshire) eats cheese with Christmas cake

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:52 PM

Scrummy? Is that good or bad?

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Bert
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

Sooz you are absolutely ROTTEN *GRIN*
We can't buy Bramley apples over this side of the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: nutty
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:50 PM

Traditionally it's Wensleydale Cheese and Christmas cake or fruit cake of any kind.

Also in Yorkshire, teacake (toasted or just buttered) and cheese is a great favourite.

I often enjoy a snack of apple, cheese and rye crispbreads.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 06:10 PM

An apple pie without some cheese
Is like a kiss without a squeeze.

OK, so where's the phrase from? I Googled, and found that this is either an ancient proverb, or an old Lincolnshire saying, or something like that. I always thought it was an advertising slogan made up by Marie Callender, the famous California pie magnate. So, where's it from?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 06:29 PM

The Cheese Marketing Board?

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:53 AM

Joe, I know it as an old Lincolnshire saying. A very old friend of mine always used to claim his kiss and squeeze when I gave him an apple pie made with the Bramleys from my garden. (He provided his own cheese!) He was a mine of information about old Lincolnshire Folklore, unfortunately he died bfore I accumulated enough for a book. I did manage to write a song about him though.

Sixteen miles for every acre.

(Mike and I met Charlie Coupland when we moved to Corringham in 1987. He was eighty years old and an absolute fund of stories, particularly from his days as a reluctant farm worker in villages between Thimbleby where he was born, and Gainsborough (where he died in 1989). He was a lovely man, and it was a joy to know him, if only for the last two years of his life. He had worked with horses in his early days, and remembered exactly how far he had to walk to plough each acre.)

Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.

When Charlie's school days ended in nineteen twenty one,
He went to work upon the land for choices there were none.
He ploughed the fields with horses, it was the job he had to do.
Sixteen miles for every acre watching over hoof and shoe.

Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.

He made a little table and bought a little chair,
A tied cottage from the maister in the village by the square.
He married Ethel Turner back in nineteen twenty five
And he ploughed the fields with horses just to keep them both alive.

Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.

Charlie hated every minute of his job upon the land,
But he stuck it out for fifty years, to every task he turned his hand.
He liked every new development that made his toil less hard.
No more ploughing fields with horses, tractors in the stable yard.

Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.

When his working days were ended, Charlie's garden was his pride,
To win prizes in the village show, his reputation wide.
A plate of matching beetroot or shiny apples green,
But no more ploughing fields with horses in this pleasant rural scene

Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.
Sixteen miles for every acre following the horse,
Now the tractor wheels are turning on their unrelenting course.
Round and round, round and round, round and round.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:01 AM

And a fine song it is too, Sooz. Look out World, here it comes on the CD 'Threads' by Stitherum (our very own Sooz and Mr. Sooz).

But back to the thread theme - I prefer a mature cheddar with some good Lincolnshire Plum Loaf. Aaaarrrggghhrrrrrmmmmmmppppppphhhh!!

JB :0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:14 AM

was curious about 'Bramleys' so googled:

   Bramley's superior taste qualities and tangy, 'appley' cooking properties have helped to ensure its popularity with cooks of all ages and abilities since it was discovered in the 1850's in a Nottinghamshire garden. The original tree - planted in 1809 from seed - still bears fruit today.

Hey Bert! How does it compare to a greening or a Granny smith?

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Sooz
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:39 PM

A Bramley is a cooking apple, large, hard and tart which breaks down when cooked, to a smooth puree. A Granny Smith will not do that - don't know about a greening.
The original Bramley was found in Southwell between Nottingham and Newark. The Bramley Apple pub is in the vicinity.

Remember the diet SJ.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM

MMario, a Bramley is a superb cooker. I surprised you don't have them.

I haven't a clue what our tree with that is laden with apples is but they are eaters and we know from past experience are not keepers. If we were to go out and buy apples to make a pie, the odds are we would choose Bramley but our situation will be to try to make as good use we can out of what's sort of grown here for free.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:40 PM

www.dairymax.com/CheeseForDessert.htm

Joe,

Check out the above site.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:45 PM

Check this out, too.

www.angelfire.com/tx5/texas1/pies.html

Nice thought, but it absolutely treats The Wabash Cannonball--well, you decide.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:08 PM

Check out "What a Friend We Have in Cheeses" in the DT.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:27 PM

My Dad was from Derbyshire and liked white Cheshire cheese with Christmas cake.

Bramleys will keep, and become milder and sweet enough to eat 'raw' if kept long enough, and carefully enough. Here on the South coast of England they do not keep well as it is too warm, so I make my cake as soon as I see them in the shops.

I put Bramley apple puree into my Christmas cakes. I use an old recipe and it needs to be kept for a couple of months to mature - moistening the mixture with milk is not a good idea but the juices from the apple make a good job of it. There is the rum poured on after cooking, and the preparation of the fruit involves vermouth - it used to be sherry but I don't have the stuff in the house. It usually takes three days to make, from the weighing of the dried fruit to taking it out of the oven, and then another day for it to cool, be stripped of the greaseproof paper and then re wrapped and put into a tin until needed. It is not iced but decorated with whole almonds and glace cherries.

The original recipe was huge - but it used to be made as the Christmas cake in a round tin and another cake baked in a loaf tin which was opened up at the beginning of December as a taster.

It is the best 'dark' cake I have ever tasted.

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Bert
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 12:26 AM

I've not heard of a greening MMario, it sounds like a Stephen King novel to me. But a Bramley is WAY better in taste than a Granny Smith.

We had a Bramley tree in our Garden when I was in England and the apple also makes a great eating apple if you let it ripen on the tree. I used to take one to work for lunch every day. We used to store them up in the loft until the yellow necked mice found them. Scared us a bit 'cos we thought they were rats at first.

The sad thing is that the apple is too big to fit the European Community standards so they ripped up a load of the Bramley orchards in England.

So Soozmeluv stop bragging about your own bloody tree and send me some pips so I can grow my own. I'll take a chance that they will grow true.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: s&r
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 03:52 AM

I don't think you can grow a variety from seed - it has to be a cutting (I could be wrong)

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Sooz
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 06:26 AM

Bert - pm me your snail mail and I'll send you the pips from some fully ripe apples.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 07:30 AM

GUEST Anne Croucher, check out this thread (click) on Christmas puddings and cakes- I'd love it if you posted your recipe!

No Bramleys here that I know of. The best baking apple around here is Northern Spy. It will be a few more weeks before they become available. We have one local orchard that specializes in hard-to-find varieties- everywhere else it's Macintosh all the way.

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 07:58 AM

I don't know either S&R but I'd have thought a Bramley woud grow from seed - worth a try anyway. As far as I know, there could be 2 issues. One is the seeds may not produce a true Bramley - that would need someone with knowledge of genetics to explain. The other may concern rootstock. I believe grafting is quite common.

One article I have found concerning these areas is here

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: MMario
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 08:48 AM

very very very few apples come true from seed.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Bert
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 05:24 PM

Thanks Sooz, I'll do that. You are right folks, they probably wont grow true but they will at least be 1/2 Bramley which is closer than anything you can get here.

I seem to recall a few years back that a woman grew a very good NEW apple from a Bramley seed.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 12:55 PM

The saying is from Vermont.

I learned this in the 70's from my sister at Middlebury:

Outside of the US, a Yankee is an American.'
In the US, a Yankee is from the North.
In the North, a Yankee is from New England.
In New England, a Yankee is from Vermont.
In Vermont, a Yankee is someone who doesn't like cheddar cheese on their apple pie, *because* apple pie without the cheese is like a kiss without the squeeze.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 05:45 PM

Rhode Islanders are sometimes called Swamp Yankees. I'm not sure of the origin of the term, but I think people in the neighboring states created it as a derogatory nickname for us. We have become proud of that designation, though, in much the way that colonials took to the song Yankee Doodle.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: maeve
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 05:53 PM

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/an_apple_pie_without_the_cheese_is_like_a_kiss_without_the_squeeze

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 06:01 PM

It's a Yorkshire saying where Wensleydale cheese is traditionally eaten with apple pie - usually a shallow pie baked on a plate. The apple of choice is usually a Bramley, which is a good keeper and turns to a puree when cooked. Wensleydale is the best cheese for eating with Apple pie or with a Ribston Pippin, the Yorkshire Apple. It's also eaten with Ganton cake, a fruit cake from the village if Ganton.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 09:01 PM

When I was growing up in Ohio in the 60s a piece of apple pie in a diner was always served with a slice of Swiss cheese.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 09:26 PM

SWISS????

In Wisconsin, it was Cheddar or nothing. But Swiss? That just isn't right, Neil?

;-)

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 11:08 PM

Try it with Manchego, aged at least 6 months.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Nov 15 - 11:49 PM

"Not even Wensleydale?"

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: PHJim
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 12:13 AM

I have a friend whose wife bakes the best apple pies I've ever tasted. The first time I tasted her pie, she asked, "Would you like some cheese with that?"
I said yes, and she served it with a slice of Kraft cheese. What a huge disappointment. Needless to say, I never asked her for cheese again. I agree with those who say Cheddar, preferably old and crumbly.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 12:55 AM

However, tastes in cheese vary; among individuals, and within one individual from time to time. I have on occasion married Emmenthal [which U-Guise Over There call simply Swiss for some reason] quite happily with apple pie to the great delectation of my own palate. Other times I have enjoyed Cheddar [proper English Cheddar, not any of those alien impostors which unconscionably snarl up the market!] with it But I would sometimes as soon have extra-double cream as cheese with the comestible specified -- purely a matter of choice on the occasion. Let us not, on this matter so indisputably de gustibus, indulge in that favourite Mudcat besetting sin of dogmatic over-prescriptivesness.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 06:31 AM

I think this is a north of England saying. I learnt it from my husband who was born in Beverley N Yorkshire. He actually hated cheese, but he told me it in the context of a hug WITH a squeeze.

I'd never heard of that saying or eaten fruit pie or cake with cheese in my London childhood. Though my father had another saying 'a tomato without salt is like kissing your sister' (no flavour)

I think different trees do well in different countries - or even areas. My orchard has very productive Bramleys, which sometimes last till April (if picked over) but taste best before Jan - so I give loads away. There is also a Granny Smith, our commercial grower friend said 'they must have seen you coming' when we said we'd planted it. It does fruit, but tastes nothing like the imported Grannies. But it stores well so I use it for cooking when the Bramleys and Kidds' are finished.

In England Bramley is the best cooker and Cox's Orange Pippin usually considered the best eater. Our friend had an orchard full of Cox, but it won't grow in my garden - the first we planted died, the second is still there but never fruits. But I do have a huge Kidd's Orange, which I think is even better. A good Cox flavour and really crisp as an eater. Nice taste cooked too - it doesn't 'fall' the way a Bramley does. It keeps (slightly wrinkled but OK for cooking) longer than the Bramley.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 07:42 AM

It was a saying known in London for all that, Mo. My mother who was born in Hoxton in 1909, was an inveterate quoter of it. Not sure why, because she never actually did serve apple-pie with cheese to my recollection. She just liked the jingle, which she had from her mother, apparently.

≈M≈

A slight brain-picking drift if I may, as you are obviously someone knowledgeable on the topic. What has become of the Worcester? For long my favourite apple, it seems to have vanished into the ewigkeit of late -- can't remember when I last found any for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 12:37 PM

Yes, and the pie recipe requested from me requires MacIntoshes but I couldn't find any so I will use Galas, is that a horrible mistake? I got talked out of the Braeburns... and I've used Granny Smiths, usually my pie apple, but for they are too tart for this particular pie. Help! I have a few hours to reshop if necessary!

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 23 Nov 15 - 08:48 PM

Also, how do you recapture control of a pie crust when it starts coming apart while you're rolling it, when it was perfectly well-behaved when you put it to cool?

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 08:11 AM

Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. Swiss cheese on apple pie. A disgrace. Someone call the food police.....

Vanilla ice cream or nothing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 03:34 PM

As a Canadian from Cheddar Heaven (i.e., Ontario), I have to say that I'm with Wesley on this.

Ice cream. There is no other way but naked.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 03:50 PM

MGM. If you can grow one: http://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/apple-trees/worcester-pearmain.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 04:05 PM

Anyone else for apple pie with evaporated milk?

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Nov 15 - 08:54 PM

This Thanksgiving ... I am changing up the traditional lattice-weave top on the heaping 5 kilo apple pie.

The lattice top will be woven with 0.5 kilo (full rasher) of bacon.

The bacon is dredged in maple syrup, salt, and flour before the traditional basket-weave.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The crust will be tradtional....(by weight) half as much lard as flour...half as much water as lard.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Nov 15 - 02:58 AM

Not being a huge fan of pastry, I prefer a crumble to a pie, but still enjoy it with a piece of Wensleydale. I make it either with Bramleys, of which I always have a glut, or with James Grieves, which are earlier than Bramleys but don't keep.

MGM, The Worcester Pearmain was the favourite of my late friend, the author and environmentalist, Roger Deakin, who, as a founder of Common Ground, created the idea of an Apple Day. It's no longer a popular commercial apple as it doesn't keep well. Like Mo, my favourite 'keeper' is Kidd's Orange Red or Darcy Spice, but I never get much of a crop of these where I live.

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 15 - 06:21 AM

Thanks leveller. In my case I didn't want Worcesters to keep; I ate them forthwith if not sooner!

Those self-regardingly authoritative·in·tone, patronising, not·to·be·gainsaid, posts, insisting on 'ice cream or nothing', 'no additives permissible', &c, are from pests of the sort I denounce above as suffering from galloping over-prescriptive-itis. If you don't like emmental with your apple pie, don't have it; if you'd rather have cheddar, or prefer ice cream to cream, then enjoy!; or if you prefer nothing at all then I hope it keeps fine for you. But before you arrogate ever again the right impertinently & dictatorially to command me as to how I am to be permitted to accompany my own pie, kindly do your utmost to take a vigorous running kick at your own buttocks, if you would be so good.

Thank you

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'An apple pie without some cheese'
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 15 - 01:31 PM

When we planted our Worcester (over 20 years ago) we read that it had a good flavour straight from the tree, but had been given a bad name by the tasteless 'woolly Worcesters' that the supermarkets stocked. At the time they were widely sold and kept for months in refrigeration. Almost as tasteless as supermarket Golden Delicious.
Yes it is fairly nice straight from the tree - but in September / October I'm busy eating James Grieve and Lord Lambourne (which do keep a few weeks after picking), plus a few Laxton's Exquisite and Laxton's Superb for variety (OK straight off the tree but hardly last as far as the house).